New Glossary of quranic words.
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Peace taj. I will try to re-post in alphabetical order,and with translation of the arabic terms into the 'normally used' english terms...Give me a bit of time please... )
peace all. -
enquirer
Ok, good, but - regarding your ideas on zakat- aren?t you equating a process with its outcome then?
While a process may necessarily lead to a certain outcome the two are not identical.
They are semantically two different entities.
Furthemore, how then do you translate e.g. "azka" in 2/232. Please compare it to the same word in 18/19, before you say "most less with illusional thinking". -
one more thing
I don?t recall any verse that says that salat leads to zakat.
Please correct me if I?m wrong.
They are both presented as processes and "upholding salat and giving zakat" apear as a pair in al-qur'?n.
They belong together, obviously, but not does the one lead to the other. -
Peace leyla. Salat is the process,zakat is the result of the process...It is a continous,ongoing flux and cycle. Aideed safar has translated zakat as purification resulting from establishment of salat.( as have others.) 29;45 says salat prevents from fasha and munkar (or immorality.),this verse does not mention zakat...this could be because being 'away' from fasha and munkar is a state of zakat.(purity or freedom from illusionary thinking.) The arabic of the quran can support that 'atoo-uz-zakat' could mean going/arriving to purity,and not just 'giving' zakat.(393 is an example,'fA-TOOW bi-tawratii fa-tloow-haa',...,'bring the torah and recite it.' the 'ATOOW' means bring or produce,and so we can bring or produce purity of thought,or zakat,by the process of salat or contemplation.)
'Azka' in the verses you mention is in 'superlative' form,and can just mean the purest/best long-term outcome (2232.) or the purest/best food/sustenance to 'eat'/consume. For us to arrive at the 'best' long-term outcome we need to be as free as we can from illusionary thinking...
Hope this helps.
Peace all. -
Salaamun alaikum,
Good discussion going on here. Enquirer, I'd like to ask you some questions if I may vis-a-vis what you wrote below
Salat is the process,zakat is the result of the process...It is a continous,ongoing flux and cycle. Aideed safar has translated zakat as purification resulting from establishment of salat.( as have others.) 29;45 says salat prevents from fasha and munkar (or immorality.),this verse does not mention zakat...this could be because being 'away' from fasha and munkar is a state of zakat.(purity or freedom from illusionary thinking.)
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Why do you accept Aidid's authority to prove this interpretation? In other words, can you please show why you agree?
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Al-quraan uses the form 'lituf'ala' or 'la'alla' in order to show a resultancy of something (see 16/44 for 'litubayyin' and 2/183 for 'la'allakum tattaqoon'. If 'aqimus-salaat' results in 'ita'az-zakaat', then why is the phrasing not 'aqimus-salaat litu'tuzzakaat' ?
Good point regarding the prevention of al-fasha wal-munkar leading in this genesis of az-zakaat. It certainly does fit.
Regarding our past conversations, let me assure you that I'm commenting for the purpose of understanding your point further. Please do not take my post in an argumentative fashion.
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Peace mquran. I wrote that aideed safar has written this explanation,to show that i am not the only person who has thought of this idea. I think he has some superb ideas,but i dont believe in all that he writes...
I have come to this idea from my own understandings and experiences...It seems to fit many of the contexts in the quran,and makes the overall terms salat and zakat more coherent for me. Zakat suggests 'purity' to me in the arabic...and achieving or helping others to attain purity (or morality.) would seem to be the result of a process of thinking rationally/linking to reality.(salat.)
I think the 'wa' in between aquimus salat,and atoow-az-zakat can show a possible follow on effect...But,not every salat leads to purity.(as in surah 107,and other references.)
The reference i gave to 393 also shows an understanding,and example,that 'atoow' can also mean bring or produce...This could link the salat to the zakat,ie salat bringing or producing zakat.(purity.)
Im just wondering if 'resultancy' in arabic is confined to the two examples you gave,or 'fa' and 'wa' also can play a hand in resultancy?...Maybe anwar or some other linguists can help?
Peace all. ps;i appreaciate your post. -
EnqPeace mquran. I wrote that aideed safar has written this explanation,to show that i am not the only person who has thought of this idea. I think he has some superb ideas,but i dont believe in all that he writes...
I take the same stand.
I have come to this idea from my own understandings and experiences...It seems to fit many of the contexts in the quran,and makes the overall terms salat and zakat more coherent for me. Zakat suggests 'purity' to me in the arabic...and achieving or helping others to attain purity (or morality.) would seem to be the result of a process of thinking rationally/linking to reality.(salat.)
Fair enough. I suggest looking up 'tahara' as well as the word implies the same thing. Synonyms aren't possible in my reading of al-quraan so I would try to go about building up 'semantic webs' of each word. A good example of this exercise may be found in Toshihiko Izutsu's 'God and Man in the Koran Semantics of the Koranic Weltanschauung'.
I think the 'wa' in between aquimus salat,and atoow-az-zakat can show a possible follow on effect...But,not every salat leads to purity.(as in surah 107,and other references.)
Good point.
The reference i gave to 393 also shows an understanding,and example,that 'atoow' can also mean bring or produce...This could link the salat to the zakat,ie salat bringing or producing zakat.(purity.)
I agree that 'atu' means to produce or bring about. Fa'atu bi suuratin min mithlih (2/23) means 'produce or bring about a sura like it'
Im just wondering if 'resultancy' in arabic is confined to the two examples you gave,or 'fa' and 'wa' also can play a hand in resultancy?...Maybe anwar or some other linguists can help?
'fa' in my reading is causal and 'wa' is a general connector. 'wa' often shown equational relationships as well such as 2/231 where 'al-kitaab WA al-hikmah' is mentioned but the pronoun regarding them is 'bihi'.
Peace all. ps;i appreaciate your post.
As do I. Allow me to expound a little. My methodology of interpretation takes into account the fact that al-quraan is stated to be a 'kitaaban mutashabiha mathany' or a book with repeating similarities. Therefore, because al-quraan has already used the 'lituf'aal' form and the 'la'alla' connector in other places, I come to the conclusion that aqimus-salaat and 'aatuz-zakaat' cannot be a relationship where one causes the other. In fact, if you said that 'aqimus-salaat' IS 'aatuz-zakaat', it'd be easier for me to accept (35/18 certainly attests to this when it gives a direct connection to belief in the unseen in iqamus-salaat with 'whoever 'yatazakka'.
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Peace all.I believe that a lot of the words and terms of the quran have been interpreted wrongly...Here are some ideas...;
Peace enquirer,
Why a glossary? Why a too wide A duiscussion? The infrastructure of a wide discussion is weak! The replies become too long! People will be hesitant to come into a discussion with multiple SUBJECTS! Choose one subject!
My humble opinionPEACE,
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Peace alpha97. I picked a glossary because i think it can be useful...Anyone,feel free to discuss one topic at a time in this thread...
Otherwise i would have had to have a new thread for each topic.... o Not my idea of fun... )
Peace all. -
Peace bmbmm. Ok,i will try to get it done for tommorow...
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Peace all. I wont have time to organise the glossary today,because of family commitments...I will try to get it done this week...Sorry for delay...If anybody wants to cut and paste it in alphabetical order,and/or re-organise it,i would be most grateful )...And i dont have a copyright,so copy away... ...
Peace all. ps;bmbmm;if you get time you can re-organise it,my old friend... ) -
Peace all.I apologise for not getting the glossary updated this week....I will try next week... )