Verse 17:36 The New Idol???
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peace,
generally, if you treat the quran as a whole the message it wants to convey is pretty clear and consistent. people are confused because the detail it portrays does not match in our everyday language. that is why muslims have made many attempts to translate it in the easiest translation for the people of their society could understand.
let me show you how i judge the quran
when i used to be a sunni, i learned that the 1st surah(the key
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i am soory (i accidently hit enter, didn't finish my message -[).
as i was saying, the 1st surah is the summary of the whole quran. i verified it and it is true! it is the summary message of the whole quran.
the message is simple for its repeatitive patterns. it repeats the same pattern of thought over and over again in different situations/ different histories of prophets. and some verses are just so clear and obvious we just fail to realize "our hearts".
whenever the quran makes a simple claim, people in the past and at present constantly question them. god has provided all the answers to his critics in the quran. the muslims and those who study the quran find it quite interesting because the quran claims itself to be perfect, clear, and fully detailed. people are confused with the details bro/sis and nothing else. the details are just simple answers we fail to recognize.
peace, rifat
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Good post almarh0m
Thanks
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Also mate
1736 means NOT TO ARGUE WHEN YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE, La Taqif, NOT La Taqqif
only one Qaf NOT 2 Qafs (One with a shadda)
R K and some traditionalists managed to brain wash many with the false understanding to that verse
I can elorate if you wish
Salam
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peace
how are people making 1736 an idol?
If the quran is easy to understand, why not verify what it says? and why not verify everything? That's the only way to be sure.
Use what God has given you. Namely your sight, hearing, mind, etc.Peace
According to 37, humans can't verify all the verses of the Quran, i.e. the Mutashabihat verses can't be verified
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peace
how are people making 1736 an idol?
If the quran is easy to understand, why not verify what it says? and why not verify everything? That's the only way to be sure.
Use what God has given you. Namely your sight, hearing, mind, etc.Peace
According to 37, humans can't verify all the verses of the Quran, i.e. the Mutashabihat verses can't be verified
Depends on how you translate it. It is equally possible to translate it as meaning that "those who are knowledgable" can grasp the mutashabihat.
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Depends on how you translate it. It is equally possible to translate it as meaning that "those who are knowledgable" can grasp the mutashabihat.
Not really, because the common sense in the verse can't support that idea, It is simply "what the knowledable people said in the verse", now read it and tell me why they said so if they managed to crack the meaning of the Mutashabihat verses?
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Depends on how you translate it. It is equally possible to translate it as meaning that "those who are knowledgable" can grasp the mutashabihat.
Not really, because the common sense in the verse can't support that idea, It is simply "what the knowledable people said in the verse", now read it and tell me why they said so if they managed to crack the meaning of the Mutashabihat verses?
Peace brother.
Guess common sense isn't the same to everyone cause I think it makes common sense to translate it as saying that God and those who are knowledgable are the only ones who can grasp the mutashabihat.
To be sure, this isn't entirely a minority viewpoint. See translations by FM, Yuksel, Maulana Ali.
To my sense of reason, it would make more sense that God wouldn't put verses in a book for mankind that are not graspable by any human.
Tell me what you think of this article Ahmed http//19.org/index.php?id=14,49,0,0,1,0
It talks about other things too but Points 1-5 are about 37. Tell me what you think as I am anxious to get the best understanding.
Peace.
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almarh0m wrote
It gives me no Joy to write this post , but i feel i must do it. The un-healthy Obsession about Verse 1736 in respect of Verification seems to be getting out of hand. Do we have to Personally Verify everything before we believe it to be true ? There are Numerous things that an Individual Can Never Personally Verify , Even if She/He is given 10 Life Times on this Earth. So why Turn Verse 1736 into a 'New Idol ' ?? If we believe in the Whole Qur?n , Read It in Context , then why are there so many Issues such as Salat still Un-Resolved?those who believe in the quran believe it to be from god and do not accept a part and reject a part...this is the practise of those who disbelieve in it! -)
the quran clearly talks about "...alladhina yuminuna bilgayb..."! as for 1736..the verse talks about not being upholders of that which we have no knowledge of....but that which is in the quran is from knowledge....so whoso does not believe in the message of quran is a disbeliever therein! -)
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Peace be upon you,
Until people can translate words like "quran" and "muhammad" and "islam", they will always be lost.
The God states that we should be those WITHOUT DOUBT. You can only be without doubt when you have KNOWledge. Knowledge means "To Know", which is the same meaning for the word "science". Science allows you to know that you know. Are we not familiar with the phrase "provide your proof"?
Blind faith always has an element of doubt, and that is not the correct path.
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Hi Alarh0m,
1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
R u saying upholding this is wrong?
R u saying people should practice blind faith and blind actions? That people should not use their mind to decide what they ought to do, follow, believe? ???Peace!
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idolfree1 wrote
Until people can translate words like "quran" and "muhammad" and "islam", they will always be lost.u must be having a name in real life....could u share that? -)
idolfree1 wrote
The God states that we should be those WITHOUT DOUBT.could u quote the verse?
idolfree1 wrote
You can only be without doubt when you have KNOWledge. Knowledge means "To Know", which is the same meaning for the word "science". Science allows you to know that you know.that the quran is from god...is that something u deny/affirm? i am expecting a 'scientific' answer according to ur usage of the word! -)
also are u saying that whenever the word 'ilm' it means knowlege via physics/chemistry/etc ?
idolfree1 wrote
Are we not familiar with the phrase "provide your proof"?could u quote the verse? -)
idolfree1 wrote
Blind faith always has an element of doubt, and that is not the correct path.those who believe the quran to be from god take the quran for guidance in matters of god....and the quran is knowledge and not blind!
as for those who disbelieved in it, in order to retain the practices which they were indulging in, demanded proof of it being a word of god! but what does the god tell them? i think v have read that as well! -)
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Peace be upon you "thegod",
2147 should be sufficient regarding doubt
(2147) "The truth is from your Lord, so do not be one of those who doubt"
2111 should be sufficient that the truthful require proof
(2111) Say "Give me your proof/evidence if you were truthful."
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Peace all,
About the same subject
http//www.free-minds.org80/forum/index.php?topic=2653.0For me the creator is not equal to his creation in the same way than the computer and the creator of the computer.
Let us be humble about our knowledge of the God's way (1785).
Peace
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idolfree1 wrote
2147 should be sufficient regarding doubt(2147) "The truth is from your Lord, so do not be one of those who doubt"
but that is not a 'scientific' proof...it is simply quoting the book itself! how do v scientifically determine the book is not lying regards that verse? -)
idolfree1 wrote
2111 should be sufficient that the truthful require proof(2111) Say "Give me your proof/evidence if you were truthful."
the verse 2111
2111 And they said "Will never enter the Paradise except who was Jewish or Christian ." Those are their wishes/desires. Say "Give me your proof/evidence if you were truthful."
peace be upon u -)
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marie wrote
For me the creator is not equal to his creation in the same way than the computer and the creator of the computer.Let us be humble about our knowledge of the God's way (1785).
agree...though perhaps v agree god is infinitely superior to any creation..(infinitely more than the creator of the computer is to the computer)! -)
peace -)
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Peace be upon you "thegod",
idolfree1 wrote
2147 should be sufficient regarding doubt(2147) "The truth is from your Lord, so do not be one of those who doubt"
but that is not a 'scientific' proof...it is simply quoting the book itself! how do v scientifically determine the book is not lying regards that verse? -)
I determine the truth of all verses in ANY book by verification in everyday life. I was merely showing above that the book we are studying verifies the proceedure.
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idolfree1 wrote
2111 should be sufficient that the truthful require proof(2111) Say "Give me your proof/evidence if you were truthful."
the verse 2111
2111 And they said "Will never enter the Paradise except who was Jewish or Christian ." Those are their wishes/desires. Say "Give me your proof/evidence if you were truthful."
Yes, proof is required over blind belief. Whats the difference between that and some guy named "Muhammad" saying all that is in "Koran"? Should we blindly swallow one, and require proof for the other? How do you reason?