Quran Only- What The Hadith Acceptors Misunderstand- The Myths
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As Salaam Alaikum,
I would like for this thread to be a general clarification of what "Quran Only" people believe. hopefully you all could add on to it.
Myth- Muslims Who Follow Quran Only Don't Belieive in Obeying The Messenger
Those who follow the Quran only do believe in obeying the Messenger! For goodness sakes, in the Quran it say to obey the Messenger! But we don't obey the Prophet through hadiths though. Instead we obey the Prophet Muhammad through what we read in the Quran.
For instance, if you read the Quran you would see that Allah did not directly tell people a number of things. Such as he did not directly tell women to cover themselves, he did not directly tell people to abstain from alchohol, and he also did not tell people to say certain things during salaat, INSTEAD he told the Prophet Muhammad to tell people these things. These are the things that many of us follow, therefore we ARE obeying the Messenger.
Myth- "Quran Only" means you seek no help or advice from anyone else concerning religious doctrine
WRONG.
"Quran only" is not about not seaking help or adivce from other people concerning religious doctrine. What it means is that the Quran is the ONLY religious authority.
We do NOT beleive that hadiths are meant to be followed because we do not believe that the Quran mandates them, therefore we do not follow them! Those of you who accept hadiths believe that they are, but we do not!
We do not accept "religious rules" when these rules cannot be found in the Quran, or when there is no logical reasoning to support a "rule" in the Quran.
ok that's all that I can think of for now.lol
salaam
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Peace sister
Good thread.
I'll add on a few
- Those who reject hadith only do so cause they are lazy and don't want to perform (insert random ritual/rule here)
I've found that most of us who do reject hadith only do so after years of reflection and sincere research/study to find the true deen. Not because we want to duck out of our duties but rather because we genuinely want to know what God wants of us. Far from taking the easy way out, this journey takes far more time/study/thought/reflection. Further, since we don't blindly imitate the scholars of the past, we have to "start fresh" for lack of a better phrase. For most of us, this takes a large paradigmatic shift in worldview and is anything but easy. We take nothing for granted and question everything. Again, none of this is easy or "lazy."
- Those who reject hadith hate/disrespect the Prophet
You hear this quite often. If you reject hadith which are attributed to the Prophet, you hate him. You don't only hear it with the Prophet; they'll say things like, "Aisha related this hadith, do you hate Aisha too? Do you think Aisha was lying?" This is all besides the point. Quite simply, we say that these accounts were later created and attributed to the Prophet. This is simple history. This is human nature. Far from disrespecting the Prophet, we believe we are bringing the deen back to the way Muhammad/Abraham/Moses/Jesus/etc. practiced it. We believe following these man-made accounts that were related in his name is what disrespects the Prophet and paints him in a negative light.
- Those who reject hadith simply don't know the real rules of Islam or have misunderstood what Islam is all about
I hear this a lot. Sunnis will assume those of us who reject hadith havent studied or simply speak from ignorance. They proudly show you verses like "Obey God and obey the Messenger" as if it's something we've never noticed.
- Those who reject hadith are trying to imitate Western culture
This idea manifests itself in different ways and is a variation of the 1st point I made. They think you are trying to be lazy and take the easy way out, which they see as Western ideals. To them, its not possible that you may interpret the Qur'an differently after much study. To them, it MUST be that you're someone who is lazy and who is not pious/faithful enough to follow the myriad rules/rituals of the true Islam.
That's all for now. I know there are plenty more.
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Hello,
To add more...
Those Who Reject Hadiths Are Actually Just Converts Who Want to Hold On To Their Non-Believing Ways
No, that's not true at all. There are PLENTY of hadith rejectors who come from Muslim family backgrounds, like myself. Many hadith rejectors have been Muslims all of their life, studied Islam, read, etc, etc and never could reconcile their belief in hadiths. These are people who have come from MUSLIM homes and have lived a traditional Muslim life for years. They know of plenty of hadiths themselves, and know what rules that you may live by.
salaam
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lolz@phoenix1. yous on da roll bro
Good thread started. I altso often hear that by rejecting hadith, im rejecting the Quran.
no its really simple actually. by rejecting hadith im rejecting hadith. tadaa.....
peace
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As Salaam Alaikum,
Salam sister
I found sone contradictions in the following
Myth- Muslims Who Follow Quran Only Don't Belieive in Obeying The Messenger
Those who follow the Quran only do believe in obeying the Messenger! For goodness sakes, in the Quran it say to obey the Messenger! But we don't obey the Prophet through hadiths though. Instead we obey the Prophet Muhammad through what we read in the Quran.
For instance, if you read the Quran you would see that Allah did not directly tell people a number of things. Such as he did not directly tell women to cover themselves, he did not directly tell people to abstain from alchohol, and he also did not tell people to say certain things during salaat, INSTEAD he told the Prophet Muhammad to tell people these things. These are the things that many of us follow, therefore we ARE obeying the Messenger.
The above in red means, the Quran alone accept some hadith, because it means Mohammad told us those things which were not in the Quran and consequently it should be followed, as well there are many things that the Quran alone don't follow which should be also considered alonge with the ones they follow.
Myth- "Quran Only" means you seek no help or advice from anyone else concerning religious doctrine
WRONG.
"Quran only" is not about not seaking help or adivce from other people concerning religious doctrine. What it means is that the Quran is the ONLY religious authority.
We do NOT beleive that hadiths are meant to be followed because we do not believe that the Quran mandates them, therefore we do not follow them! Those of you who accept hadiths believe that they are, but we do not!
We do not accept "religious rules" when these rules cannot be found in the Quran, or when there is no logical reasoning to support a "rule" in the Quran.
The above in red also means the Quran alone accept some hadith, because it means when there is a logical reaosn to support it then it should be accepted
Salam
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Those who follow the Quran only do believe in obeying the Messenger! For goodness sakes, in the Quran it say to obey the Messenger! But we don't obey the Prophet through hadiths though. Instead we obey the Prophet Muhammad through what we read in the Quran.
Then Allah should had said to obey quran. Why refering to prophet? when Quran was the original source???
If there is some law in country....and you go there...Everybody will say "obey the law",,,Nobody will say obey the a policemen.
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peace
You made some good points Noprogressive. I would like to add something to those two things
All "Hadith rejecters" accept Rashad Khalifa's doctrine.
they dont.sorry for such a long explanation.
They accept Rashad Khalif's doctrine ,,,except number 19 and his prophethood claim. They inspired more from that fake prophet and believed his teachings/idologies more than any other person.
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Peace,
To rectify things. The Quran alone movement didn't start with Rashad Khalifa. It got a new boost, but he didn't start it. I have a book at home from a Muslim scholar, that explains the different sects inside islam, this book is written in the 1950's. This mentiones the Quran-alone movement 30 years before Rashad. It ends with; "Although the differences there was always one consensus, that is ofcourse the Quran. As there also always has been one small group who followed the Quran alone from the beginning of Islam and don't accept any authority besides it for their religion."
Maybe this site, evolved out of the boost Rashad gave, he certainly wasn't the founder of the Quran alone interpretation. And VE, he didn't claim to be a prophet, prophet's brings books, messengers don't. And we get our knowledge for our concepts from the Quran itself, you never here people quote Rashad or anyone except Quran. You approach the Quran from the Hadith scholars point of view, while we approach from the Quran itself.
Peace
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peace
You made some good points Noprogressive. I would like to add something to those two things
All "Hadith rejecters" accept Rashad Khalifa's doctrine.
they dont.sorry for such a long explanation.
They accept Rashad Khalif's doctrine ,,,except number 19 and his prophethood claim. They inspired more from that fake prophet and believed his teachings/idologies more than any other person.
Hence 'myth'.
When I came to my current position regarding the Qur'an and Hadith, I never heard of Rashad Khalifa. So apparently people didn't need to follow RK to get to this conclusion.
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Peace cavemandoctor and all. If you substitute the word 'quran' in the place of 'hadith' in your 4 points,i believe its still valid. Being peaceful (muslim.) does not always mean following a 'specific book'. Being peaceful can be achieved by using your intelligence in dealing with others... What 'specific' books did adam,noah and abraham have?
peace all. ps;i dont 'reject' all of the quran,just as i dont reject all of the hadith,or all science...I try to 'reject' immoral illogic... -
Peace all,
Those who follow the Quran only do believe in obeying the Messenger! For goodness sakes, in the Quran it say to obey the Messenger! But we don't obey the Prophet through hadiths though. Instead we obey the Prophet Muhammad through what we read in the Quran.
Then Allah should had said to obey quran. Why refering to prophet? when Quran was the original source???
If there is some law in country....and you go there...Everybody will say "obey the law",,,Nobody will say obey the a policemen.
As I remember the verses that refer to "obey the messenger" are not specifically talking about Muhammad. They refer to the messengership given to key people, so those who call themselves Muslims must obey the messenger given to them by obeying their respective books. The Quran doesn't say "obey the quran," b/c each community did not have the Quran, they had other books.
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Salaamun alaikum
As I remember the verses that refer to "obey the messenger" are not specifically talking about Muhammad. They refer to the messengership given to key people, so those who call themselves Muslims must obey the messenger given to them by obeying their respective books. The Quran doesn't say "obey the quran," b/c each community did not have the Quran, they had other books.
Al-Quraan enjoins obedience to ar-rasool. (4/59)
Ar-rasool's mission centres upon al-kitaab, THE book (not books). (3/164).
Ar-rasool also judges by al-kitaab (5/49)
Al-quraan is tafseel/detailing of al-kitaab (10/37)
Therefore any messenger who operates his mission during the existence of al-quraan must command, judge and follow al-quraan.
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peace noprogressive and all,
my mother tells me that your "quran alone" movement is unsuccessful because you are uncertain about praying towards the masjid-ul-haram(the k'aaba). my reply is that by saying that the METHOD of salat found in the quran is also a way of saying that the quran is not complete, fully-detailed and hadith adds on the quran. if the quran is complete, how to perform salat is not fully described in the quran because allah doesn't tell us to PRAY facing the sanctuary if you see verse (2256) it never says in the qura that you would be punshed for not praying the traditional salat because the traditional salat comes from the hadith not the quran.
my confusion is that if some of you say that salat should not be performed the traditional way then why in the quran allah addresses "O you who believe, if you rise to attend the contact-method, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative."(56)? why allah tells us to pray "u'doo/wash certain parts of the body" before performing salat? is the hadith completely wrong? is part of it right? are the sayings of the prophet directly from the quran? what about the month of ramadhan? the reason why i ask so many questions is because one day i know when i go back to my religios place of "bangladesh" my imam will ask me why...? my reply will be so weak and ineffevtive that i feel that society will reject me...
i feel that's the beginning of a new problem...
peace, rifat
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Peace,
Mr.humble, firstly, instead of asking it only on the forum, i recommend you to raed the sites articles which all your questions. You haven't done so, otherwise you wouldn't have asked this, and if you need more direct conversation, i suggest we can chat on msn or skype
on skype i'm arnoldyasin
Please read the articles about salat by Edip, i agree with it, except facing the Kaaba, as God is everywhere.
Peace
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peace noprogressive and all,
my mother tells me that your "quran alone" movement is unsuccessful because you are uncertain about praying towards the masjid-ul-haram(the k'aaba). my reply is that by saying that the METHOD of salat found in the quran is also a way of saying that the quran is not complete, fully-detailed and hadith adds on the quran. if the quran is complete, how to perform salat is not fully described in the quran because allah doesn't tell us to PRAY facing the sanctuary if you see verse (2256) it never says in the qura that you would be punshed for not praying the traditional salat because the traditional salat comes from the hadith not the quran.
my confusion is that if some of you say that salat should not be performed the traditional way then why in the quran allah addresses "O you who believe, if you rise to attend the contact-method, then wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles; and if you have had intercourse, then you shall bathe. And if you are ill, or traveling, or you have excreted feces, or you have had sexual contact with the women, and you could not find water, then you shall select from the clean soil; you shall wipe your faces and your hands with it. God does not want to make any hardship over you, but He wants to cleanse you and to complete His blessings upon you that you may be appreciative."(56)? why allah tells us to pray "u'doo/wash certain parts of the body" before performing salat? is the hadith completely wrong? is part of it right? are the sayings of the prophet directly from the quran? what about the month of ramadhan? the reason why i ask so many questions is because one day i know when i go back to my religios place of "bangladesh" my imam will ask me why...? my reply will be so weak and ineffevtive that i feel that society will reject me...
i feel that's the beginning of a new problem...
peace, rifat
The Matter starts from the assumption or thinking that
Hadith is additional to Quran. And prophet only said what is said in quran.
If Hadith is needed then quran is incomplete.
If quan is incomplete then our faith lost.To just jeject the need of Ahadith, Quran only believer has to prove that quran is complete, to prove that quran is complete, he has to change the every verse interpretation which in any means tell to pray similar to traditional manner. He has to change the meaning of Qibla, Masjid, Masjid-ul-Haram, angles. He has to prove that the order of Allah to follow the prophet is actually indirectly saying that to follow Allah actuallly.
The wrong assumption starts when you say Ahadith are additional to quran and contradictory.
Actually all problem of completeness of Quran and Ahadith is solved when we read the verses about to follow the prophet as it is "that we should follow prophet".
When some book is written then it contains some background knowledge also, some further reading reference also, those further readings are not actually something additional or contradictory But the detailed explanation for the reader. so, Along all direct orders, Allah says follow prophet, so when we follow prophet also...that means quran is completing itself. Ahadith are the classnotes of the text book (Quran).
If Allah would mention each and everything in Quran then it would be consisting of thousands of volumes unable to be handled by human beings. so the solution process was, Quran+Sunnah+Fiqh.
Quran the divine revelation.
Sunnah the detalied workshop.
Fiqh for the futuristic inventions and matters.For just one example
If some muslim says I think blood transer to other person is ok according to Islam.
Other would say according to my understanding its not ok.
Third person would say something else.so no way of uniting muslims, as every muslim will have its own interpretation.
Now where the solution to this problem is in Quran, How? Quran says follow prophet and prophet says if there will be something in future about which you will not have direct instruction the you will do "Ijtihaad".
Other wise there is no way for muslims to unite.
Sincerely,
VirtualEye. -
Peace,
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To just jeject the need of Ahadith, Quran only believer has to prove that quran is complete, to prove that quran is complete, he has to change the every verse interpretation which in any means tell to pray similar to traditional manner. He has to change the meaning of Qibla, Masjid, Masjid-ul-Haram, angles. He has to prove that the order of Allah to follow the prophet is actually indirectly saying that to follow Allah actuallly.Change meaning? VE, maybe the original meaning was changed by the hadith, ever thought of that? And you haven't understood the difference between following the prophet, and following reports written down 200 years later. There is a big difference between those two.
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When some book is written then it contains some background knowledge also, some further reading reference also, those further readings are not actually something additional or contradictory But the detailed explanation for the reader. so, Along all direct orders, Allah says follow prophet, so when we follow prophet also...that means quran is completing itself. Ahadith are the classnotes of the text book (Quran).But you don't have proof the Hadith are to be trusted. You just assume they are to be trusted, that is the argument. As Quran says itself it is complete.
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If Allah would mention each and everything in Quran then it would be consisting of thousands of volumes unable to be handled by human beings. so the solution process was, Quran+Sunnah+Fiqh.This is contradicting, because first you say God didnt mention everything in the Quran, because otherwise it would be thousands of volumes, and then you say He did say all those things and it is spread out in thousands of volumes......
And secondly, why do you believe all those details are neccesary? You are demanding the exact same thing as the people of Moses with the calf. Asking and waisting your time on trivial details. And by thus losing reason and progress.
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Quran the divine revelation.
Sunnah the detalied workshop.
Fiqh for the futuristic inventions and matters.Funny as the Quran, only says the prophet was given Quran, and the prophet will only complain people has deserted the Quran (2530) And you and other people say we must follow the prophet, by following thousands of books, all made by man, that rely on reports based on hear-say written 200 years later. And were forbidden with the first rulers, as they were burned every time.
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For just one example
If some muslim says I think blood transer to other person is ok according to Islam.
Other would say according to my understanding its not ok.
Third person would say something else.so no way of uniting muslims, as every muslim will have its own interpretation.
Now where the solution to this problem is in Quran, How? Quran says follow prophet and prophet says if there will be something in future about which you will not have direct instruction the you will do "Ijtihaad".
First, we must this decision on scientifical rules and ethics of the goodness of the deed, which will give enough indications if it is for the better or not. This cannot be judged on books written in the middle-ages.
As by thus all the scholars will, and are now differing on this. So your pretentious argument that fiqh will solve this is ignorant, as now still all scholars differ on organ-transplantation and blood-transfusion.That is why it only can be a scientifical and ethical matter, which the Quran says easy enough, that we must do the best for society.
Peace
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peace arnoldyasin,virtualeye,
i have several more questions.
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you see not all the "important" members of this site have the same opinion because their opinion is affected by their view of life. their knowledge of the scripture is therefore is not the same. how did i arrived with this conclusion? t found a verse in the quran that is directly telling the believers that when we recite the scripture, we provide a barrier amongst you and those who do not believe(sorry for not citing)... this led me to think why even if someone has "mastered" the quran has different opinions because that is his/her reflection of life.
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when i said to one of my friends, "i believe there is no need of hadith, because everything is detailed in the scripture and etc..." his reply was oh yeah, the quran is confusing because every time god mentions a command he says "WE" not "I" thus implying god is plural rather than singular... i couldn't reply to his question because he caught me off guard.
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quote from edip yuksel's article
To observe prayer one must make ablution (443; 56). Ablution is nullified only by sexual intercourse or passing urine or defecation. Ablution remains valid even if one has passed gas, shaking hands with the opposite sex, or a woman is menstruating. A menstruating woman may observe contact prayers, contrary to superstitious cultural beliefs (56; 2222; 6114-115).
what part of the quran tells youablution is nulified only by sexual intercourse or passing urine or defacation? what part of the quran tells you ablution remains valid even if one has passed gas, shaking hands with the oppsite sex? i agree with the menstration prayer for women because it is supported by the scripture...
brother arnoldyasin, i have read about every salat article even before i registered in this site. in fact i conducted a brief mental study on the "positions" of the people in this forum using the criterion. my mother and my family was shocked by the knowledge i had obtained because i used the criterion to simply tell them that the purpose of the quran is to improve your character and know god.. that is why i was ignorant of the salat because i felt that salat was a medium for acheiving those goals and they lost to my argument on that one! simply, i quit this forum for about a month or so because my family urged me to "rifat, concentrate on your studies, study islam when you retire or something" that statement makes no sense to me because my life-long passion about learning the ways of god is nullified by their command (if i follow it).
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arnoldyasin, did you know that there was another member in this forum that states "salat = reading". can't you wonder, if everyone here is following "GOD ALONE" then why arnn't they certain on what they are propagating why can't they be unified? my conclusion is either they have limited knowledge on the quran or the languge of the quran itself is somewhat confusing to them
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what verse in the quran tells people to interpret the quran any way they want? you view the "ant story" differently because your viewpoint changed from the knowedge you have obtained... while others feel it is only an allegory... do you understand the one point i am tryin gto get across from all this?
in my opinion, the quest for certainty and truth supercedes the directive from god of performing the salat...
peace, rifat
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