Is Jesus Coming Back?

viartualeye

Salaam Alleikum Virtual Eye

3144 Muhammad is no more than an apostle many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.

575 Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

5116 And behold! God will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" He will say "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

5117 "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

Virtual Eye I believe you have more knowledge of Qur'an than me. Why would Allah ask Prophet Isa on judgement day if Prophet Isa is alive and sitting with Him in the heaven? Why Prophet Isa has to come and clarify that he is not the son of God? Are Allah words not good enough to believe that Prophet Isa was not the son of God. Why not ask these question if he has to come to earth second time?

The Verse 3144 was revealed in the context of Battle of Uhed. This was the battle in which Muslims archers has done a great mistake and due to that Muslims got a very big loss of lives.
I dont remember the complete explanation of it...

But both of verses 3144 and 575 mention the messengers in past. There is no word in arabic in these verses which tells that all passed away, The used of words "Passed Away" is only in english which puts the reader to misconception if it has something to do with death. There is no word in arabic in these verses which has any meaning related to death.

Secondly if we assume for the sake of argument, that "passed away" here means death. Even then both of these verses tell "Many Messengers" not "All".

The verse 5116 is depicting the situation at the time of Judgment day. One meaning which people can bring out,,,that if Jesus will come back and will already have told the christians that God is alone and he is not son of God, then why would Allah ask Jesus on judjment day?
The answer is simple,,,,,What about those christians who lived and died before the coming back of Jesus??? Certainly Allah will ask Jesus for those christains who lived in falsehood and died in falsehood.

In Arabic the word that is translated in some translations of this verse as "You have caused me to die" is tawaffa and comes from the root wafa - to fulfil. Tawaffa does not actually mean "death" but the act of "taking the self back" either in sleep, in death or as in the case of Jesus being taken back into the presence of God. From the Qur'an again, we understand that "taking the self back" does not necessarily mean death. For instance, it can mean "taking back the self while one is asleep," as indicated in the following verses

006.060
It is He Who takes you back to Himself at night, while knowing the things you perpetrate by day, and then wakes you up again, so that a specified term may be fulfilled. (Surat al-An'am, 660)

039.042
God takes back people's selves when their death arrives and those who have not yet died, while they are asleep . He keeps hold of those whose death has been decreed and sends the others back for a specified term. (Surat Az-Zumar, 3942)

I hope you can understand now that word Yawaffa or Mutawwafika does mean death but taking back in any form,,,whether i case of death or sleep or raising,,,,

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Why Prophet Isa has to come and clarify that he is not the son of God?

There are two reasons of his coming back.
1- He will come back to negate the false things associated to him,,,like he is son of god etc.
2- In quran it is said that every Nafs (living thing) will taste the death. Since he is alive, so he has to come to earth and pass his rest of life and die as other humans in this world.

Quote

Are Allah words not good enough to believe that Prophet Isa was not the son of God.

It is the manner of Allah that he will ask the humans even he knew all. He will make the people witness and make the messengers witness. Now why is that?

Have a look at this following verses to understand the attitude of Allah

025.017
025.017 The day He will gather them together as well as those whom they worship besides Allah, He will ask "Was it ye who let these My servants astray, or did they stray from the Path themselves?"

025.018
025.018 They will say "Glory to Thee! not meet was it for us that we should take for protectors others besides Thee But Thou didst bestow, on them and their fathers, good things (in life), until they forgot the Message for they were a people (worthless and) lost."

Al-Qur'an, 025.017-018 (Al-Furqan )

050.030
050.030 One Day We will ask Hell, "Art thou filled to the full?" It will say, "Are there any more (to come)?"

Al-Qur'an, 050.030 (Qaf )

For the people who only consider the examples of this world

Consider if a Judge in the court himself had seen a person doing murder. When that person will be brought to court then judge will not just declare his death panalty in single sentence,,,,Instaed he will declare that this person did this and that and that and will ask why did he do murder.......So that people will become witness.

In case of Allah, even he is full authority,,,but he will make it witness to the people also, to show that how is his Absolute justice (Even he does not "need" to show us if he decides anything.).

Sincerely,
VirtualEye

unknownuser

Peace VE

I tend to diagree with you regarding the word Tawafa, it only means to cause to die, every single instance in the Quran means as such except the one regarding sleep, but you are missing very important points

Sleep is a type of death, compeare the two and I'm sure you will reach this conclusion
For Jesus to be dead, does not mean Allah can't bring him back, in fact Allah did the same with Prophet Uzair

so don't do the same that you accuse the Quran Alone with which is changing the literal meaning of the word to suit your understanding

Salam

viartualeye

Peace VE

I tend to diagree with you regarding the word Tawafa, it only means to cause to die, every single instance in the Quran means as such except the one regarding sleep, but you are missing very important points

Sleep is a type of death, compeare the two and I'm sure you will reach this conclusion
For Jesus to be dead, does not mean Allah can't bring him back, in fact Allah did the same with Prophet Uzair

so don't do the same that you accuse the Quran Alone with which is changing the literal meaning of the word to suit your understanding

Salam

Please go to those links which I provided in previous replies, because that scholar is much more knowledgeable than me. I am not a scholar and neither I have time to answer everyone, but I can refer the right source where 99% people are convinced by the debate of Islamic scholar.

VirtualEye.

unknownuser

Peace VE

I tend to diagree with you regarding the word Tawafa, it only means to cause to die, every single instance in the Quran means as such except the one regarding sleep, but you are missing very important points

Sleep is a type of death, compeare the two and I'm sure you will reach this conclusion
For Jesus to be dead, does not mean Allah can't bring him back, in fact Allah did the same with Prophet Uzair

so don't do the same that you accuse the Quran Alone with which is changing the literal meaning of the word to suit your understanding

Salam

Please go to those links which I provided in previous replies, because that scholar is much more knowledgeable than me. I am not a scholar and neither I have time to answer everyone, but I can refer the right source where 99% people are convinced by the debate of Islamic scholar.

VirtualEye.

Peace bro

I visited the urls you sent me and was very interesting, thanks, but again, I'm only using the Quran and my nativity in the Arabic language to understand the Quran, the word "Motawafika" means that the soul comes out of his body, either put to sleep, or put to death, if he has to come back then fine, Allah will put the soul back in his body and send him to earth again, what is wrong with that bro?

what I see is wrong, that you change the clear meaning of the word "Motawafika" that was repeated many times in the Quran and only meant to cause to die or cause to sleep, in both cases the soul comes out of the body as it happned to Jesus

Peace

viartualeye

Peace VE

I tend to diagree with you regarding the word Tawafa, it only means to cause to die, every single instance in the Quran means as such except the one regarding sleep, but you are missing very important points

Sleep is a type of death, compeare the two and I'm sure you will reach this conclusion
For Jesus to be dead, does not mean Allah can't bring him back, in fact Allah did the same with Prophet Uzair

so don't do the same that you accuse the Quran Alone with which is changing the literal meaning of the word to suit your understanding

Salam

Please go to those links which I provided in previous replies, because that scholar is much more knowledgeable than me. I am not a scholar and neither I have time to answer everyone, but I can refer the right source where 99% people are convinced by the debate of Islamic scholar.

VirtualEye.

Peace bro

I visited the urls you sent me and was very interesting, thanks, but again, I'm only using the Quran and my nativity in the Arabic language to understand the Quran, the word "Motawafika" means that the soul comes out of his body, either put to sleep, or put to death, if he has to come back then fine, Allah will put the soul back in his body and send him to earth again, what is wrong with that bro?

what I see is wrong, that you change the clear meaning of the word "Motawafika" that was repeated many times in the Quran and only meant to cause to die or cause to sleep, in both cases the soul comes out of the body as it happned to Jesus

Peace

Ok,,,,Jesus must be sleeping. But did NOT die. ok now? Happy Ending.

unknownuser

Peace VE

I tend to diagree with you regarding the word Tawafa, it only means to cause to die, every single instance in the Quran means as such except the one regarding sleep, but you are missing very important points

Sleep is a type of death, compeare the two and I'm sure you will reach this conclusion
For Jesus to be dead, does not mean Allah can't bring him back, in fact Allah did the same with Prophet Uzair

so don't do the same that you accuse the Quran Alone with which is changing the literal meaning of the word to suit your understanding

Salam

Please go to those links which I provided in previous replies, because that scholar is much more knowledgeable than me. I am not a scholar and neither I have time to answer everyone, but I can refer the right source where 99% people are convinced by the debate of Islamic scholar.

VirtualEye.

Peace Brother VE

I just finished part 2 of the debate by Dr Naik about Was Jesus Really Crucified, I have to say this is the first time I have seen him talking and I liked him and agree with all what he said EXCEPT one thing, as well, I will tend to disagree with you regarding classifying a scholar as knowledgeable because we have to specify first knowledgeable in what?, in the language?, or the Bible or the meaning of the Quran verses?, I believe Dr Naik is great and I beg to have his knowledge and memory but he will never reach my knowledge regarding the Arabic language with my total respect to him and his achievement at the young age of 33 , he reminded me with Ahmed Deddat but I found him easier to understand than A. D., any way what I disagree with Dr Naik is clear and obvious in fact I believe he will never be able to refute that if you can pass it to him, I don?t really have time to contact him as well the matter is not that vital in the Islamic belief, in the debate part 2 when Dr Naik was asked, where is Jesus now?, he responded that the Quran said that Allah raised Jesus ALIVE, now I challenge anyone to show me where the word ?ALIVE? in the Arabic text appeared, I?m sure no one will find it, let?s have a look at the following verse

YUSUFALI Behold! Allah said ?O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.?

PICKTHAL (And remember) when Allah said ?O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.?

SHAKIR And when Allah said ?O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.?

RASHAD KHALIFA Thus, GOD said, ?O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.?
{The Quran ; 355}

(55)

-> It is obvious to me that Rashad Khalifa translation to that specific verse was the most accurate one, despite his other non sense, he was a native Arabic speaker and he knew what the word ?Motawafika? means.

-> What is striking is this, the Arabic verse is clear, Allah said to Jesus "Inni Motawafika Wa Rafe'ak", If Motawafika means ?TAKE BACK TO HIM?, then what ?Rafe?ak? suppose to mean exactly?, well we know that ?Rafe?ak?, means raise you, which means take you, but this was after "Mutowafika" and a Waw is in between. like Al Kitab Wa Al Kikmah (two different things remember?), those Sunni Muslims who promote this second return of Jesus as a matter of concrete fact are really exposing their hypocrisy for the following reasons that they did while gathering the made up concrete evidences

They added a word to the Quran that does not exist ?Alive?
They changed the obvious and clear meaning of the word ?Motawafika? that was used many times in the Quran to mean only one thing ?souls will exit the body either short periods during sleep or long periods during death" and that is what Allah did to Jesus, , "Inni Motawafika Wa Rafe'ak" as He told us clearly, He caused him to die first ?not on the cross? then He raised his dead body up to the heaven. Now, if Allah wants to send Jesus back, I have no problem with that, Allah can simply put his soul back to the body and send him back to earth for whatever mission(s) as He did with prophet Uzair and I'm sure many others, like Ahal Al Kahf when thye were put to sleep "Their souls existed their bodies", then 300 years or so later their souls were sent back to their bodies and they waked up, there is nothing that is impossible on Allah

What the Sunni are doing is not much difference from the Quran Alone if you ask me

Salam

unknownuser

Brother VE, please note that my last comment was posted after you posted your last comment, if I have read it I would not post it

Yes I can accept that Jesus was put to sleep like Ahal Al Kahf

Peace

KGB

Salaam Ahmed Bahgat

I found this verse and according to my understanding that Allah will create the new universe just like the which He created the first one.

21104The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one a promise We have undertaken truly shall We fulfil it.

unknownuser

Salaam Ahmed Bahgat

I found this verse and according to my understanding that Allah will create the new universe just like the which He created the first one.

21104The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one a promise We have undertaken truly shall We fulfil it.

relevance?

thegod

arnoldyasin wrote
I see you have read the book i posted, and no, Jesus is not coming back. No one can refute the arguments given in that book.

arnoldyasin wrote
The most correct meaning of the word "wafat" is death.

i dont know why the author of the stuff u posted ignores souls being taken away during sleep...it really is surprising how somebody writes such a lengthy exposition (not u...the author) talking about intentional abuse of a word and himself indulges in it! -)

and the root word...if anybody really likes going into roots rather than fixed titles...does not come anywhere near implying death by itself! -S

KGB

Salaam Ahmed Bahgat

I found this verse and according to my understanding that Allah will create the new universe just like the which He created the first one.

21104The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one a promise We have undertaken truly shall We fulfil it.

relevance?

Mind your own business. You are not Ahmed Baghat.

thegod

ahmedbahgat wrote
What is striking is this, the Arabic verse is clear, Allah said to Jesus "Inni Motawafika Wa Rafe'ak", If Motawafika means TAKE BACK TO HIM, then what Rafeak suppose to mean exactly?, well we know that Rafeak, means raise you, which means take you, but this was after "Mutowafika" and a Waw is in between.

i see what u mean there...but the root wafa means to complete..fulfill....and seems to possibly have some sort of covenant to go along with it...i have not really gone through this as thoroughly as i would have liked so i will just post the verses to give u an idea of what i am trying to say

240 O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and be faithful to (your) covenant with Me, I will fulfill (My) covenant with you; and of Me, Me alone, should you be afraid.

so does any covenant really play any part when v talk about souls and tawaffa...i think so.....

7 172 And when your Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their backs, their descendants, and made them bear witness against their own souls Am I not your Lord? They said Yes! we bear witness. Lest you should say on the day of resurrection Surely we were heedless of this.

7 173 Or you should say Only our fathers associated others (with Allah) before, and we were an offspring after them Wilt Thou then destroy us for what the vain doers did?

so each soul does have this knowledge it seems...so on fulfillment of the time which a soul is allowed it may not claim to be uninformed!

infact makes sense that even ajar...punishment or mercy is a part of covenant and fulfillment

860 Every soul will taste death, and you will be recompensed your dues on the Day of Resurrection. Whoever is swayed from the Fire and entered into Paradise, he has indeed won. This worldly life is nothing more than the enjoyment of vanity.

so mutwaffika and rafiuka need not be understood as implying the same thing! -)

unknownuser

ahmedbahgat wrote
What is striking is this, the Arabic verse is clear, Allah said to Jesus "Inni Motawafika Wa Rafe'ak", If Motawafika means ?TAKE BACK TO HIM?, then what ?Rafe?ak? suppose to mean exactly?, well we know that ?Rafe?ak?, means raise you, which means take you, but this was after "Mutowafika" and a Waw is in between.

i see what u mean there...but the root wafa means to complete..fulfill....and seems to possibly have some sort of covenant to go along with it...i have not really gone through this as thoroughly as i would have liked so i will just post the verses to give u an idea of what i am trying to say

Without the verses bro, I agree with you regarding wafa, but again it may be fulfilling the life term appointed to Jesus, but really mate I think the root for Mutawafika is ?Ta Wa Fa?, not ?Wa Fa Ya?, not entirely positive and I will need to confirm that later, and to be accurate Wa Fa Ya means to be truthful, ?Ta Wa Fa? is the one that means fulfil

240 O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I bestowed on you and be faithful to (your) covenant with Me, I will fulfill (My) covenant with you; and of Me, Me alone, should you be afraid.

so does any covenant really play any part when v talk about souls and tawaffa...i think so.....

According to the context in 240 is ?Wa Fa Ya?, pronounced as wafa, it means to be truthful, I?m not positive that it means fulfil really, it needs further study

7 172 And when your Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their backs, their descendants, and made them bear witness against their own souls Am I not your Lord? They said Yes! we bear witness. Lest you should say on the day of resurrection Surely we were heedless of this.

7 173 Or you should say Only our fathers associated others (with Allah) before, and we were an offspring after them Wilt Thou then destroy us for what the vain doers did?

so each soul does have this knowledge it seems...so on fulfillment of the time which a soul is allowed it may not claim to be uninformed!

I don?t know man, you got me lost here, please elaborate please

infact makes sense that even ajar...punishment or mercy is a part of covenant and fulfillment

I believe it is part of the convent ?Ahd? or ?Waad?, but I?m not sure that it is part of the fulfilment , I always understood Wa Fa Ya as being truthful, in fact Abraham was described as such

(37)

Mate it seems that fulfilling something may mean being truthful?, it is very close and I can accept that, the proplem for me in 5337 that you have to add extra words to translate Wafa to fulfilment, this is clear from all the following 3 translation

YUSUFALI And of Abraham who fulfilled his engagements?-
PICKTHAL And Abraham who paid his debt
SHAKIR And (of) Ibrahim who fulfilled (the commandments)

While the Arabic verses is only 4 words, so I see it as

And Abraham who was truthful

But I can accept both, because the two meaning don?t contradict each other

860 Every soul will taste death, and you will be recompensed your dues on the Day of Resurrection. Whoever is swayed from the Fire and entered into Paradise, he has indeed won. This worldly life is nothing more than the enjoyment of vanity.

Can you please confirm that the above verse is 860

so mutwaffika and rafiuka need not be understood as implying the same thing! -)

as far as I believe this is the case with Jesus, it was implying two different actions, in the case of Idris for example, we were told that he was only raised ?Rafaaho? while Allah never said ?Mutawafihi? about Idris, in Jesus case it was extra piece of information that his soul exited his body, and if you know a bit about the Egyptian history you may know that Idris was the Egyptian king ?Osoris? who taught humans many tings for the first time like agriculture etc etc, the Egyptians made him a god and he was also raised by Allah to the heaven as the Quran told us but the Quran never told us that prophet Idris died

It is a bit complicated I have to agree

Salam

unknownuser

Salaam Ahmed Bahgat

I found this verse and according to my understanding that Allah will create the new universe just like the which He created the first one.

21104The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one a promise We have undertaken truly shall We fulfil it.

relevance?

Mind your own business. You are not Ahmed Baghat.

dude i was trying to follow the thread, i just didn't understand what relevance that had w/ the thread in hand. I wasn't being sarcastic, just curious. And yes I know i am not ahmed baghat, thanks for clarifying though, you learn something new everyday.

Pardon my sarcasm, but every reaction has a reaction.

thegod

ahmedbahgat wrote
Without the verses bro, I agree with you regarding wafa, but again it may be fulfilling the life term appointed to Jesus, but really mate I think the root for Mutawafika is Ta Wa Fa, not Wa Fa Ya, not entirely positive and I will need to confirm that later, and to be accurate Wa Fa Ya means to be truthful, Ta Wa Fa is the one that means fulfil

1691 When they entered (Joseph's) quarters, they said, "O you noble one, we have suffered a lot of hardship, along with our family, and we have brought inferior goods. But we hope that you will give us full measure and be charitable to us. GOD rewards the charitable."

1691 Waawfoo biAAahdi Allahi itha AAahadtum wala tanqudoo al-aymana baAAda tawkeediha waqad jaAAaltumu Allaha AAalaykum kafeelan inna Allaha yaAAlamu ma tafAAaloona

ahmedbahgat wrote
According to the context in 240 is Wa Fa Ya, pronounced as wafa, it means to be truthful, Im not positive that it means fulfil really, it needs further study

2272 It is not required of thee (O Messenger), to set them on the right path, but Allah sets on the right path whom He pleaseth. Whatever of good ye give benefits your own souls, and ye shall only do so seeking the "Face" of Allah. Whatever good ye give, shall be rendered back to you, and ye shall not Be dealt with unjustly.

2272 Laysa AAalayka hudahum walakinna Allaha yahdee man yashao wama tunfiqoo min khayrin fali-anfusikum wama tunfiqoona illa ibtighaa wajhi Allahi wama tunfiqoo min khayrin yuwaffa ilaykum waantum la tuthlamoona

ahmedbahgat wrote
I dont know man, you got me lost here, please elaborate please

what i mean is that each soul seems to has a covenant with god as to who its lord is....and each soul has a term which it has been set to fulfill this covenant when its turn comes....and on death the term of the soul is completed and it then will be accountable for its conduct! so basically i see it as being the completion of the term which god allots to each soul!

and i do think sleep is a period when v are set free of this period of test....whatever v do when v are asleep is something which v are not accountable for....and is similar to death....the difference being once death is decreed on a soul it will no more be allowed to prove its fidelity to god! lolz...i wonder if i could explain what i want...i will try to sort things a bit better later....though i am far off from what i would have wanted to verify before postin here...so i am just kinda wonderin out loud! -S

ahmedbahgat wrote
I believe it is part of the convent Ahd or Waad, but Im not sure that it is part of the fulfilment , I always understood Wa Fa Ya as being truthful, in fact Abraham was described as such

(37)

Mate it seems that fulfilling something may mean being truthful?, it is very close and I can accept that,

yes......kind of.....like i tell u at 1 "that i will do such and such thing by 5"....so the term is 4 hours and when its 5 the term is completed...now if i have done such and such thing then i have fulfilled my words...been truthful to it...if not i have failed to fulfill my promise...i know its another weird example! -S

ahmedbahgat wrote
the proplem for me in 5337 that you have to add extra words to translate Wafa to fulfilment, this is clear from all the following 3 translation

YUSUFALI And of Abraham who fulfilled his engagements?-
PICKTHAL And Abraham who paid his debt
SHAKIR And (of) Ibrahim who fulfilled (the commandments)

While the Arabic verses is only 4 words, so I see it as

And Abraham who was truthful

But I can accept both, because the two meaning dont contradict each other

i dont see the need for extra words..."and abraham alladhee/the one who fulfilled" seems perfectly alright to me!

infact 5341 says

5341 Then he (will) be reimbursed the reimbursement , the most fulfilling/completing.
5341 Thumma yujzahu aljazaa al-awfa

ahmedbahgat wrote
Can you please confirm that the above verse is 860

nopes...it is 3185 -)

ahmedbahgat wrote
as far as I believe this is the case with Jesus, it was implying two different actions, in the case of Idris for example, we were told that he was only raised Rafaaho while Allah never said Mutawafihi about Idris, in Jesus case it was extra piece of information that his soul exited his body, and if you know a bit about the Egyptian history you may know that Idris was the Egyptian king Osoris who taught humans many tings for the first time like agriculture etc etc, the Egyptians made him a god and he was also raised by Allah to the heaven as the Quran told us but the Quran never told us that prophet Idris died

It is a bit complicated I have to agree

yes...and much about jesus is intriguin...so i do not rule out an intriguin finish either...i will check out idris in quran later! as for orisis and egyptians....yes they do have some interestin stuff! -)

salam -)

thegod

1691 And fulfill the covenant of Allah when you have made a covenant, and do not break the oaths after making them fast, and you have indeed made Allah a surety for you; surely Allah I . knows what you do.

1691 Waawfoo biAAahdi Allahi itha AAahadtum wala tanqudoo al-aymana baAAda tawkeediha waqad jaAAaltumu Allaha AAalaykum kafeelan inna Allaha yaAAlamu ma tafAAaloona

i pasted another verse (the english translation) as 1691 above

unknownuser

what i mean is that each soul seems to has a covenant with god as to who its lord is....and each soul has a term which it has been set to fulfill this covenant when its turn comes....and on death the term of the soul is completed and it then will be accountable for its conduct! so basically i see it as being the completion of the term which god allots to each soul!

I agree then bro, in fact, logically speaking since we existed we will never varnish our status is only changing from one to another

and i do think sleep is a period when v are set free of this period of test....whatever v do when v are asleep is something which v are not accountable for....and is similar to death....the difference being once death is decreed on a soul it will no more be allowed to prove its fidelity to god! lolz...i wonder if i could explain what i want...i will try to sort things a bit better later....though i am far off from what i would have wanted to verify before postin here...so i am just kinda wonderin out loud! -S

what you say makes sense but may I ask, what is "v"?

yes......kind of.....like i tell u at 1 "that i will do such and such thing by 5"....so the term is 4 hours and when its 5 the term is completed...now if i have done such and such thing then i have fulfilled my words...been truthful to it...if not i have failed to fulfill my promise...i know its another weird example! -S

not really if you failed in doing a task that you said you will do that it means that you are NOT truthful, because failing to do a physical action may be due to some other reasons beyond your, I think Wafa more in the spirit, like the spirit of Abraham and any true believer

i dont see the need for extra words..."and abraham alladhee/the one who fulfilled" seems perfectly alright to me!

it is ok but it is a bit vague because some may ask fulfilled what?

infact 5341 says

5341 Then he (will) be reimbursed the reimbursement , the most fulfilling/completing.
5341 Thumma yujzahu aljazaa al-awfa

ok thanks for the verse, yes it means so, it is strange that it is in the same sure i posted Ibrahim verse from, but please be aware that it is an adjective to the reimbursement , which can have many meaning here, like the well desreved reimbursement, in addition to the clear meaniung you posted

yes...and much about jesus is intriguin...so i do not rule out an intriguin finish either...i will check out idris in quran later! as for orisis and egyptians....yes they do have some interestin stuff! -)

salam -)

Yes it is very interesting especially when you read the many evidences that prophet Idris was the egyptian king Osiris

Peace

thegod

ahmedbahgat wrote
I agree then bro, in fact, logically speaking since we existed we will never varnish our status is only changing from one to another

yes...the soul will endure as long as god wills!

ahmedbahgat wrote
what you say makes sense but may I ask, what is "v"?

v soul....that which was covenanted!

ahmedbahgat wrote
not really if you failed in doing a task that you said you will do that it means that you are NOT truthful, because failing to do a physical action may be due to some other reasons beyond your,

i get what u mean....what i meant was when it was possible for me to do....within my means....but i decided not to honour my words!

ahmedbahgat wrote
I think Wafa more in the spirit, like the spirit of Abraham and any true believer

i did not get that v have a verse talkin about completin the mesaure/weight when measurin/weighin...could u elaborate? -)

ahmedbahgat wrote
it is ok but it is a bit vague because some may ask fulfilled what?

perhaps...but this is not really without a precedent...for example

7921 But he rejected (the truth) and disobeyed.
7922 Then he went back hastily.
7923 Then he gathered (men) and called out.
7924 Then he said I am your lord, the most high.

what did he gather?....perhaps not roses in some garden......whom did he call out?....perhaps not the birds in its trees...but yes v can see in the context of the quran what it is all about! it may not be the most appropriate example that can be given....but i hope it works just that bit!

ahmedbahgat wrote
ok thanks for the verse,

netime! -)

ahmedbahgat wrote
yes it means so, it is strange that it is in the same sure i posted Ibrahim verse from, but please be aware that it is an adjective to the reimbursement , which can have many meaning here, like the well desreved reimbursement, in addition to the clear meaniung you posted

yes...but to me it does seem fulfill/complete/make whole and the likes seem to be a fairly consistent translation! ofcourse....like i said these are just preliminaries to a better understandin! -)

ahmedbahgat wrote
Yes it is very interesting especially when you read the many evidences that prophet Idris was the egyptian king Osiris

to be honest i hardly know about idris and i am interested in learnin more...and also the chronicles of the messiah definitely interest me ...so let's see what v can find based on quran! -)

anyway i have to leave...for an indefinite term.....maybe later...till then...-)

salam

unknownuser

"The reason Jews put a person on the cross is to kill him according to their custom."

I thought the Romans were the ones who used crucifixion, the Jews were not allowed to carry out capital punishment during the Roman rule. They brought charges against Jesus but did not have power over Him.

zenje

Peace tg,

Could you please avoid quoting your own replies, it tends to be a bit confusing when reading.

Thanks