Ritual to praying
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salaam ahmed
Salat is to make connection/communication with Allah and that can happen through a humbled physical prayer as the prophet taught the belivers and can be qualified by the Quran
Do I take it that the Quran does endorse 5 daily prayers or have I misunderstood what you have written.
regardsSalam bro
the Quran endorses learning from the prophet things that was taught to him by Allah, those things taught are something else but the Kitab and Hikmah, the Quran defined it as "Things that the prophet never knew before", , the Quran also told us to follow the prophet in the things that make sesne and the prophet told us to ignore the hadiths that are not qualified by the Quran, therefore and based on common sense yes the Quran INDIRECTLY endorses the way the Salat was performed by Mohammad and we have been asked to follow that and learn from him, i believe that this is one serious test to the believers
Salam
Ahmed is trying his level best to turn this entire forum to SUNNISM, from where many here got "evolved" to begin with.
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Salaam Danish
Ahmed is trying his level best to turn this entire forum to SUNNISM, from where many here got "evolved" to begin with
.Can we please stop these stupid labels. It is not as though as those who are Quran only believers, in which I include myself, agree with each other on every issue.
Incidentally Ahmed why do you think Quran mentions the five prayers indirectly, when the five different times are quoted in the Quran or this incorrect translation.
regards -
Incidentally Ahmed why do you think Quran mentions the five prayers indirectly,
Peace bro
It is based on compelling logic and common sense but firstly i never said that the Quran mention the 5 prayers indirectly, all i said was "and based on common sense yes the Quran INDIRECTLY endorses the way the Salat was performed by Mohammad and we have been asked to follow that and learn from him"
Clear bro, it means that if mohammad said it was five then I take it as five, if you will get into the argument in how I make sure that the ones who told me it is 5 are correct in transferring it to me then this is a whole new discussion and is will be a damn long one, i will be interested in it but I'm not sure if i have enough time to dedicate to it
when the five different times are quoted in the Quran or this incorrect translation.
regardsThe question above does not make sense, because i said "INDIRECTLY" hence you will see the 5 times directly, in addition to that I never said 5 times Indirectly from the Quran, but sure the prophet said they are 5 so here is the sequence bro
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The arabs salat to the god were corrupt, they even prayed to statues and offer them food and drinks
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Allah taught Mohammad three things
a) Al Kitab,
b) Al Hikmah,
c) and OTHER THINGS THAT WERE ONLY DEFINED AS "THINGS THAT MOHAMMAD NEVER KNEW BEFORE"- Allah orders Mohammad to teach the humans those three things
a) Al Kitab,
b) Al Hikmah,
c) and OTHER THINGS THAT WERE ONLY DEFINED AS "THINGS THAT MOHAMMAD NEVER KNEW BEFORE" and NOW NEITHER US "THE HUMANS" KNEW IT- Allah orders us to listen/obey to Mohammad when he teaches us those three things
a) Al Kitab,
b) Al Hikmah,
c) and OTHER THINGS THAT WERE ONLY DEFINED AS "THINGS THAT MOHAMMAD NEVER KNEW BEFORE" NEITHER HUMANS AT HIS TIME KNEW ITThe Salat will be categorised under "THINGS THAT NEITHER MOHAMMAD NOR THE HUMANS AT HIS TIME KNEW BEFORE", and what i mean by "KNEW", is "KNEW HOW TO DO IT", because they already were doing it but it got CORRUPTED.
The whole thing sound as a serious plot by Allah to test the believers, if you consider that the common reaction by humans is to reject the true messengers, and Allah clearly told us the all messengers MUST BE OBEYED, Mohammad though was given higher privilege than that from Allah perspective, that higher privilege is simply ?Mohammad was allowed to create LAWS?, under the laws of Mohammad (The hadith) we read that he told us, if the hadith is not qualified by the Quran then WE SHOULD IGNORE IT
Now I can?t see how the many hadiths about praying 5 times can not be qualified with the Quran if the Quran has clealy stressed the importance of the Salat, I agree that some of hadith may be fake or got corrupted, that is why the study must be to look at all those hadiths that are talking about Salat and remove the ones that don?t make sense or have a contradiction, then follow the others under the category ?THE THINGS THAT WERE TAUGHT TO MOHAMMAD BY ALLAH AND MOHAMMAD MUST TEACH IT TO US AND WE MUST OBEY IT IF IT IS QUALIFIED BY THE QURAN AND MAKES SENSE?
Very simple indeed
Peace
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The was one hell of a stupid comment danish
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Peace be upon you,
Ahmed, please refrain from calling people stupid. I am sure yuo will say you were attacked, no, you ARE promoting sunnism, clearly.
There is no way possible that you can find 5 times for "salaat" (which is not prayer). The verses clearly say dawn and dusk, and there is no such thing as a middle prayer. There is no proof of a man named Muhammad that you speak of and it would be foolish to follow something just cause someone heard someone say that someone heard someone say that this person said there was 5 "salaat", especially when these sources are calling salaat as some type of prayer when "dua" means prayer.
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Peace be upon you,
Ahmed, please refrain from calling people stupid. I am sure yuo will say you were attacked, no, you ARE promoting sunnism, clearly.
There is no way possible that you can find 5 times for "salaat" (which is not prayer). The verses clearly say dawn and dusk, and there is no such thing as a middle prayer. There is no proof of a man named Muhammad that you speak of and it would be foolish to follow something just cause someone heard someone say that someone heard someone say that this person said there was 5 "salaat", especially when these sources are calling salaat as some type of prayer when "dua" means prayer.
Peace
firstly Kyle I didn't call anyone stupid, can you prove it please?
secondly i have the freedom to promote what I want to promote, like many here who promote atheism
Salam
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Peace,
By my best understanding, there are only 3 times mentiones for prayer. And salat's meaning in the Quran, is derived from its verses context, and has no one meaning throughout the whole Quran.
= Sad-Lam-Waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honour, magnifiy, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse?s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.musalla (ي n. m. - 2125
Ahmed Ali on the meaning of Salat
"Salat as As-sala meant middle of the back, a horse that is second in a race, and as salia-wastala dependence, adherence, attachment. In the Quran salat acquired the conceptual meanings of devotion, adherence to God and His commands, fulfilling one?s duties and obligations as behoves an ?abd, creature, servant, devotee of God, as integral part of ?ubudiyat, servitude and devotion, made clear in 2441 which underlines that every creature in the heavens and the earth knows its salat, duties and obligations. It also means worship as in 855, piety as in 1187, and service of prayer, as in 2238; 443, 101-103; 11114, etc.
The Quran, thus, brings to the mind its real objects from words by invoking the images imbedded in the subconcious. For though the words remain the same, they often acquire new conceptual meanings and new dimensions lying hidden in their roots, which are brought out by the Quran, and now form part of its linguistic and intellectual dynamism. At the same time they become removed from the Jahiliya which was more of an attitude of mind and culture than a state of ignorance, as well as the later world as unfolded by the changing patterns of history, thought and language, so that anyone interpreting the Quran on the basis as used by Arabs today would only misled the readers of the Book."
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
firstly Kyle I didn't call anyone stupid, can you prove it please?
You have to learn how to control your behavior, period. I dont have time for word games with you.
secondly i have the freedom to promote what I want to promote, like many here who promote atheism
You certainly do, but you must do so without saying things like "your comment is stupid" etc. I am sure you are aware of the nature of this forum, no one is trying to go back to the slave mind we once had when we "accepted Islam".
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Peace Kyle
me too donlt have time to watse with your basless accusation
my advice to you is to STOP picking on me, well let me make it easy for you
from now on you will be ignored and this will be my last comment to you for eternity, period
take care
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Danish is trying his level best to turn this entire forum to KUFR, from where many here got "evolved" to begin with.
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Salaam ahmed
Quote from stillearning
Incidentally Ahmed why do you think Quran mentions the five prayers indirectly,Peace bro
It is based on compelling logic and common sense but firstly i never said that the Quran mention the 5 prayers indirectly, all i said was "and based on common sense yes the Quran INDIRECTLY endorses the way the Salat was performed by Mohammad and we have been asked to follow that and learn from him"
Clear bro, it means that if mohammad said it was five then I take it as five, if you will get into the argument in how I make sure that the ones who told me it is 5 are correct in transferring it to me then this is a whole new discussion and is will be a damn long one, i will be interested in it but I'm not sure if i have enough time to dedicate to it
Quote from stillearning
when the five different times are quoted in the Quran or this incorrect translation.
regardsThe question above does not make sense, because i said "INDIRECTLY" hence you will see the 5 times directly, in addition to that I never said 5 times Indirectly from the Quran, but sure the prophet said they are 5 so here is the sequence bro
I think we have got our wires crossed. I dont disagree with you regarding the 5 prayers. What I was trying to say(obviousouly not very successfully) is that number of translations i have read refer to 5 prayers. Few years back I looked at all the references refering to praying in the Quran and they actually added to 5 different times in the day(I will have to go and dig up all the references as i cannot recall many of them from memeory) all I am trying to establish is that have I read incorrect translations. Being a native arabic speaker i would appreciate you comments on this as my understanding is that the Quran does refer to 5 prayer times.
regards -
I think we have got our wires crossed.
Misunderstanding is always a real possibility bro, in fact I found that a "NOT" is missing in my comment and this should have confused you a bit, sorry i said "hence you will see the 5 times directly" and it should be "hence you will NOT see the 5 times directly"
I dont disagree with you regarding the 5 prayers.
i never actually thought of that
What I was trying to say(obviousouly not very successfully) is that number of translations i have read refer to 5 prayers.
do you mean quran translation, or hadith translation?
the number of salat itself was never mentioned even indirectly, I meant by indirectly in my previous comment that Allah has given Mohammad the power to create rules and practices as we were told in the Quran so te 5 times is solely coming from Mohammad, i could not find any clues that the number itself may be corrupted by the many who transferred the haditn to us, I agree though that the hadith of 50 salat decreased to 5 because of moses is very corrupt
Few years back I looked at all the references refering to praying in the Quran and they actually added to 5 different times in the day(I will have to go and dig up all the references as i cannot recall many of them from memeory)
i believe you, but as I stated the number (5 salata) itself is not even mentined indirectly as far as I believe and I can't see any logic that Allah hide it or make it encryppted in the Quran so we have to work it out, my work out was simple and easy and is to follow what the prophet said regarding salat after those hadith pass the common sense and Quran tests using my mind
all I am trying to establish is that have I read incorrect translations. Being a native arabic speaker i would appreciate you comments on this as my understanding is that the Quran does refer to 5 prayer times.
regardsNo it does not my friend as far as I believe, and I also believe that even indirecly the total 5 was not mentioned, those who are trying to work it out are really wasting their time, possibly trying to look smart, anyway the way i see anyone looking smart regarding the salat is to follow what we heard from the prophet via trusted sources and after passing the common sense and the Quran tests
comment edited slightly
Take care
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salaam ahmed
YUSUFALI Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun, and before its setting; yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day that thou mayest have (spiritual) joy.
PICKTHAL Therefor (O Muhammad), bear with what they say, and celebrate the praise of thy Lord ere the rising of the sun and ere the going down thereof. And glorify Him some hours of the night and at the two ends of the day, that thou mayst find acceptance.
SHAKIR Bear then patiently what they say, and glorify your Lord by the praising of Him before the rising of the sun and before its setting, and during hours of the night do also glorify (Him) and during parts of the day, that you may be well pleased
KHALIFA Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy.011.114
YUSUFALI And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night For those things, that are good remove those that are evil Be that the word of remembrance to those who remember (their Lord)
PICKTHAL Establish worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night. Lo! good deeds annul ill-deeds. This is reminder for the mindful.
SHAKIR And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds this is a reminder to the mindful.
KHALIFA You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.
017.078
YUSUFALI Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.
PICKTHAL Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of night, and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn is ever witnessed.
SHAKIR Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.
KHALIFA You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its
highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.017.079
YUSUFALI And pray in the small watches of the morning (it would be) an additional prayer (or spiritual profit) for thee soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Station of Praise and Glory!
PICKTHAL And some part of the night awake for it, a largess for thee. It may be that thy Lord will raise thee to a praised estate.
SHAKIR And during a part of the night, pray Tahajjud beyond what is incumbent on you; maybe your Lord will raise you to a position of great glory.
KHALIFA During the night, you shall meditate for extra credit, that your Lord may raise you to an honorable rank.030.017
YUSUFALI So (give) glory to Allah, when ye reach eventide and when ye rise in the morning;
PICKTHAL So glory be to Allah when ye enter the night and when ye enter the morning -
SHAKIR Therefore glory be to Allah when you enter upon the time of the evening and when you enter upon the time of the morning.
KHALIFA Therefore, you shall glorify GOD when you retire at night, and when you rise in the morning.030.018
YUSUFALI Yea, to Him be praise, in the heavens and on earth; and in the late afternoon and when the day begins to decline. PICKTHAL Unto Him be praise in the heavens and the earth! - and at the sun's decline and in the noonday.
SHAKIR And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday.
KHALIFA All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth, throughout the evening, as well as in the middle of your day.What do all these references refer to. Do they not suggest 5 prayers or have I got wrong end of the stcik?
regards -
Peace bro
sorry man, it can't be conclusive, it seems to me that Allah left it open for His messenger to expalin it to us
if you think the above is enough to concusivly define the 5 Salat then why many here say there is only 2 and some say there is only 3 and again according to the same verses you posted
Peace
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Peace be upon you,
Fortunately we have verse that actually have the word salaat in them like 1778 to clarify it for us. As well as a verse that states dawn salaat and dusk salaat by name.
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salaam all
(1) before the rising of the sun
(2)in the middle of your day.
(3) before its setting
(4)during the night
(5)sun's decline till the darkness of the night
The above are mentioned in the Quran, which ever translation you read.
regards -
Peace be upon you,
(1) before the rising of the sun
(2)in the middle of your day.
(3) before its setting
(4)during the night
(5)sun's decline till the darkness of the night
The above are mentioned in the Quran, which ever translation you read.
regardsIs the word "salaat" mentioned in those verses? Or are you referring to "Glorify"?
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Salam all
I've been reading alot of threads since I joined this site (yesterday) and I noticed alot of ppl stating that praying 5 times a day is some paganistic ritual. What's up with that? So if I pray 6 times all of a sudden it's ok ? Is the number 5 a tabboo number? I understand the point folks are trying to make, that we should only base our religion on what was laid down to us in the quran. I whole-heartedly agree with that. But that doesn't negate anyone who chooses to pray 5 times a day as being a non-muslim all of a sudden or even a pagan. I think that's very extreme language, and I'm sorry to say, reminds me too much of other "islamic" sects. Let's all remember that God is a Merciful and Forgiving God and for fear of putting us all in a neat, uniform box (sunnism, shiism) I'm afraid some of us are now creating a new box on this forum. Let's exercise our tolerance for other's thoughts and opinions and not throw around such extreme wording so loosely. I personally believe God commanded us to pray. Prayer can be made in a variety of different ways and forms. As long as it's done for the sole purpose of worshipping God Alone, is a meditative and reflective act, and is done daily, then it's considered Salat. Whether you say other suras other than el Fatiha or choose to only say el Fatiha; whether you choose to sit on your knees or only stand and prostrate; whether you choose to pray 5 times a day or 500 times a day - those are all really personal choices and I don't see how any of us can safely say one way is absolutely WRONG. We can have different opinions without throwing around the word pagan or any other strong word. And by the way I'm not aiming this at any one particular person cuz the whole pagan thing wasn't even on this thread if I recall. No need for labels too. We're all using our igtihad skills, which is always fun to see )
Gazakom Allah kheir
Peace -
Peace,
It is about the claims made what the Quran says. Everybody can pray as much as he wants. But to say there are 5 prayers in the Quran is wrong. So there is no taboo on 5, but on claims to prove it's 5. But we are still discussing everything. So i believe'it will take years before we come to a consensus of understanding as our knowledge of the arabic used will grow Godwiling..
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Peace be upon you Soul2squeeze,
While it i scertainly wrong to call people pagans or whatever insulting name one comes up with, the fact is we are here to debate(hajja) without arguing(jidala) as to what is the correct guidance being delivered to mankind in this proclamation(quran).
FUrther, salaat is not prayer, the word dua reflects the meaning of prayer/calling. Salaat is something else. Something that is done at dawn and dusk. The times prescribed for a reason. So what benefit does one get from doing it at other times, wether 5 , 6, or whatever?
A similitude would be a man trying to impregnate a women when she is menstruating rather than the PROPER time, or a farmer trying to plant seeds in the incorrect season.
The number is only important because of the CYCLE we are trying to align ourselves with.