Gambling or "Game of chances"?
-
peace
it's my sincere belief that God only prohibits for us things that are harmful and for our own benefits (remember God is in no need; Praiseworthy) , maybe if you look at it from that point of view it may help answer your question. I believe the Progressive translation has translated it as 'arrows of chance' as well. That's why I haven't gotten around to play the lottery, I wonder if this is prohibited?
-
peace
it's my sincere belief that God only prohibits for us things that are harmful and for our own benefits (remember God is in no need; Praiseworthy) , maybe if you look at it from that point of view it may help answer your question. I believe the Progressive translation has translated it as 'arrows of chance' as well. That's why I haven't gotten around to play the lottery, I wonder if this is prohibited?
I don't know bro, but according to orclemir definition, lotto must be forbidden as well
I believe the word maysir means obtaing money with ease "Yosr"
Peace
-
Peace bro
I think there is a contradiction in the above statements
if people will bet money on chess then this should fall under
Gambling is any game where money is involved
or what do you tihnk?
Peace
Salam brother.
I agree with you that "Gambling is any game where money is involved". This is the definition of gambling.
What I am asking is which of the two is prohibited "Gambling" or "Game of Chances".
If Gambling is prohibited then
I cannot bet money on chess.
If Game of Chances is prohibited then
I can bet money on chess because there is no chance involved.
It is not that I want to bet money on chess; I just want to get clarification on which of the two things Quran is prohibiting. These two are very different things.
-
Peace bro
I think there is a contradiction in the above statements
if people will bet money on chess then this should fall under
Gambling is any game where money is involved
or what do you tihnk?
Peace
Salam brother.
I agree with you that "Gambling is any game where money is involved". This is the definition of gambling.
What I am asking is which of the two is prohibited "Gambling" or "Game of Chances".
If Gambling is prohibited then
I cannot bet money on chess.
If Game of Chances is prohibited then
I can bet money on chess because there is no chance involved.
It is not that I want to bet money on chess; I just want to get clarification on which of the two things Quran is prohibiting. These two are very different things.
Peace bro
I play chess for 32 years, and I can assure you that there is still a chance in it, the chance is simply your opponent makes a mistake, it happned with me many times, i defeated far better players because of mistakes they did and i lost to many weaker players due to mistakes that i have done
Salam
-
Peace bro
I play chess for 32 years, and I can assure you that there is still a chance in it, the chance is simply your opponent makes a mistake, it happned with me many times, i defeated far better players because of mistakes they did and i lost to many weaker players due to mistakes that i have done
Salam
Salams brother AhmedBahgat
Making a mistake in chess is attributed to a skill level of the player. A player has a control over this event. A skillful player is less likely to make a mistake in the same situation where a novice player would. To me "Chances" would refer to the random event like rolling of a dice or a shuffling of cards. These events are beyond control of a player. Making a mistake in chess is akin to Rogers Federer doing a double fault in Tennis serve.
For the sake of discussion lets assume that chess is a game of chances. Or lets say X is a game of chances. Does Quran allow us to play game X even if we are not betting money in it?
Once that is settled than we can discuss which games would come in category X.
-
Peace bro
I play chess for 32 years, and I can assure you that there is still a chance in it, the chance is simply your opponent makes a mistake, it happned with me many times, i defeated far better players because of mistakes they did and i lost to many weaker players due to mistakes that i have done
Salam
Salams brother AhmedBahgat
Making a mistake in chess is attributed to a skill level of the player. A player has a control over this event. A skillful player is less likely to make a mistake in the same situation where a novice player would. To me "Chances" would refer to the random event like rolling of a dice or a shuffling of cards. These events are beyond control of a player. Making a mistake in chess is akin to Rogers Federer doing a double fault in Tennis serve.
For the sake of discussion lets assume that chess is a game of chances. Or lets say X is a game of chances. Does Quran allow us to play game X even if we are not betting money in it?
Once that is settled than we can discuss which games would come in category X.
Peace bro
The Quran didn't forbid playing games if there is no money involved
for the chess example, i guess lacking skill should be considered "A CHANCE", unless you mean by chance "Luck"? which is totally differnent story, but let's take any X game that is based on skills and someone wants to bid on the skillful player, this means clearly "Mayser", because when the skillfull player wins the winnings will come with ease, in fact that one who bid, did nothing at all, so it has to be forbidden
Salam
-
After looking up the meaning for the root 'y-s-r/ya-sin-ra' I'm a bit confused because it means 'easy'.
So is 'maysir' something easy then? Easy money?
-
After looking up the meaning for the root 'y-s-r/ya-sin-ra' I'm a bit confused because it means 'easy'.
So is 'maysir' something easy then? Easy money?
yes mate, it means easy money
peace
-
peace,
i don't think a game like chess (a game of skill) can be considered gambling. Gambling would be something in which we are throwing our money away because we have no control over the outcome. We can get rich, but we can lose everything. Gambling is irresponsible and can be addictive.
I think earning money in skill based games, like the pros do, has nothing wrong with it. But when we are not the pros, and we bet on which side will win, that is gambling because any side can play with more skill on a given day. And even if we're playing the game ourselves, betting isn't that good.But whatever I say, or someone else says, or the Quran says, what it comes down to is using our brains when we have to. Gambling isn't just card games, and it doesn't have to involve money. Gambling can be anything. We have to figure out when something is bad for us and when something is not. We can't make a list of games we shouldn't play, or give the word gambling a constant, unchanging meaning.
We should be able to figure out what is wrong and what is right, and when it's wrong and when it's right. -
yes mate, it means easy money
Salams Ahmed Bahgat
So maysir means "easy money". That answers my question.
I was confused between the following
"Quran is asking us not to put money in games"
"Quran is asking us not to play games of chance/luck".If maysir means "easy money" then the first statement is true.
To me chance and luck are the same thing. I know for you it is not. But I get my answer irrespective of that.
I dont know why translators have translated maysir to "game of chance" instead of "gambling". Technically speaking "game of chance" and "gambling" are two different things.
Thanks.
-
I wonder why Khalifa translated 590 as "O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed."
He included both "gambling" and "games of chance" but this has to be a mistranslation. The "games of chance" refers to "azlam" which other translators translate as "divining-arrows." Lane's does say the Z-L-M root refers to "arrows."
Anyone have insights into this?
-
yes mate, it means easy money
Salams Ahmed Bahgat
So maysir means "easy money". That answers my question.
I was confused between the following
"Quran is asking us not to put money in games"
"Quran is asking us not to play games of chance/luck".If maysir means "easy money" then the first statement is true.
To me chance and luck are the same thing. I know for you it is not. But I get my answer irrespective of that.
I dont know why translators have translated maysir to "game of chance" instead of "gambling". Technically speaking "game of chance" and "gambling" are two different things.
Thanks.
Peace OracleMir & Ahmed Bahgat,
Careful with the claims, guys. So far I've only hinted that 'y-s-r' means easy. To define it as 'easy money' or even 'money placed in bets' is speculation . But the translators translate it as 'gambling' or 'games of chance'. We need opinions from those more literate in Arab grammar than us.
-
yes mate, it means easy money
Salams Ahmed Bahgat
So maysir means "easy money". That answers my question.
I was confused between the following
"Quran is asking us not to put money in games"
"Quran is asking us not to play games of chance/luck".If maysir means "easy money" then the first statement is true.
To me chance and luck are the same thing. I know for you it is not. But I get my answer irrespective of that.
I dont know why translators have translated maysir to "game of chance" instead of "gambling". Technically speaking "game of chance" and "gambling" are two different things.
Thanks.
Peace OracleMir & Ahmed Bahgat,
Careful with the claims, guys. So far I've only hinted that 'y-s-r' means easy. To define it as 'easy money' or even 'money placed in bets' is speculation . But the translators translate it as 'gambling' or 'games of chance'. We need opinions from those more literate in Arab grammar than us.
Peace bro
mate i don't use the flawed root method to know the meaning, the word "easy" means "Yusr", the word "Maysir" is a known arabic word that means "Gamblling", therefore any sort of gambling whatever that is must be prohibited by the Quran
possibly i used the wrong expression "easy money" as indeed many can get theor money with ease not through gambling nor theft but through a legal action, Maysir only means Gamblling AND MUST BE MASCULINE, if you add a Ta marbotta to the end of it to make it feminine then we have another word that means "ease"
Peace
-
peace
why the root method is false?
-
Salam mate
i didn't say it is false, i said it is flawed, and this means it can be false and right
for example ladder means "Sillim" and it is the same letters as Silm, it just has differnt tashkil, so why it does not mean Peace then?
Salam
-
Peace Ahmed,
Sorry, I forgot you're a native Arab speaker! So, if maysir is commonly understood as 'gambling' then we can be sure that the traditional interpretation is still correct.
How about 'games of chance' then? CavemanDoctor has shown us 590 in which there is 'arrows', al-adzlam , translated as 'games of chance'. Is this correct?
-
Peace Ahmed,
Sorry, I forgot you're a native Arab speaker! So, if maysir is commonly understood as 'gambling' then we can be sure that the traditional interpretation is still correct.
How about 'games of chance' then? CavemanDoctor has shown us 590 in which there is 'arrows', al-adzlam , translated as 'games of chance'. Is this correct?
Peace bro
Regarding Al Azlam, I have to say that this is a tough arabic word and is not common at all, at least in my time, unlike Maysir, i believe it was sort of a game they played back then and was based on throwing arrows or picking small stones from a bag, the bottom line is this, if money is involved then it is forbidden, in fact verse 53 mentioned Al Azlam and the action associated with it "Tastaqsimo Bi Al Azlam" which means, usingthis sort of chance games to try to know the future, Tastaqsimo here can mean two things, it can mean seeking the rain, and it can also mean dividing the Rizq of Allah, in fact this was a habit back then where they used to divide the favours of Allah "Rizq" via "Istiqsam Al Azlam"
but please forgive my ignorance if i made a mistake regarding this tough word as i really can't figure out for ceratin what it means, but it sounds like looking for chances based on luck and totally ignoring that Allah is the one that everything in this world is under his mighty control
Allah knows best
Peace