Umrah
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As Salaamu Alaika Dr. ayman
Peace IQO,
It is good to hear from you and to see you back on the forum.
Thanks for the welcome and kind words. I get very busy sometimes with my family and work since both are very large. ;D alhamdulilaah....But I miss the exchange of dialogue and learning on here when I am away. This forum reminds me to continue to study and grow and not just relax with what I already think that I know and know that I don't know.
I don?t think that it is just the Jews. All cultures and people had some kind of harvest festival.
I think that for the Jews it is probably more like the feast of Sukkot, which starts at the fourth full-moon following the summer solstice (so it takes place in September or October). This would also be the last of the inviolable full-moons. The festival lasts for 7 days. The two days after it are separate holidays but are commonly considered part of the Sukkot festival. So it is 9 days in total, which is close to the 10 days we know about from the great reading.
I agree that most cultures had some type of harvest festival in ancient times, and some still carry them over today. Many associated with them the giving of thanks to their god or gods. But I dont think that "hajj" is about harvesting, although the sacrificing of animals and the feeding of the poor, etc. therewith are integral.
Also, since many cultures celebrate a harvest feast, I dont see how inviting people from all over the earth to yours would make them likely to travel just to eat with you when they can experience the same thing at home. I think a feast is a part of "hajj", but not is only or primary focus.
What are those other rituals that are not related to the feast?
2196
Transliteration Waatimmoo alhajja waalAAumrata lillahi fa-in ohsirtum fama istaysara mina alhadyi wala tahliqoo ruoosakum hatta yablugha alhadyu mahillahu faman kana minkum mareedan aw bihi athan min ra/sihi fafidyatun min siyamin aw sadaqatin aw nusukin fa-itha amintum faman tamattaAAa bialAAumrati ila alhajji fama istaysara mina alhadyi faman lam yajid fasiyamu thalathati ayyamin fee alhajji wasabAAatin itha rajaAAtum tilka AAasharatun kamilatun thalika liman lam yakun ahluhu hadiree almasjidi alharami waittaqoo Allaha waiAAlamoo anna Allaha shadeedu alAAiqabi
Literal And complete the pilgrimage and the visiting of God's House in other than the four forbidden sacred months to God, so if you were restricted/surrounded , so what became easy/possible , from the offerings , and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its place/destination, so who was from you sick/diseased, or with him mild harm from his head so a ransom/redemption from fasting , or charity, or rituals or methods of worship/offerings , so if you became safe/secure, so who enjoyed with the visiting of God's House in other than the four forbidden/sacred months, to the pilgrimage, so what became easy/possible from the offering, so who does not find, so fasting three days in the pilgrimage, and seven(days) if you returned, that is ten complete (days), that (is) to whom his family was not present/attending, (at) the Mosque the Forbidden/Sacred, and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) strong (severe in) the punishment.Fasting during the "hajj", although a secondary command, doesn't go along with being part of a feast, i.e. the main purpose for going on the "hajj".
2197
Transliteration Alhajju ashhurun maAAloomatun faman farada feehinna alhajja fala rafatha wala fusooqa wala jidala fee alhajji wama tafAAaloo min khayrin yaAAlamhu Allahu watazawwadoo fa-inna khayra alzzadi alttaqwa waittaqooni ya olee al-albabi
Literal The pilgrimage (are in) known months, so who made the pilgrimage a the duty/specified on himself in them (the four known months), so no obscenity/indecency (intercourse) , and no debauchery , and no arguing/disputing in the pilgrimage, and what you make/do from goodness/generosity , God knows (of) it, and be provided (prepared), so that (the) provision's best (is) the fear and obedience, and fear and obey Me, you (owners) of the pure minds/hearts.The items in bold don't go in line with purpose of the "hajj" to be only for feasting. Why prohibit one from his wife during this time? Why no arguing/disputing doing a feast only?
2198
Transliteration Laysa AAalaykum junahun an tabtaghoo fadlan min rabbikum fa-itha afadtum min AAarafatin faothkuroo Allaha AAinda almashAAari alharami waothkuroohu kama hadakum wa-in kuntum min qablihi lamina alddalleena
Literal No offense/guilt/sin (is) on you that you desire grace/favour from your Lord, so if you flowed/spread from Arafat (a mountain), so mention/remember God at the Forbidden/Sacred Place of Worship , and mention/remember Him as He guided you, and that truly you were from before Him from (E) the misguided.What does flowing down from an elevated place have to do with a feast? What is this ritual and it's significance?
2199
Transliteration Thumma afeedoo min haythu afada alnnasu waistaghfiroo Allaha inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun
Literal Then flow/spread from where/when the people flowed/spread , and ask for God's forgiveness, that God (is) forgiving, most merciful.Where is it that the people flow/spread from and why? How is this related only to feasting?
2200
Transliteration Fa-itha qadaytum manasikakum faothkuroo Allaha kathikrikum abaakum aw ashadda thikran famina alnnasi man yaqoolu rabbana atina fee alddunya wama lahu fee al-akhirati min khalaqin
Literal So if you accomplished/carried out your rituals or methods worship , so mention/remember God as you mention/remember your fathers or stronger remembrance, so from the people who say "Our Lord, give us in the present world." And for him (there is) no share of blessing/fortune in the end (other life).Which rituals or methods of worship are implied here? How are only related to feasting and not a bigger purpose for the "hajj"?
Also, what are those other signs where ?feast? doesn?t fit?
Actually, the definition of "feast" doesn't fit not because of it not being able to be used in an exact ayat; but rather because afterwards it's definition doesn't suit all the ayat that follow the ayat that it would be used in. For example 2227 through 2228. You could probably insert "party" instead of feast in all the ayat and they make some since also. But that doesn't make it an acceptable translation of "hajj", especially since there is nothing in the root to suggest this definition, nor has anyone that I heard of in history every used it in this way. Please correct me about this history if I am unaware of it.
I disagree because according to 2227 Abraham invited people with the ?hagg?. How can you invite people with a pilgrimage? You can invite people from a particular religion or sect but not all people. The only tool that would allow you to invite all people is a feast.
Peace,
Ayman
Pilgrimage 1. A journey to a sacred place or shrine. 2. A long journey or search, esp. one of exalted purpose or moral significance.
I think you can invite people who don't live at the "site" to witness the benefits and guidance given by Allah. Obviously not all will accept the invitation just as all don't accept the invitation to accept Al Quran, but you can invite them, or call them to it with propogation. I think you can and we should invite all people to follow the Deen of Al Islam as defined in Al Quran. I believe that is what Allah is telling us, to invite all people too, not just invite our own believers. Calling or inviting people to the truth and allowing those that are not considered believers or muslims yet to come to the site and hear the message of Al Quran from Allah, is not the same as allowing those who are not coming to hear and/or accept the message from Allah to His Al Masjid Al Haram (i.e. pagans that are not coming to participate in the "hajj" rituals).
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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This forum reminds me to continue to study and grow and not just relax with what I already think that I know and know that I don't know.
Peace IQO, this is a powerfull reminder '(. Thank you.
Fasting during the "hajj", although a secondary command, doesn't go along with being part of a feast, i.e. the main purpose for going on the "hajj".
You have the point.
Pilgrimage 1. A journey to a sacred place or shrine. 2. A long journey or search, esp. one of exalted purpose or moral significance.
Would you kind enough to elaborate the term "Umrah". I would like to understand the difference.
Calling or inviting people to the truth and allowing those that are not considered believers or muslims yet to come to the site and hear the message of Al Quran from Allah, is not the same as allowing those who are not coming to hear and/or accept the message from Allah to His Al Masjid Al Haram (i.e. pagans that are not coming to participate in the "hajj" rituals).
I would say, that Hajj must be to specific location. It is a unique place, non allegorical. In this place, the visitor can view and witness themselves the religious civilization, history and archaeological remains of monotheist origin. Thus for non-believer. atheist or pagan, the visit to such place is an eye opener towards discovery of God and finally submission. Travel itself is a rewarding effort. Following are the link for travel related proverbs http//www.itravelnet.com/useful/travelproverbs.html
peace IQO, Ayman and All.
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As Salaamu Alaika Ashraf,
Peace IQO, this is a powerfull reminder '(. Thank you.
You have the point.
Would you kind enough to elaborate the term "Umrah". I would like to understand the difference.
Unfortunately, at this time, all I can give you on umrah will be the following; but Allah willing I will add some comments soon
= Ayn-Miim-Ra = to inhabit, dwell, mend, repair/revive, tend, build, promote, cultivate, make habitable, to make better, to develop, populate, to serve/uphold/observe/regard, to visit, to colonize, aimed at it, frequently visit, a visit in which is the cultivation of love/affection, repairing to an inhabited place.
perform a sacred visitation, minor pilgrimmage, pilgrimmage with fewer rites.
to remain alive (save life), to live, life, age, long-life, old-age.amara vb. (I) - perf. act. 309 x2, impf. act. 917, 918, pcple. pass. 524,
amr n.m. 1572,
imarah n.f. 919,
imran n. prop. 333, 335, 6612,
umrah n.f. 2196 x2,
umur n.m. 1016, 1670, 2144, 225, 2618, 2845, 3511,ammara vb. (II) - impf. act. 3537, 3668, impf. pass. 296, 3511, pcple. pass. 3511,
itamara vb. (VIII) - 2158,
istamara vb. (X) - perf. act. 1161
Lane's Lexicon, Volume 5, pages 438, 439, 440, 441, 442
I would say, that Hajj must be to specific location. It is a unique place, non allegorical. In this place, the visitor can view and witness themselves the religious civilization, history and archaeological remains of monotheist origin. Thus for non-believer. atheist or pagan, the visit to such place is an eye opener towards discovery of God and finally submission. Travel itself is a rewarding effort. Following are the link for travel related proverbs http//www.itravelnet.com/useful/travelproverbs.html
peace IQO, Ayman and All.
Very well said, alhamdulilaah. angel
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Peace IQO,
Thanks for the welcome and kind words. I get very busy sometimes with my family and work since both are very large. ;D alhamdulilaah....But I miss the exchange of dialogue and learning on here when I am away. This forum reminds me to continue to study and grow and not just relax with what I already think that I know and know that I don't know.
Same here.
I agree that most cultures had some type of harvest festival in ancient times, and some still carry them over today. Many associated with them the giving of thanks to their god or gods. But I dont think that "hajj" is about harvesting, although the sacrificing of animals and the feeding of the poor, etc. therewith are integral.
The god doesn't want to put hardship on us. When do you think is the natural best time to have a feast? Is it when food is scarce or is it when food is plentiful during the time of the harvest (which is also when livestock is most plentiful)?
Also, since many cultures celebrate a harvest feast, I dont see how inviting people from all over the earth to yours would make them likely to travel just to eat with you when they can experience the same thing at home. I think a feast is a part of "hajj", but not is only or primary focus.
Not many cultures have free food with their feast. Also, the feast is one purpose for the people to come. Another purpose is to witness benefits. Naturally, the way they witness benefits is through trade and commerce. An international feast that brings people from all over the world is a natural place for trade to flourish. So it is not just the free food but also unparalleled commerce opportunities that would bring people.
Fasting during the "hajj", although a secondary command, doesn't go along with being part of a feast, i.e. the main purpose for going on the "hajj".
Fasting and having a feast go along fine. In fact, during the time of fasting, people have a feast everyday at sunset.
The items in bold don't go in line with purpose of the "hajj" to be only for feasting. Why prohibit one from his wife during this time? Why no arguing/disputing doing a feast only?
There is a prohibition on debauchery, which is prohibited all the time. So it is natural for it to be prohibited during a feast where people from all over are gathered and we must present ourselves in the best manner to set an example. Same goes with arguing. We shouldn?t argue with people about anything, including religion even if they are idol-worshippers. As for intercourse, one shouldn?t do it while the feast is going on. If one spends the whole time being intimate with his spouse then that defeats the purpose. They might as well stay at home and not bother going to the feast.
2198
Transliteration Laysa AAalaykum junahun an tabtaghoo fadlan min rabbikum fa-itha afadtum min AAarafatin faothkuroo Allaha AAinda almashAAari alharami waothkuroohu kama hadakum wa-in kuntum min qablihi lamina alddalleena
Literal No offense/guilt/sin (is) on you that you desire grace/favour from your Lord, so if you flowed/spread from Arafat (a mountain), so mention/remember God at the Forbidden/Sacred Place of Worship , and mention/remember Him as He guided you, and that truly you were from before Him from (E) the misguided.What does flowing down from an elevated place have to do with a feast? What is this ritual and it's significance?
There is no ?flowing down from an elevated place?. See 1061, 750, etc. to see that the meaning can be ?to be supplied plentifully? or ?to participate plentifully?. Of course ?Arafat? is not the name of some mountain. It is a common noun that has to do with getting to know one another. This is why the god made us into nations and tribes (see 4913). Since the feast is a place that brings different nations and tribes from all over the world, it is a natural place to accomplish 4913, not to overflow from some mountain.
2199
Transliteration Thumma afeedoo min haythu afada alnnasu waistaghfiroo Allaha inna Allaha ghafoorun raheemun
Literal Then flow/spread from where/when the people flowed/spread , and ask for God's forgiveness, that God (is) forgiving, most merciful.Where is it that the people flow/spread from and why? How is this related only to feasting?
Not ?flow/spread? but ?supply/participate plentifully?. What do we supply/participate plentifully in? We participate plentifully in free food, commerce, and getting to know one another.
2200
Transliteration Fa-itha qadaytum manasikakum faothkuroo Allaha kathikrikum abaakum aw ashadda thikran famina alnnasi man yaqoolu rabbana atina fee alddunya wama lahu fee al-akhirati min khalaqin
Literal So if you accomplished/carried out your rituals or methods worship , so mention/remember God as you mention/remember your fathers or stronger remembrance, so from the people who say "Our Lord, give us in the present world." And for him (there is) no share of blessing/fortune in the end (other life).Which rituals or methods of worship are implied here? How are only related to feasting and not a bigger purpose for the "hajj"?
What are those ?rituals or methods of worship?? If those words really mean ?rituals or methods of worship? then why did the god not tell us what they are? I don?t think that they are really ?rituals or methods of worship?. In fact, according to 2234, the purpose of ?nusuk? again has to do specifically with the livestock. So again the emphasis is on food.
Actually, the definition of "feast" doesn't fit not because of it not being able to be used in an exact ayat; but rather because afterwards it's definition doesn't suit all the ayat that follow the ayat that it would be used in. For example 2227 through 2228. You could probably insert "party" instead of feast in all the ayat and they make some since also. But that doesn't make it an acceptable translation of "hajj", especially since there is nothing in the root to suggest this definition, nor has anyone that I heard of in history every used it in this way. Please correct me about this history if I am unaware of it.
According to the people of the book, the word ?hagg? means feast (I already showed you the Hebrew meaning). This is a historical fact. I don?t know why you or I haven?t heard about it sooner but in the so-called Islamic world, there are many ?inconvenient truths? that people haven?t heard about.
The people of the book understood it this way. Mohamed didn?t invent anything new or bring something that was alien to the people of the book. He didn?t tell them ?hagg? doesn?t mean what you think and now it suddenly means ?pilgrimage?. He confirmed the truth that the people of the book already knew.
Pilgrimage 1. A journey to a sacred place or shrine. 2. A long journey or search, esp. one of exalted purpose or moral significance.
I think you can invite people who don't live at the "site" to witness the benefits and guidance given by Allah. Obviously not all will accept the invitation just as all don't accept the invitation to accept Al Quran, but you can invite them, or call them to it with propogation. I think you can and we should invite all people to follow the Deen of Al Islam as defined in Al Quran. I believe that is what Allah is telling us, to invite all people too, not just invite our own believers. Calling or inviting people to the truth and allowing those that are not considered believers or muslims yet to come to the site and hear the message of Al Quran from Allah, is not the same as allowing those who are not coming to hear and/or accept the message from Allah to His Al Masjid Al Haram (i.e. pagans that are not coming to participate in the "hajj" rituals).Why would people from other religions come to a religious pilgrimage that doesn?t pertain to their religion? The reality is that a religious pilgrimage will only attract people from a certain religion. Nobody, even people who adhere to that religion, would want to go on this pilgrimage without some kind of bribe. This is why Hadiths were invented to tell people that their sins will be forgiven and they will return as newborn babies if they go to this pilgrimage. How many so-called Muslims would go to the so-called Hajj if the Saudis announce that the pilgrimage doesn?t result in all our sins being forgiven? Probably very few people would go since apart from some trade in items such as Chinese-made prayer rugs, there are really not much real benefits that one can get from Mecca. This is why you see many old people in the pilgrimage who are going there to have their sins forgiven just in time before they die. You know this as well as I do and you may even know some of those people. This is reality. The only way that you can attract people from all over the world is through the feast and its accompanying benefits.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ashraf,
Appreciate if anybody could elaborate "famantamattaAAa bialAAumrati ila alhajji famaistaysara mina alhadyi". Thanks for your precious time. Probably there have been a thread before which I miss.
It means "so enjoy prosperity until the feast then what is available from the livestock". It all has to do with the feast.
This is why a war was started over the livestock not reaching its determined place (see 4825). The livestock is an essential part of the feast. Without livestock, there is no feast.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Ashraf,
I would say, that Hajj must be to specific location. It is a unique place, non allegorical. In this place, the visitor can view and witness themselves the religious civilization, history and archaeological remains of monotheist origin. Thus for non-believer. atheist or pagan, the visit to such place is an eye opener towards discovery of God and finally submission. Travel itself is a rewarding effort. Following are the link for travel related proverbs http//www.itravelnet.com/useful/travelproverbs.html
I agree. That place is the inviolable house. The "al-bayt al-haram"/inviolable house is not to be confused with "al-masjid al-ahram"/inviolable institution of obedience.
Peace,
Ayman
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It means "so enjoy prosperity until the feast then what is available from the livestock". It all has to do with the feast.
This is why a war was started over the livestock not reaching its determined place (see 4825). The livestock is an essential part of the feast. Without livestock, there is no feast.
Salam Ayman, thanks for your input...still in digesting process pr
I agree. That place is the inviolable house. The "al-bayt al-haram"/inviolable house is not to be confused with "al-masjid al-ahram"/inviolable institution of obedience.
Probably this is a bit off topic but is this houses (buyut) mentioned below have any archaeological or geographical landmarks indication of the place that we are trying to understand ? Or is this purely allegorical..
- God is the Light of the heavens and the Earth. The example of His light is like a concave mirror within a lamp, the lamp is within a glass, the glass is like a radiant planet, which is lit from a blessed olive tree that is neither of the east nor of the west, its oil nearly gives off light even if not touched by fire. Light upon light, God guides to His light whom He pleases. And God sets forth parables for the people, and God is aware of all things.
- In sanctuaries that God has allowed to be raised and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein day and night.
Appreciate for any input...
peace All.
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Peace,
Probably this is a bit off topic but is this houses (buyut) mentioned below have any archaeological or geographical landmarks indication of the place that we are trying to understand ? Or is this purely allegorical..
- God is the Light of the heavens and the Earth. The example of His light is like a concave mirror within a lamp, the lamp is within a glass, the glass is like a radiant planet, which is lit from a blessed olive tree that is neither of the east nor of the west, its oil nearly gives off light even if not touched by fire. Light upon light, God guides to His light whom He pleases. And God sets forth parables for the people, and God is aware of all things.
- In sanctuaries that God has allowed to be raised and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein day and night.
I think verse 35 stands on its own and is as allegorical as it can get.
God is the Light of the heavens and the Earth. The example of His light is like a concave mirror within a lamp, the lamp is within a glass, the glass is like a radiant planet, which is lit from a blessed olive tree that is neither of the east nor of the west, its oil nearly gives off light even if not touched by fire. Light upon light, God guides to His light whom He pleases. And God sets forth parables for the people, and God is aware of all things.
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It means "so enjoy prosperity until the feast then what is available from the livestock". It all has to do with the feast.
This is why a war was started over the livestock not reaching its determined place (see 4825). The livestock is an essential part of the feast. Without livestock, there is no feast.
Peace Ayman,
Following are various reconstruction
"famantamattaAAa bialAAumrati ila alhajji famaistaysara mina alhadyi"
- "so enjoy with the prosperity until the feast then what is available from the livestock"
- "so enjoy with the abundance until the feast then what is available from the livestock"
- "so enjoy with the dwelling until the feast then what is available from the livestock"
- "so enjoy with the visit until the feast then what is available from the livestock"
- "so enjoy with the visit until the pilgrimage then what is available from the livestock"
Ayman, IQO or anybody...Im bit slow here..I couldnt get thru any of the above..can you give the easiest reconstruction hypno
Salam.
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Peace,
I think verse 35 stands on its own and is as allegorical as it can get.
God is the Light of the heavens and the Earth. The example of His light is like a concave mirror within a lamp, the lamp is within a glass, the glass is like a radiant planet, which is lit from a blessed olive tree that is neither of the east nor of the west, its oil nearly gives off light even if not touched by fire. Light upon light, God guides to His light whom He pleases. And God sets forth parables for the people, and God is aware of all things.
Peace Abdelilah,
Parables normally something that exist and comprehended by the quran audience in 7th century. I just wonder where we could find a place of residents on northern arabia during that time that used to have radiant glass lamp as a common household fittings..probably it gives clues to the sanctuaries location..eg vineyard parables in other verses give clues of climatic/geography condition of the audience..
peace
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Peace Abdelilah,
Parables normally something that exist and comprehended by the quran audience in 7th century. I just wonder where we could find a place of residents on northern arabia during that time that used to have radiant glass lamp as a common household fittings..probably it gives clues to the sanctuaries location..eg vineyard parables in other verses give clues of climatic/geography condition of the audience..
peace
Where is the proof for that? What arab could have seen "waves beneath waves" or other descriptions given by the quran?
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Where is the proof for that? What arab could have seen "waves beneath waves" or other descriptions given by the quran?
peace OPF,
3131 Have you not seen the ships sailing the sea, carrying God's provisions, to show you some of His signs? In that are signs for every one who is patient, thankful
With so many instances of sea and ships in the Great Reading, I dont think the target audiences are not well versed with the subject matter, unless we are limiting ourselves to biblical narrations/hadith writer conspiracy, that prophet Mohamed is a shepherd, simple minded desert dweller, illiterate (cannot read and write) and know nothings outside their world. Probably a lot of them is a sailor/ex-sailor/shipping magnate, why not.
Salam.
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The only people who could have seen "waves beneath waves", not "ships sailing the sea" are drowned.
Same for the descriptions of hell & heaven. Those parables definitely can exist and could exist, the question is whether the Arabs observed them, as opposed to knowing about their possible existence.