Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?
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Peace bro agent,
Np, G'nite and I'll look at the other post in the morning.
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Peace brother Agent
I found it very strange that you just keep posting masses of alleged contradictions without responding to the others who tried to help you out, at least say anything that indicate that you read it, anyway it is up to you to read it or not, but please be aware that you are contributing indirectly to a sick propaganda against your religion that you should be proud of, I?m not saying that you should not raise any concerns, in fact I encourage you to do, but the way you are doing it is no different to the enemy of your religion, I just thought I mention that to you as a brother, now I hate responding to masses of alleged Quran contradictions in one comment, this is silly indeed and only causes confusion and requires a lot of work, so I chose one of the alleged contradictions in your last comment to sister Nadia and will respond to it, of course I chose the easiest one that raised my eye brow which I responded to over a year ago somewhere but could not find my comment
WHY DOES THE BOOK OFTEN REPORT THE SAME EVENTS WITH VARIANT WORDING?
Mate, don?t you think if the story is repeated with the same exact words will be silly and nothing but a joke?
In fact, what you are questioning, is one of the great miracles of the Quran that I can see for years in this great book, simply saying the same story with different words is a clear challenge to all humans to find a contradiction, in addition to that you will always see that most likely a new piece of information is added when the story is repeated, from the whole repetitions we can come up with almost a complete story, and this is another miracle in the Quran
I chose Mary?s alleged contradiction because this is nothing but dust in thin air
MARY
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When THE ANGELS SAID O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
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She said My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
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And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.
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And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,
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And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her OUR SPIRIT and it assumed for her the likeness of A PERFECT MAN.
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She said Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art Allah-fearing.
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He said I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
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She said How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste?
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He said So (it will be). Thy Lord saith It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.
God bless you,
peace.Again, you failed to tell us how do you think the above may be a contradiction?, remember we don?t want something that is ?may be? we want a clear cut contradiction ?certain?, please bear this in mind, my job is not to make you believe in what the Quran verses say, my job is only to show you that the alleged contradiction can NOT be a clear cut contradiction because it is doubtful and can?t be admissible as an evidence.
I believe you mean the following, in the following verses we read the Quran is telling us that a group of angels visited Mary
Here is the verses in Arabic
(45)
(46)
(47)-> In 345 we read that a group of angels visited Mary ? When THE ANGELS SAID?, they actually were there to only tell her of a future event, this is clear from the Arabic word ?Yobashirik? , This ?Bushra?, ?The Good News? is ? O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah). ?, THERE IS NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER THAT THEIR MISSION WAS TO EXECUTE THIS GOOD NEWS FROM ALLAH, 347 and 348 are the rest of the supposed dialogue between the angels and Mary and again we see no indication that they came to execute this good news, rather to tell her what is about to happen in the near future.
The important note that I found is this, it seems the same very angels also visited Zachariah to give him another good news to his family, remember that Mary was living with Zachariah at this time, this visit was mentioned just a few verses earlier
37 So her Lord accepted her with a good acceptance and made her grow up a good growing, and gave her into the charge of Zakariya; whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food. He said O Marium! whence comes this to you? She said It is from Allah. Surely Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure.
38 There did Zakariya pray to his Lord; he said My Lord! grant me from Thee good offspring; surely Thou art the Hearer of prayer.
39 Then the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary That Allah gives you the good news of Yahya verifying a Word from Allah, and honorable and chaste and a prophet from among the good ones.
40 He said My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to me, and old age has already come upon me, and my wife is barren? He said even thus does Allah what He pleases.
41 He said My Lord! appoint a sign for me. Said He Your sign is that you should not speak to men for three days except by signs; and remember your Lord much and glorify Him in the evening and the morning.
42 And when the angels said O Marium! surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of of the world.
43 O Marium! keep to obedience to your Lord and humble yourself, and bow down with those who bow.
44 This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another.
45 When the angels said O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
-> Very clear bro that it is most likely the same angels who visited Zachariah at the same time, I agree it is not conclusive but there are two important points you have to consider
- She was living with Zachariah at that time ? whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food.? (337)
- Zachariah and Mary received ?good news? regrading their upcoming children
You have to also consider that there is nothing conclusive to suggest it was two different visits to both of them, I?m sure they met each in their own place but it sounds to me and according to the above verses that it was the same visit from the heaven to earth by the same angels
Now the enemy of Islam suggest that the above verses conflict with the following verses in which we read ONLY ONE ANGEL VISITING HER TO EXECUTE THE GOOD NEWS
(16)
(17)
(1
(19)
(20)
(21)
(22)Well, what can I say, the verses above clearly talks about different event than the one in 337-48, this event in 1916-21 is the future event that was told in 337-48
Let me prove it to you
In the earlier event we read ? whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food.? (337), so she was in the sanctuary and Zachariah was allowed to enter regularly and check on her
In 1916 we read?And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East?, i. logical e. she was in a chamber looking east where she withdrawn from her family, therefore Zachariah would have not been able to check on her as we read before, 1917 confirms that ? And had chosen seclusion from them?
In addition to that, in 346, Mary and Zachariah didn?t seem to be talking directly to the angels, because their replies were ?O Allah?..? as we read in 340&41 by Zachariah and in 347 by Mary when they responded to the good news said by the angels, it seems there is a secret and divine way in how the angels communicate with these righteous humans, I don?t really know but it is clear that their replies were to Allah not to the angels despite the angels were the ones who said the good news to them.
But in 1917 we see one angel that morphed into a human being and Mary was talking directly to him, in fact she was horrified when she saw him, we didn?t see this by Mary in the other earlier event in 345-48
Then We sent unto her OUR SPIRIT and it assumed for her the likeness of A PERFECT MAN.
Then she was horrified and talked directly to him
?She said Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art Allah-fearing.
Then he told her that his job was to execute the good news told to her before
?He said I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.?
PLEASE NOTE THAT IN HERE WE READ ? I am only a messenger of thy Lord?, but we didn?t read that in the other event by the angels neither to Zachariah nor to Mary, this clearly means it is a different event
She wondered again but this time she was serious because she mentioned that she has not been unchaste
?She said How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste??
compare the above ?Second wonder? in this event with the ?First wonder? in the earlier event in 347
?She said My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
She never mentioned not being unchaste in 347, because it was a future event that she might have thought will come through a normal connection between a man and woman according to Allah Will, but in 1920 ?the execution time? she worried that she will be called unchaste, and certainly the Jews did call her as such
Then the angel responded
?He said So (it will be). Thy Lord saith It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.?Then the angel executed the good news
?So she conceived him; then withdrew herself with him to a remote place.?
Totally different events, there is no question about it, we didn?t see a direct dialogue between Mary and the angels in the first event because she was responding back to Allah not to them, but in the second event she was clearly dialoguing to one angel in the shape of a man that scared her first
The enemy of the Quran are running crazy tey even compare apples with mangos, why not thinking who created the apples and mangos that they eat from the first place, I guess this is better for them than wasting the believers time
Again I have to say Danish words ?Slam Dunked?
Salam
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Peace AB,
I found it very strange that you just keep posting masses of alleged contradictions without responding to the others who tried to help you out, at least say anything that indicate that you read it, anyway it is up to you to read it or not
This is what happens when the other person...
(a) had no intention of learning or finding out the truth
(b) had a previous agenda (note one of my first posts to him was asking this very question)
(c) is here to preach his own religion or lack of
(d) all of the above.I commend your patience and perseverance to still answer the "contradictions" in detail, knowing they will not be adressed and that the other party will still claim you posted "nothing".
Peace be with you
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LUT
780. And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you?
781. Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.
782. And THE ANSWER OF HIS PEOPLE WAS NO OTHER THAN THAT THEY SAID TURN THEM OUT OF YOUR TOWN, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves).- And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you;
- What! do you come to the males and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies? BUT NOTHING WAS THE ANSWER OF HIS PEOPLE except that they said BRING ON US ALLAH'S PUNISHMENT, if you are one of the truthful.
Because the verses say ,nothing was the answer of his people except? then why is the answer in 782 different from 2929?
Peace brother Agent
I will respond to the above alleged contradiction that baffles you due to the reply of Lut?s people in 782 is different to the reply in 2929.
Let me bring the verses in Arabic so I can follow you
(80)
(81)
(82)In the above we read a dialogue between Lut and his people
Lut ?What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you??
Then Lutt added ? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.?
His people replied ?TURN THEM OUT OF YOUR TOWN, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves).?
In another location we read another dialogue
(2
(29)Here is the dialogue above
Lut ?Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you ?
Then Lut added ?What! do you come to the males and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies??
They replied ?BRING ON US ALLAH'S PUNISHMENT, if you are one of the truthful.?
Brother Agentxxx asked
Because the verses say ,nothing was the answer of his people except? then why is the answer in 782 different from 2929?
Ahmed says
Excuse me brother agent, this is another case of comparing Apples with Mangos, why you are suggesting that the two incidents are the same?
I don?t see them the same for two obvious reasons
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Do you think that Lut warmed his people ONLY ONCE?, of course not, he kept warning them all the time he spent within them, I?m sure you must agree, therefore why NOT the two dialogues above are from two different incidents that Allah told us about?, there is nothing to suggest that they are the same event, don?t you agree?
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In the first event what Lut said to his people was different to what he said in the second event, can you spot the difference?, well he accused them of homosexuality in both events BUT IN THE SECOND EVENT he accused them with another 2 crimes ? and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies?, this clearly indicates that it was another event, don?t you agree?
Now why you think when Allah said the following in the first event ?And THE ANSWER OF HIS PEOPLE WAS NO OTHER THAN THAT THEY SAID??.?, means that this is the only thing they said in every time Lut warned them?,
Excuse you man, what logic exactly those who said this non sense are following?, there is nothing wrong here, in the first event when he warned them of homosexuality their reply WAS NOTHING BUT ?blah blah?..?
In the second event when he accused them with further crimes , their reply WAS NOTHING BUT ?blah blah blah blah?..?
Do you get what I mean by ?WAS NOTHING BUT??
So why in hell the first ?blah blah?..? must be the same as the second ?blah blah blah blah ?..??, come on, the first accusation in the first event was different to the second accusation in the second event
Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?
Slam dunked, thank you Danish
Peace
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Peace AB,
I found it very strange that you just keep posting masses of alleged contradictions without responding to the others who tried to help you out, at least say anything that indicate that you read it, anyway it is up to you to read it or not
This is what happens when the other person...
(a) had no intention of learning or finding out the truth
(b) had a previous agenda (note one of my first posts to him was asking this very question)
(c) is here to preach his own religion or lack of
(d) all of the above.I commend your patience and perseverance to still answer the "contradictions" in detail, knowing they will not be adressed and that the other party will still claim you posted "nothing".
Peace be with you
Thank you dear brother
mu answer is (d)
it is a sacred duty man
Peace be with you
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Slam dunked, thank you Danish
Thanks bro for your lengthy "slam dunked" humorous mutations. You still didn't catch "agentxxx's" real concern, now did you, and went on a Blah Blah spree? Can you spot your own fallacy?
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Slam dunked, thank you Danish
Thanks bro for your lengthy "slam dunked" humorous mutations. You still didn't catch "agentxxx's" real concern, now did you, and went on a Blah Blah spree? Can you spot your own fallacy?
D
why don't you spot it and expose it?
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Peace AB,
the first accusation in the first event was different to the second accusation in the second event
Good catch and great posts. Keep 'em coming!
Additionally I must thank all the people in this thread who have posted refutations. These seem to be the same 'contradictions' posted on this forum and others countless times that have been refuted. Maybe the people concerned can search for them and post the refutation and the explanation given (if they claim the will to learn), and bring that in to be discussed if it is not satisfactory to them. Why it isn't would be a good start. I'm surprised that it doesn't happen, after all they've been here long enough.
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Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?
If I spot it, then your above statement in bold and the "good catch" thingy may turn the "snakes back to sticks". symbolism! Are you'll ready for that? (edit)
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Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?
If I spot it, then your above statement in bold and the "good catch" thingy may turn the "snakes back to sticks". symbolism!
Mate, please don't play the english language game with me, i'm not that native in english, i have to say i could not understand perfectly what you meant by the above statement, but look bro, i'm not challenging you, i'm only looking at the merit of the alleged quran contradictions posted by many, and your turn will come because i spot a comment by you in this thread but I didn't read it yet, sorry, too much to read, but i hadit flaged in my mind as long as the memory of my mind keeps holding, so as I said I'm not challenging you but it seems you want to challenge me which is fine man, please go for it, spot it then expose it, but I hope you try to be politically accurate because it seems you are talking on someone's else behalf based on assumptions
cheers
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Mate, please don't play the english language game with me, i'm not that native in english, i have to say i could not understand perfectly what you meant by the above statement,
Even natives in the english language will have a hard time reading that statement bro. It's not constructed accurately, maybe to add some level of 'witticism'?!? To clarify, I think they are trying to say-
'If I was to spot your fallacy, then your statement in bold along with the statement that you made previously in the same post, may reverse the proverbial "sticks to snakes". (Insert more 'wit' here)'.
This is not saying much at all unless they try.
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Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?
If I spot it, then your above statement in bold and the "good catch" thingy may turn the "snakes back to sticks". symbolism!
Mate, please don't play the english language game with me, i'm not that native in english, i have to say i could not understand perfectly what you meant by the above statement, but look bro, i'm not challenging you, i'm only looking at the merit of the alleged quran contradictions posted by many, and your turn will come because i spot a comment by you in this thread but I didn't read it yet, sorry, too much to read, but i hadit flaged in my mind as long as the memory of my mind keeps holding, so as I said I'm not challenging you but it seems you want to challenge me which is fine man, please go for it, spot it then expose it, but I hope you try to be politically accurate because it seems you are talking on someone's else behalf based on assumptions
Ahmed bro, please understand that people can accuse and vent out all they want (bears no effect on me) and I am very much aware of their own lamented yet slippery and deceptive minds barging in and supporting others with all sorts of fatwahs to incite belligerency and hostility. My views towards Quran has recently evolved to the point that it is an excellent read and yes it carries much wisdom, but only to the point of MAN'S WORKS and not GOD'S WORDS. With that said and man being fallible, I do see some problems. That's all.
Now coming to the "spotlight", I will have you concentrate on the red marked portions of agentxxx's concern rather than your etymological exegesis. We'll get to my previous unanswered post, no problem there. As a matter of fact, I found more stuff to it.
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Peace all. Here is a quote from phoenix which sums up the situation;
'Who said anything against quran? The problem with some people here is that whenever a question is asked regarding the quran that they dont have an answer to,or that the obvious answer(not necessarily right.) might make the quran look bad,they become defensive and emotional. If we want to truly learn from the quran,we need to learn to criticize it,and uphold its teachings on rational thought. Questioning the content of the quran or its authenticity is not wrong. Questioning leads to answers.'
I would add that if people never questioned they might still be following the 'hadith' they consider as outdated,'irrelevent' and corrupt...Do any of you remember the dogmatic,emotional,offensive outbursts you encountered when you questioned the validity,applicability and perfection of hadith? And the sectarian,insensitive attitude some people displayed when you asked them genuine questions about the hadith?
Also throwing verses about and cutting and pasting do not always prove your points...Some of the traditional sunnis quote loads of verses to justify the sunnah and their views,as did apple-pie...but you still disagree strongly with both these examples. Some of you seem to (not all.) base your 'faith' in the book on just that,...'faith'...this is fine,but then dont criticise christians who believe in the trinity on faith,or sunnis who believe the prophet explained the quran,and so say hadith are a valid divine source.(because of their faith.)
Peace all. -
Peace,
It's 345 am my time and I beg to be pardoned (not ducking out). I would love to have "agentxxx" on the line. Until then.....
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Salaam to you, Danish,
Some questions if you please vis-a-vis your statement My views towards Quran has recently evolved to the point that it is an excellent read and yes it carries much wisdom, but only to the point of MAN'S WORKS and not GOD'S WORDS. With that said and man being fallible, I do see some problems. That's all.
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What problems do you see with al-quraan?
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Is it possible that these problems, instead of being 'real', exist to your limited understanding of al-quraan itself?
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How do you classify something as 'man's works' ? If X claims to be from God, what is your criteria to reject this assertion and classify it as man's work?
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What should a book of God's words be like ?
thank you for your attention.
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Salam brother agentxxx
Let me take them in order and try to respond to the ones I haven?t resond to yet inshaallah, I will respond to the Noah's one
NOAH
2176. And Noah, when he cried of old, We heard his prayer and SAVED HIM AND HIS HOUSEHOLD from the great affliction.- And it sailed with them amid waves like mountains, and Noah cried unto his son - and he was standing aloof - O my son! Come ride with us, and be not with the disbelievers.
- He said I shall betake me to some mountain that will save me from the water. (Noah) said This day there is none that saveth from the commandment of Allah save him on whom He hath had mercy. And the wave came in between them, SO HE WAS AMONG THE DROWNED.
The enemy of Islam think that when Allah said in 2176 about Noah ?And Noah, when he cried of old, We heard his prayer and SAVED HIM AND HIS HOUSEHOLD from the great affliction?, which suggest that Noah and his family were saved, is contradicting 1143 where Allah said that Noah?s son was NOT saved but drowned ?He hath had mercy. And the wave came in between them, SO HE WAS AMONG THE DROWNED?
Let me bring the Arabic verse again so I can follow the above
(76)
-> In 2176 we read that Noah and his family ? ?, pronounced ?Wa Ahlahu? were saved from ? the great affliction?, but hold on, did the verse said ? ALL HIS FAMILY??, of course it didn?t, also if I say ?Me and my family?, would that mean every bloody member in my family?, it might be but again it may be NOT, UNLESS I SAY ?ME AND EVERY MEMBER OF MY FAMILY?
In 1143 we know that his son drowned, but the blind could not see that Allah excluded his son earlier, here it is in 1140
Until when Our command came and water came forth from the valley, We said Carry in it two of all things, a pair, and your own family?except those against whom the word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few.
(40)
-> See how they delebrtly never mention 1140 in their so called contradiction? Because Allah simple is telling Noah ? ?, ?Wa Ahlaka Ila Mn Sabaqa Alaihi Al Qawl?, i.e. ? and your own family?except those against whom the word has already gone forth?, IS CLEARLY EXCLUDING FROM HIS FAMILY WHOM THE WORD HAS ALREADY GONE FORTH., it didn?t directly say that his son will be excluded but at least it was said generally that some of his family will be excluded because the word has already gone forth against them., I?m sure Allah is excluding the ones who didn?t believe in Noah from his family, because Allah said straight after that. He will also save ? and those who believe. And there believed not with him but a few?
The blind also couldn?t see that Noah himself raised the same question with Allah and Allah clearly told Noah that his son WAS NOT ONE OF HIS FAMILY BUT A DISBELIEVER, let?s pick up the story at the final stages of the flood
44 And it was said O earth, swallow down your water, and O cloud, clear away; and the water was made to abate and the affair was decided, and the ark rested on the Judi, and it was said Away with the unjust people.
45 And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said My Lord! surely my son is of my family, and Thy promise is surely true, and Thou art the most just of the judges.
46 He said O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds, therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge; surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant
47 He said My Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from asking Thee that of which I have no knowledge; and if Thou shouldst not forgive me and have mercy on me, I should be of the losers.
(44)
(45)
(46)
(47)What can I say, this one needs a slam dunk before even I elaborate but let me save it for now
-> The flood water has receded ?And it was said O earth, swallow down your water, and O cloud, clear away; and the water was made to abate and the affair was decided, and the ark rested on the Judi, and it was said Away with the unjust people.?
-> Noah cried and raised the same question about his son with Allah ?And Nuh cried out to his Lord and said My Lord! surely my son is of my family, and Thy promise is surely true, and Thou art the most just of the judges.?
-> Allah is explaining to Noah that Noah is wrong because Allah excluded him earlier because HE WAS NOT ONE OF HIS FAMILY (METAPHORICALLY) ? ?, ?Inahu Laisa Min Ahlika?, ?He said O Nuh! surely he is not of your family; surely he is (the doer of) other than good deeds,?, then Allah warned Noah not to ask Him things that he has no knowledge of ?therefore ask not of Me that of which you have no knowledge; surely I admonish you lest you may be of the ignorant?. see how tough was the response? And the clarification from Allah regarding Noah?s son, this response is also for the ignorant who say this is a contradiction.
I hope those ignorant repent as Noah did after realizing his mistake ?He said My Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from asking Thee that of which I have no knowledge; and if Thou shouldst not forgive me and have mercy on me, I should be of the losers.?
And finally slam dunked, it?s getting boring
Salam
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Mate, please don't play the english language game with me, i'm not that native in english, i have to say i could not understand perfectly what you meant by the above statement,
Even natives in the english language will have a hard time reading that statement bro. It's not constructed accurately, maybe to add some level of 'witticism'?!? To clarify, I think they are trying to say-
'If I was to spot your fallacy, then your statement in bold along with the statement that you made previously in the same post, may reverse the proverbial "sticks to snakes". (Insert more 'wit' here)'.
This is not saying much at all unless they try.
Thanks for your go at it sister, but I'm still confused, if he spot a fallacy on my side then why he is not exposing it?, i will not show mercy if I sense fallacy from anyone indeed ) i think Danish is talking about Moses story somehow ???
Peace
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Ahmed bro, please understand that people can accuse and vent out all they want (bears no effect on me)
nor it bears any effect on myself
and I am very much aware of their own lamented yet slippery and deceptive minds barging in and supporting others
and myself is also aware
with all sorts of fatwahs to incite belligerency and hostility.
now here I have a problem, what the hell is belligerency?, sounds like pregnancy to me, are they from the same ROOT?, as well what fatwahs has to do with the quran contradiction exactly?, is responding to an alleged quran contradiction is a fatwah?
My views towards Quran has recently evolved to the point that it is an excellent read and yes it carries much wisdom,
of course it is, because it is from Allah not from a bunch of humans, it also took me years to realize its wisdom and superiority it is a time based sort of thing
but only to the point of MAN'S WORKS and not GOD'S WORDS.
that is a puzzle man, it can also be a typo, look it seems to me sort of you are comparing two things
MAN'S WORKS & GOD'S WORDS
well i can't see any sort of comaprison here unless the K is a D or the D is a K
but I see a relationship between the above two as is, this relation is simply MAN'S WORKS will be best if the man follows GOD'S WORDS
With that said and man being fallible, I do see some problems. That's all.
of course a man is fallible that is why for the BEST MAN"S WORKS we need GOD'S WORDS, "the perfect relationship between the fallible man and the perfect God"
Now coming to the "spotlight", I will have you concentrate on the red marked portions of agentxxx's concern rather than your etymological exegesis. We'll get to my previous unanswered post, no problem there. As a matter of fact, I found more stuff to it.
can't you just be bloody straighforward and show everypne how stupid i'm?
cheers
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Peace mquran. If you dont mind,i will answer your questions too.
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The problems are; literal undestandings being contradictory,harmful and not totally relevant to todays society. Incompleteness of the book. ( eg how do we implement 'simple' salat just from the book?..never mind a complete,peaceful political system.) Different versions of the book. Almost Impossible to verify/apply some simple passages literally because of conflicting historical reports about the context and circumstances of the verses. The book is sometimes unclear/obscure. The book cannot be totally understood clearly just by self-reference.(this last point is impossible to achieve by any book,all books need some reference from outside sources,otherwise you cant verify or compare it to anything to see if it is true,i made this last point to show the 'fallacy' of complete internal self-reference.)
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It is possible some of the 'problems' occur because of my misunderstandings,but not probable or possible that all of these problems can be blamed on every readers limited knowledge.(is there a reader with unlimited knowledge?)
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I would classify knowledge as being 'a mans work',when an open-minded reader continually cannot understand the relevance of certain passages,and cannot apply the simple verses that ask you to do certain duties(eg salat or zakat,etc...),even when asking/referring to others well-versed in life and the book. In other words totally failing to see what the book is saying or portraying in the so-called simple,clear,decisive(or muhkamat.) verses of the book. A mans work would also contain clearly incomplete or time/context based knowledge,as well as contradictions.
4)A book (not necessarily a physical one,but intrinsic to the soul or person,ie an internal book.) from god should be easily or eventually grasped by the sincere seeker. (and even partly understood by the insincere,non-seeker.) It should contain a solution or plan for every single situation any individual person faces,without exception. It should be available to all manking regardless of language,intellectual level,beliefs,age etc.. It should also be completely in tune with nature and the universe and 100% verifiable by all people.(even if they try to distort it,or dont want to follow it.) You should be able to verify any knowledge that comes to you(eventually.) with this 'book' or 'true criterion'.
The good news is that this 'divine book' already exists,always existed,and always will exist,and be available to all people,if they want it...
This book is your OWN UNIQUE DIVINE HEART... Your CONSCIENCE... View all knowledge/experiences through its genuine 'filter' and see how peaceful and enlightened you can be...This heart can grow if you feed it good deeds,or shrink if you feed it bad deeds...This 'heart' knows 'instinctively' what is 'good' or 'bad' for itself and others...Use it or 'lose' yourself... Happy feeding...
Peace all. -
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- The problems are; literal undestandings being contradictory,harmful and not totally relevant to todays society. Incompleteness of the book. ( eg how do we implement 'simple' salat just from the book?..never mind a complete,peaceful political system.)
So you think,,,Allah put all people in astray for 1000 years and you now are the right people to find a new innovation that salat was actually not prayer. After completing his Deen, Allah put all people to astray for 1000 years?
These stupid people also have to change all the meanings of quran to avoid prayer,,,,such as masjid and qibla.Do you have any historical evidences that prayer was actually not offered before in the age of prophet and it suddenly started??
And we were certainly dependant on the people of our history to transfer the MESSAGE. Otherwise you did not find the quran revelated to you... It was printed and transfered to you by those people who used to offer prayer 5 times a day.Also there is a mentioning in quran about 5 times prayer....Does that mean we implement policical system 5 times a day?
Come on!....dont give some stupid reason now.