Verse 17:36 The New Idol???
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The problem is that they go to the root to get the meaning of every word.
Aleem - Knowledgeable
alAAalameena - Worlds / Universe
Now if you replace the word knowledgables with worlds in 12 that will change the meaning of the this simple verse and the message becomes illogical. God of the knowledgeables.
Peace,
Can you give a proof from 'al-quran' for the part in bold in your post?
And also a usage or an example of the singular form of alAAalameena from 'al-quran' refering to 'world' as you suggest.
PS Telling that the majority says so is not considered as a proof.
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someone wrote
Can you give a proof from 'al-quran' for the part in bold in your post?And also a usage or an example of the singular form of alAAalameena from 'al-quran' refering to 'world' as you suggest.
PS Telling that the majority says so is not considered as a proof.
u said 'aalameen' = knowledgeables....i have asked u for an example from the quran who u think is from the 'aalameen'?....can u point out from the quran some examples from amongst these 'knowlegeables'? perhaps u missed the post...if u didnt miss it..cool! -)
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someone wrote
Can you give a proof from 'al-quran' for the part in bold in your post?And also a usage or an example of the singular form of alAAalameena from 'al-quran' refering to 'world' as you suggest.
PS Telling that the majority says so is not considered as a proof.
u said 'aalameen' = knowledgeables....i have asked u for an example from the quran who u think is from the 'aalameen'?....can u point out from the quran some examples from amongst these 'knowlegeables'? perhaps u missed the post...if u didnt miss it..cool! -)
Peace,
You can look at 2151 and 2181 among others, for an example.
And the god is knowledgeable, wise. (I'm not refering to you here, just in case you misunderstand...)
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simple wrote
You can look at 2151 and 2181 among others, for an example.it is not aalameen in those 2 verses...it is aalimeen!
and who are these 'we' who are aalimeen...abraham or solomon are not called aalimeen there...the 'we' are aalimeen! -)
still looking for an example from the quran as to who are from the "aalameen"...and ur understandin of "knowledgeables" regardin them! -)
And the god is knowledgeable, wise. (I'm not refering to you here, just in case you misunderstand...)
"thegod" and "the god"..notice that there is no space in my username..make sure u do miss the space when u do refer to me! -)
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Peace all,
I think alAAalameen in 12 is not an adjective, if this is the case we have to read in 342 the women (plural feminine) of alAAalimat (plural feminine) instead the women of alAAlameen (plural masculine masculine)
- And the Angels said O Mary, God has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of alAAalameen worlds.
Ed to add 12
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marie wrote
I think alAAalameen is not an adjective, if this is the case we have to read in 342 the women (plural feminine) of alAAalimat (plural feminine) instead the women of alAAlameen (plural masculine masculine)- And the Angels said O Mary, God has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of alAAalameen worlds.
cool! -)
peace! -)
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Peace be upon you Marie,
I think alAAalameen is not an adjective, if this is the case we have to read in 342 the women (plural feminine) of alAAalimat (plural feminine) instead the women of alAAlameen (plural masculine masculine)
- And the Angels said ?O Mary, God has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of alAAalameen worlds.?
Are you stating both "nisa" and "aalamen" are masculine? I don't see why "knowledgeables" or "learners" does not fit, but I am a bit confused as to how nisa is masculine. I think I have misunderstood, please elabortae.
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Salam brother Kyle,
Peace be upon you Marie,
I think alAAalameen is not an adjective, if this is the case we have to read in 342 the women (plural feminine) of alAAalimat (plural feminine) instead the women of alAAlameen (plural masculine masculine)
- And the Angels said O Mary, God has selected you and cleansed you, and He has selected you over the women of alAAalameen worlds.
Are you stating both "nisa" and "aalamen" are masculine? I don't see why "knowledgeables" or "learners" does not fit, but I am a bit confused as to how nisa is masculine. I think I have misunderstood, please elabortae.
"nisa" is feminine and aalimeen is the plural masculine of AAalim. It couldn't be aalimeen in 342 because of "nisa". The adjective should be in agreement with the subject.
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idolfree1 wrote
I don't see why "knowledgeables" or "learners" does not fit,could u give an example of "knowledgeables" from the quran?.....who has been referred to as "aalameen"?
also, do u say god is also of the "aalameen" referred to in 11/12 and 21107?
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marie wrote
"nisa" is feminine and aalimeen is the plural masculine of AAalim. It couldn't be aalimeen in 342 because of "nisa". The adjective should be in agreement with the subject.aalimeen is not the same as aalameen! -)
they still have to demonstrate from the quran what they understand by "aalameen" = knowledgeables....there still has not been a single instance for the claim of aalameen = "knowledgeables"! -)
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marie wrote
"nisa" is feminine and aalimeen is the plural masculine of AAalim. It couldn't be aalimeen in 342 because of "nisa". The adjective should be in agreement with the subject.aalimeen is not the same as aalameen! -)
they still have to demonstrate from the quran what they understand by "aalameen" = knowledgeables....there still has not been a single instance for the claim of aalameen = "knowledgeables"! -)
aalameen and aalimeen are written in the same way but they do not have the same tashkeel (diacritical...).
THis is why some people here think that this word shoud be read as AAalimeen in 12. i.e. knowledgeables
According 342, we have to read aalameen and not AAalimeen in 12. Both in 342 and 12 AAalam()een is not an adjective.
He is the Lord of everything
6164.Say Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything? And every soul earns what is for it, and none will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in.
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marie wrote
aalameen and aalimeen are written in the same way but they do not have the same tashkeel (diacritical...).THis is why some people here think that this word shoud be read as AAalimeen in 12.
but they do not have proof..like always...just because they want to make it read a certain way they claim distortion...cool! -)
if everybody was to start adding and subtracting diacriticals to distort the quran to their liking...perhaps the quran states that they will not settle for anything less than a quran of their own liking! no wonder...so many times they make assertions and fail to back it up...what will the disbeliever not do to disbelieve by the quran! -S
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Someone I am not Arabic speaking person. TG seems to be well-versed in Abrabic and I agree what he said in his previous posts. If you replace worlds / universe with knowledgeables than it simply change the meaning of God. If He is only God of knowledgables. I don't consider myself knowledgeable so He is not my God. If He is not my God than I don't have to follow His commands. I don't have to believe in His message. I don't have to believe in His messangers.
All the transations had this word corectly translated as worlds or universe which is correct. He is the Lord Creator of everthing and all the worlds.
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marie wrote
According 342, we have to read aalameen and not AAalimeen in 12. Both in 342 and 12 AAalam()een is not an adjective.He is the Lord of everything
6164.Say Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything? And every soul earns what is for it, and none will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you of what you disputed in.
7154 Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!
2623 Pharaoh said And what is the Lord of the Worlds?
2624 He said The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, if you would be sure.
2625 (Pharaoh) said unto those around him Hear ye not?
2626 He said Your Lord and the Lord of your fathers.
2627 Pharaoh) said Lo! your messenger who hath been sent unto you is indeed a madman!
2628 He said Lord of the East and the West and all that is between them, if ye did but understand.
if they would but understand..but can the blind see! -)
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Peace be upon you,
Knowledge is everywhere when one becomes awake. Universal Law encompasses everything. But most of mankind are blind and deaf.
2623 Pharaoh said And what is the Lord of the Knowledge?
2624 He said The Lord of the skies and the earth and what is between them, if you were sure/certain.
To be sure/certain is to have KNOWLEDGE. To believe is to not have Knowledge, just to "think so".
2625 (Pharaoh) said unto those around him Hear ye not?
2626 He said Your Lord and the Lord of your fathers.
Notice "fathers" and not "mothers", this will tie in to what Marie recognized in regards to masculine.
2627 Pharaoh) said Lo! your messenger who hath been sent unto you is indeed a madman!
2628 He said Lord of the East and the West and all that is between them, if ye did but understand/reason/comprehend.
One must STUDY in order to go from belief to KNOWLEDGE, and the God is Lord of those who achieve knowledgeabout a particular subject within the universe.
Please take no that the verses use LORD of the knowers/knowledgeable, not God of the knowers/knowledgeable.
The attribute or rabb is one that teaches! However...
(931) They took their religious scholars and their monks as lords from other than The God...
Teaching involves detaile explanation to help one to KNOW.
I hope the connection is being clarified.
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That doesn't make sense to translate "rabb alAAalameena" as "the lord of the knowledge" in 2623 nor "nisa-i alAAalameena" as the women of the knowledge in 342
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Pharaoh said And what is the Lord of alAAalameena?
Qala firAAawnu wama rabbu alAAalameena -
But those of them who are firm in the knowledge, as well as the believers, they believe in what was sent down to you and what was sent down before you; and those who hold the contact-method, and those who contribute towards betterment, and those who believe in God and the Last Day; to these We will give them their reward greatly.
Lakini alrrasikhoona fee alAAilmi minhum waalmu/minoona yu/minoona bimaonzila ilayka wama onzila min qablika waalmuqeemeenaalssalata waalmu/toona alzzakatawaalmu/minoona biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiriola-ika sanu/teehim ajran AAatheeman
- And as such, We have sent it down a law in Arabic. And if you follow their desires after what has come to you of the knowledge, then you will not have any ally or defender against God.
Wakathalika anzalnahu hukmanAAarabiyyan wala-ini ittabaAAta ahwaahum baAAda majaaka mina alAAilmi ma laka mina Allahi minwaliyyin wala waqin
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Peace marie, all
In 342, alAAalameena is not an adjective of nisa'e, it is "mouthaf ilayh", and it is a plural regrouping males and females, thus it is used in the masculine form. It has not to be feminine although nisa'e is feminine.
PS Nice to see you back, and the baby too sun
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Peace be upon you Marie,
I guess what I am saying is I am not sure what teh exact word should be, but the implication is knowledge. The verses you just gave a to this understanding, however, I am not sure what word should be used.