is homosexuality a genetic disorder?
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peace free-thinkers,
at my school, we were having a discussion about homosexuals. i told my teacher why is "gay/straight" so common these days? did gay people exist in the past? my teacher was unable to respond to the first question but she responeded the second one.
could someone, scientifically explain to me th fact that "people don't choose to be gay, it is a genetic disorder"
if we can arrive with a solid conclusion, then we shall decide by using the "given laws" in the quran to determine if homosexuality is accepted by allah or not...
what i do know is this it is very rare/nonexistent in nature? i am soooooooooo confused about this?
peace, rifat
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peace rifat,
from what I've read, scientists are still debating about this matter. the debate is plagued with biases, though, because of the naturalistic fallacy of the pro-side 'if it's genetic, it can't be morally wrong'.
I'd say we still haven't got that 'solid conclusion' abput whether homosexuality is genetic or not. But in the many homosexuality threads in this forum over the years, I myself think that homosexuality, even if it's genetic, is not accepted by Allah.
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Salaam all,
I once spoke with a Homosexual man (and I was very uncomfortable about it) who told me that he believed in the religion of Abraham including all the books (OT, NT and Quran) BUT that he believed God had made him the way he is. He genuinely believed in God but felt his homosexual desires were natural. I can't tell him that his feelings were wrong, no one can tell another 'how to feel', but I made it clear that I did not accept his lifestyle and wished him the best in his pursuit of God's truth.
Nowadays, the general public have become so desensitised by the positive support and understanding to homosexuality, that it is difficult to hold any view that detests it and not look like an ignoramus. Being homosexual probably doesn't stop one from doing good deeds and believing in God, but the story of Lot is clear in the scriptures.
I don't believe that homosexuality is genetic, surely then paedophiles will claim the same thing that their sexual preferences are natural too. If we go down the road of "genetics" then possible murderers can also claim that their crimes are the result of a genetic foundation. I don't believe God gives us such attributes as natural, but then again what about hermaphrodites? I can't give a definite answer on this, but I am very, very, very grateful that I am a red-blooded heterosexual male who is attracted to females.
Peace,
Stitch
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See? I can smell the naturalistic fallacy coming.
The naturalistic fallacy is 'If something is natural, then it's morally right.'
It appears often in homosexuality discussions. Of course, our moral code isn't what's 'natural' but what's written in the Qur'an, and the Qur'an concemns homosexuality. In this sense it does not matter if homosexuality is genetic or not.
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peace andya primanda,
It appears often in homosexuality discussions. Of course, our moral code isn't what's 'natural' but what's written in the Qur'an, and the Qur'an concemns homosexuality. In this sense it does not matter if homosexuality is genetic or not.
well, how clear is allah on the issue of homosexuality when he mentioned "lewdness such no one else on earth has committed before you"... was that a new way for people to sexually express themselves which in modern times we know as "lesbian/homosexualltiy"? i asked my teacher if it was an issue in the past, because i think this issue is more common in America because of mass media... her reply was yes, it was an issue in the past. that led me to start this thread.
in the bible story, the wife of lot died just for looking back? ??? should the bible be interpreted symbolically like the quran, for as we know god is just and logical. in the quran, god saved the family of lot except for the "old women/the wife of lot". the quran really encourages believers to stay away from "lewdness" which is really a personal definition.(except, illegal/weird marrige/sex outside marriage is clear lewdness from the eyes of allah, see quran for verificaiton)/
i believe if god really hated something he would punish us not only in the hereafer, but also i the earth for such acts...(does all gay people acquire the HIV virus?) did allah tell us to reject or accept "the people who commit lewdness" ??? some quranists say homosexuallity is lewdness while others say it is ok to have them around(issues like these divert this god alone community...)
is homosexuallity excepted in nature? ???( besides, among homo sapiens i mean) probably among monkeys, and ape-like creatures but what about other species? was this the beginning of the HIV virus?
peace, rifat
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Salaam,
I personally think that God does not "expect" anything from His creations whatever it is.
And whosoever strives then he is only striving for himself; for God is in no need of the worlds.
Even if it is genetic, I will continue to remind myself with
And a soul and what He made. So He gave it its evil and good. Successful is the one who betters it. And failing is the one who buries it.
Having said that, this is just my personal take in this, that it is a matter of choice for each person. God might test me differently from other people, but it is always a test. It depends on me whether I want to pass it or fail it.
=adley=
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peace
but if it's genetic, that means God intended to make you that way. How can God make you a certain way and expect you to act completely different?
That, my friend, is a problem I and many other people, including great thinkers of the past and present, have not been able to solve.
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peace andya primanda,
It appears often in homosexuality discussions. Of course, our moral code isn't what's 'natural' but what's written in the Qur'an, and the Qur'an concemns homosexuality. In this sense it does not matter if homosexuality is genetic or not.
well, how clear is allah on the issue of homosexuality when he mentioned "lewdness such no one else on earth has committed before you"... was that a new way for people to sexually express themselves which in modern times we know as "lesbian/homosexualltiy"? i asked my teacher if it was an issue in the past, because i think this issue is more common in America because of mass media... her reply was yes, it was an issue in the past. that led me to start this thread.
I don't know much about the history of homosexuality, so I cannot answer that, sorry.
i believe if god really hated something he would punish us not only in the hereafer, but also i the earth for such acts...(does all gay people acquire the HIV virus?) did allah tell us to reject or accept "the people who commit lewdness" ??? some quranists say homosexuallity is lewdness while others say it is ok to have them around(issues like these divert this god alone community...)
Not all gay people has HIV.
I don't have a firm opinion about the acceptance issue. I don't mind having gays/lesbians as my neighbour, but I do mind if they ask me to participate in their homosexual activities, and I condemn those activities. But I stop at that.
is homosexuallity excepted in nature? ???( besides, among homo sapiens i mean) probably among monkeys, and ape-like creatures but what about other species? was this the beginning of the HIV virus?
Animals don't actually have an elaborate moral code so the question 'accepted in nature' doesn't have any meaning. There are cases of homosexuality in animals, but as far as I know these are few and usually occur in 'unnatural' conditions .
HIV is a virus that evolved from Simian Immunodeficiency Virus, a virus that occurs in chimps and other primates. Sometime in the 1950s it jumped from a West African primate to humans, probably from people eating infected ape/monkey meat, and it then spread among humans around the world because it happens to infect a sailor.
Btw isn't the discussion of HIV off-topic here?
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Peace "phoenix1",
peace
but if it's genetic, that means God intended to make you that way. How can God make you a certain way and expect you to act completely different?
JK- NOT NECESSARILY. Many children are born deformed. Did GOD intend them to be that way? Id rather say that this is because of the influence of satan in this world and the evil which the humans commit as a result. Thus GOD ALLOWS IT TO HAPPEN for a specific purpose on which we can only speculate. Could be 1) Everyone is tested differently 2) Original sin. GOD Bless!
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Peace "phoenix1",
JK- NOT NECESSARILY. Many children are born deformed. Did GOD intend them to be that way? Id rather say that this is because of the influence of satan in this world and the evil which the humans commit as a result. Thus GOD ALLOWS IT TO HAPPEN for a specific purpose on which we can only speculate. Could be 1) Everyone is tested differently 2) Original sin. GOD Bless!Off-topic Although I partly agree with K's 'not necessarily' comment, I don't think it's original sin. There's no such thing as 'original sin' in the Qur'an, nobody carries the sins of another.
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peace Johnny K,
I don't think 'deformed' people can be put into the same group as homosexuals. Disabled people struggle to live their lives sometimes (like getting around the house), and sometimes they are abhorred by society because of their looks/beliefs, but trying to get accepted by society is not a test. Homosexuals don't have a disability. They can live their lives without any trouble. If society shuns them, it has nothing to do with universal law or God. It has to do with the society's belief.
And if something is genetic, then that's the way you ARE. The reason all of us are straight, and that being heterosexual is "natural" is because of our genetic make up.
If you are genetically homosexual, then that's what you are. And that's what you SHOULD BE.
And i'm not arguing whether it is genetic or not. -
peace Johnny K,
I don't think 'deformed' people can be put into the same group as homosexuals. Disabled people struggle to live their lives sometimes (like getting around the house), and sometimes they are abhorred by society because of their looks/beliefs, but trying to get accepted by society is not a test. Homosexuals don't have a disability. They can live their lives without any trouble. If society shuns them, it has nothing to do with universal law or God. It has to do with the society's belief.
And if something is genetic, then that's the way you ARE. The reason all of us are straight, and that being heterosexual is "natural" is because of our genetic make up.
If you are genetically homosexual, then that's what you are. And that's what you SHOULD BE.
And i'm not arguing whether it is genetic or not.Phoenix, this is the Naturalistic Fallacy I've been arguing about.
Some people are born with criminal tendencies. Does that mean they should be serial killers?
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peace andya primanda and phoenix1,
phx1 wrote
. If society shuns them, it has nothing to do with universal law or God. It has to do with the society's belief.religious people have been debating this issue for decades, whether homosexuallity is accepted by god or not. and the "free-thinkers" of this website says that it is not. people are ignorant because they have hatred in their chests "god knows what you reveal and what you conceal"( surah2 al quran).
don't you know why people use excuses such as color, sex, nationality and other status to simply degrade fellow human beings? because they have hatred in their chests
AP wroteSome people are born with criminal tendencies. Does that mean they should be serial killers?
according to my interpretation of the quran, i do not think human are born with natural innovations "to kill/transgress(in the language of the quran)"because we are influenced by society, and satan/the hidden mind that strays "the human mind" from the message of god thus misguiding us to choose the wrong path. since there are more than one ways to solve one problem, it is in human inquisition to choose what HE THINKS IS BEST FOR HIM. that's why people choose to do drugs and crime because they feel it is their alternative to solving society's problems which is led by due to lack of knowledge and insights and inner conscience. as you grow up, once this inner belief is set it will be hard for you to get rid of that belief...because not only that is your interpretation of life but also that is how you think life should be and you are o.k. with it... hey, maybe homosexuallity isn't genetic! but since the first "homosexuals/people who transgressed during the time of lot stattred something no one has ever done before concerning lewdness..." got to pass their traits and maybe that is why it is still existent today... same concept could be applied to the HIV virus...because the gene did not die... it just passed and passed and pased...
is my information valid and accurate to the best of my knowledge?correct me if i am scientifically wrong...
i think god accepts everything since he created everthing otherwise it wouldn't it be in our mind-range... "we taught mankind what it did not know"(al quraan) since everything is under the control of god.
peace, rifat
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Phoenix, this is the Naturalistic Fallacy I've been arguing about.
Some people are born with criminal tendencies. Does that mean they should be serial killers?
peace
i don't know if the above statement is correct, but even if it is true, having criminal tendencies is different from having homosexual tendencies. Homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone.
And morality is never about completely changing yourself, it's about CONTROLLING yourself. I don't know how a homosexual can just control themselves and become hetero. -
I read a book by Professor Paul Gilbert and he claimed that the power of our genes must never be underestimated because they even influence the food and clothes we like!
Even if it is genetic by no means does it justify homosexuality. Even the most stubborn genes can be overcome if you are willing to put the effort in, of course it will not be easy. But if homosexuality is genetic it could even be a test from God to see if you will control yourself.
However there are other reasons why people become gay. I friend of mine told me that this girl she knew was a lesbian, her parents believed homosexuality was abnormal so they sent her to a psychologist and she managed to discover why she had those perverted feelings. She had witnessed a girl being raped and ever since then had a fear of men. Then she was referred to a councillor and had some counselling sessions for what happened, when she finally got over what happened she stopped getting those perverted feelings.
Homosexuality is not normal, most people I have talked to claim that it could stem from a bad experience which makes them get those perverted feelings.
Peace,
Sugar -
peace,
Homosexuality is not normal, most people I have talked to claim that it could stem from a bad experience which makes them get those perverted feelings.
so you are saying that it is a personal experience disorder rather than a genetic disorder?
peace, rifat
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Peace to All
Actually there are some syndromes that cause a person to have "homosexual" tendencies. I'll break it down as simply as possible. We all know that a male = XY chromosomes and a female= XX. Well some people are born with an additional chromosome! ... leaving them with XXY. This is called the Klinefelter's Syndrome. And these humans are male but have an extra X in each gene which affects them at puberty. Some develop breast tissue, while others exhibit stunted growth in their testicles. They lead an absolutely normal life and may or may not reproduce with another female. However, with the added X chromosome comes a different hormonal balance! There have been cases of these individuals showing "homosexual" tendencies.
There is also the opposite, some have XYY chromosome which is called Turner's Syndrome. These are females that develop abnormal growth tendencies and are characterized by a webbed neck and a larger than normal clitoris (the clitoris is the part of the genitalia that grows into a penis in a fetus, if the baby is developing as an XY male). Many who have Turner's syndrome have expressed an urge to be with another female.
Just as a side note All fetuses initially start as female genitalia and either continue to grow as such or, at a critical point begin to grow into the male genitalia.
There also have been many medical cases where a baby has just been born and the baby exhibits ambiguous genitalia- that is, they can't tell whether the genitals are that of a male or a female. An immediate surgical procedure is made to reconstruct the genitalia to look more like female or male, depending on what it looks more like. It's easier to make ambiguous genitalia look more like a female than a male for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, many doctors misjudge and undergo surgery on a genetically male baby to make his genitalia look more female in nature and record on the birth certificate that the baby is female, accordingly. The male grows older, showing no interest in females and not undergoing the process of female adolescence. At this point, many times they are given hormone replacement therapy to encourage the process. Often times they consider themselves to be lesbians and rebel from society, only later to understand that they have testicles that never descended. There are relatively few cases like this, but it does happen and it leaves horrible emotional trauma on the family as well as the individual.
Other times there is a hormone imbalance that started in the womb of the mother. At a critical point during pregnancy, the fetus is showered with testosterone and this initiates the baby to have "male-wiring" in the brain and throughout the body. At this critical stage, if an intended female baby is showered with this hormone, problems do occur, and if a male baby does not get enough, again the wiring of the brain becomes "abnormal".
I didn't want to get into specifics so that I don't bore you. I hope this helped. The whole point is some ppl can have extra chromosomes they don't know about, while others could have been wired in the brain differently because of brain development during pregnancy. These are all cases of homosexuality being genetically based. But they are very few and far between. Nevertheless, they do exist.
Salam -
peace,
does that mean it is genetic disorder rather than "personal experience"?
soul2squeeze, is that really true for every "anti-straight person/abnormal in the sexual sense"? where did you find this information and how valid is it?
peace, rifat