New version of adams story?
-
Peace all. I have been thinking about the possible meaning of the story of adam in the garden...Here are my thoughts;
Allah=reality. Iblis=illusion. Angels=knowledge. Adam=will. Garden= self-actualisation and peace. Banishment from garden=severe stress from innappropriate behaviour...Reality(allah.) told the angels (creatures that act as knowledge or communication signs to other creatures.) that a free-will (adam.) would appear,and that it would be best to comply and help this free-will...The angels all did (after some hesitation when addressing allah/reality.) knowing that reality suggested this was a good course of action. (and reality knew better than them.)...One of the angels (iblis.) refused,based on illusion and neglecting reality. ( leading to pride.)...He thought he was superior to the 'new' will,even though reality suggested it was best to help and comply with adam...And helping and complying with adam did not suggest inferiority to adam,but that adam and the angels (including iblis.) had different purposes and functions...
Thus illusions (shayateen/iblis.) are a form of knowledge (angels.) which are hidden and partially understood (jinn.) and these jinn (incomplete or hidden forms of knowledge,eg 37.) can be misapplied to fit a misunderstaning,or rejection of reality(allah.),and thus can cause harm,and loss of correct and appropriate purpose/function/behaviour for an individual in life...My ideas are preliminary,and there may be things that need modifying,changing or tweaking..I appreciate any input to improve this understanding...Just food for thought...
Peace all. -
Peace,
Reality(allah. agree, but He has a conciousness, as He created our conciousnesses.
angels (creatures that act as knowledge or communication signs to other creatures.) don't agree.
Mailikah mean controllers and refer to the forces and laws of creation, it refer to the energy fields which deliver the messages.
that a free-will (adam.) don't agree, as all has a free-will, only we are the ones that are to arrogant to accept God's guidance. Adam comes from ancient sanaskrite referring to the first peoples, if i'm not mistaken.
One of the angels (iblis.) This is not a seperate being, as it always used to be a name for the evil side of man. And it is called a power that controls us/has authority on our will only if we allow it, it became hidden(jinn) for our understanding.Have a popquiz; If heaven is physical, how then it is possible for iblis to deceit adam, while iblis was already evicted from heaven and adam still was present in heaven? It can only mean heaven is not physical, but a state of understanding that will produce results that are comparednwith rivers of milk.
Enquirer, i will send you an article i'm busy with that coincides directly with this thread, would like your opinion....
Peace
-
Peace be upon you,
I have
The God/Allah = Consciousness (the same consciousness that flows through every single being)
Controllers (malaika) = Forces/Energies of the universe. They make up all physical things, including thoughts (which are physical, just not phenomenal, they are part of the nuemonal realm)
Shayteen = emotions. Controllers(energies) in motion behind a specific idea.
Jinn= hidden faculties. They include malaika and shayteen.
Garden = The spirit(nafs) which is all of the energies combined, it is the matrix through which the consciousness experiences life. Your nafs is your magical garden! Get busy tending to it! )
Iblis= desperate one. It is the personality trait of one who follow emotions rather than leading emotions.
I look foward to this thread greatly!!! ;D
-
Peace,
Reality(allah. agree, but He has a conciousness, as He created our conciousnesses.
angels (creatures that act as knowledge or communication signs to other creatures.) don't agree.
Mailikah mean controllers and refer to the forces and laws of creation, it refer to the energy fields which deliver the messages.
that a free-will (adam.) don't agree, as all has a free-will, only we are the ones that are to arrogant to accept God's guidance. Adam comes from ancient sanaskrite referring to the first peoples, if i'm not mistaken.
One of the angels (iblis.) This is not a seperate being, as it always used to be a name for the evil side of man. And it is called a power that controls us/has authority on our will only if we allow it, it became hidden(jinn) for our understanding.Have a popquiz; If heaven is physical, how then it is possible for iblis to deceit adam, while iblis was already evicted from heaven and adam still was present in heaven? It can only mean heaven is not physical, but a state of understanding that will produce results that are comparednwith rivers of milk.
Enquirer, i will send you an article i'm busy with that coincides directly with this thread, would like your opinion....
Peace
Salam,
What you wrote is good, but saying Allah got conciousness is going beyound our understanding.
Peace
-
I know, it was more, that saying God is reality, sounds as if he has no thinking, that it is lifeless. That it lays beyond us i 100% agree. It was meant to emphasize that God has will, goals,thoughts and so on, although of course it is beyond us.
-
Peace be upon you Pheonix1,
how is our nafs the garden?
Because "you" are nothing but consciousness and what you do is WILL. You are not conscious, you are consciousnes itself. Everything around this consciousness is "the garden". The physical body/physical world is the densest portion of this garden. The Garden is "energy/matter".
I forgot to add that
Adam= verbal intellect
His wife = visual intellectYou will notice that your verbal faculty defines and names, deals with HEARING, therefore "his wife" does not have a name because she deals with visual pictures, eyesight.
The story of Adam and his wife in the magical garden is about each and every one of us. We have never really left the garden, the fall is just in our identification with the spirit(energy/matter) rather than the SELF(consciousness/will)
-
Salaams arnold ,all,
Arnold said
?Have a popquiz??.while iblis was already evicted from heaven?..?
WAS HE REALLY?
Then how was he going to do the following?
007.017
YUSUFALI "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."May he was merely rejected !
But how about this for you as a quiz
007.024
YUSUFALI (Allah) said "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."
007.025
YUSUFALI He said "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."Will this ayah?s hold water when people start to die in space as they travel outwards.
Salaams.
-
Peace,
Quote
May he was merely rejected !and he is also gonna reject being thrown in hell then? get real....You can reject an order, but not the consequences of the rejection. This is throughout the whole Quran...It is a methaphor that sjeitan, your rebellious doing and thinking doesn't belong in djenna, the higher thinking. In quraish arabic, it doesn't refer to a real creature, but your 'evil'side. This concept of a real creature, came through influence of the christians and persians. The you will say, i read it so in the Quran, nobody thaught me this. But you forget that you say in your surroundings that everybody around approached it as a creature. You never thought even that it could be a metaphor for your evil side. But then you will say; dear arnold; the sjeitan in the Quran talks! But then dear arnold says have you never used the metaphor; my haert told me this? my anger made me do this?
Get ye down. directly refers to this= With enmity between yourselves. The enmity is what gets us down as a society..Is the same as saying; i'm going to trip you, by sticking my foot in front in of you....you're gonna get down, by enmity between you, this is how you're gonna get down...
On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."
Where in this verse does it say we weren't already on earth? It just reminds us that this planet will be our dwelling place for a while. Is the same as saying the town you're living in is your dwellingplace for the time being. Does this incline in anyway that you're not present already in the town?It depends on the glasses you look through people. The word for hell in the Quran is Gehenna, which is a valley near Jerusalem where they used to sacrifice people to an idol called moluk. Why do people take the burning literaly but not the place? Because then you also have to take the position literaly, people ending up in Gehenna, 70km SE of Jerusalem, that will be one crowded valley............
And of course people will post the skin burning verse, but then i have to remind you, that God a lot of times uses real things to direct to the metaphor He really meants.
A good example is this surah, that tells about the burning of the heart as in columns....104 The Slanderer
Al-Humazah Makki
In the name of Allah, most benevolent, ever-merciful.
WOE TO EVERY slanderer, back-biter,
2. Who amasses wealth and hordes it.
3. Does he think his wealth will abide for ever with him?
4. By no means. He will be thrown into Hutama.
5. How will you comprehend what Hutama is?
6. It is the fire kindled by God
7. Which penetrates the hearts
8. (And) vaults them over
9. In extending columns.Of course the real fleshy heart can burn and be penetrated, but i think we all agree here that it is used metaphorically........
The heaven and hell concept that is ruling most people, was formed by the egyptians and greeks. Then will people say, i read out of the Quran, what are talking about? I'll give again an example; when a sunni reads; obey the messenger, he reads, follow hadith. We read; follow the Quran........It all depends on what your concepts were when you grew up. Nobody ever thaught people to approach djenna and gehenna as metaphors, but as real places. This is why most people will fight the metaphor concept, not because it is not true, but because they're defending their pre-programmed concept. They can't even imagine it could be wrong.......
Peace