1st time reader
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Peace Kaj,
And welcome to the forum. Being from a christian background means that it will be easier for you to have an open mind when reading the Quran. Please, get your own understanding of the quran and even on the contact method and share it with us. Most of us here are from a traditionalist background and we come with a big dose of bias.
Regards
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Wakas, I apologize for the length of time that has passed between my original question and this post. Life happens outside the internet, ) , and I have been too busy with serious family matters to be here.
In my own words, I believe what you are all saying is that the contact-method simply means to stay in contact with God. To not forget Him nor ignore His existence. And to show that you remember Him and have a sober awareness of Who He is by praying, studying and doing good works.
The Bible says the same thing in many places and in many ways. The book of 2 Timothy puts it this way...that we are to retain the standard of the sound words which we have heard, to guard the treasure which has been entrusted to us and to commit it to faithful men who will be able to teach it also. To be diligent to present ourselves to God as workmen who don't need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.
What kind of set order?
Does anyone know the order in which the surahs were originally given?
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Peace,
There are several records about the order of revelation. But these are probably concocted. ANd for us they don't matter, as we have to use the whole Quran, and not read them in a specific order, so it doesn't matter if you start at chapter 2 or 67, if you want to understand the Quran on a certain subject, you have to compare other verses on those subjects to get the picture.
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Peace Kaj
I would agree with all that you mentioned in the bible as being equal to that of quranic 'salat'.
As for the order, many attest that it was sent down in a different order than that which is in the present text. the first commandment onto Mohamed was actually 'iqra' = Read (investigate/explore/gain knowledge) is what many claim to be the first.
Read in the name of your Lord Who created.
There is no chronological order in the quran as in a story-line of begining, middle, end. In my opinion, it is written around lessons and moral examples. So for example, when God wants to relay to us the consequences of arrogance and oppression it is there where He mention's the story of Moses in Egypt. It also follows a meditative rhythm where you read certain phrases in between other bits of information over and over again, in my opinion again.
Peace all
P.S. The question of order some have only relates to the chapter orders and not the verse order in each chapter. -
n my own words, I believe what you are all saying is that the contact-method simply means to stay in contact with God. To not forget Him nor ignore His existence. And to show that you remember Him and have a sober awareness of Who He is by praying, studying and doing good works.
peace kaj,
I think meditation is a good way to "connect" with God. God is inside us, we need to look inside ourselves to reach the state of mind we call Islam (peace). -
By set order, I mean the order they are currently found.
If you do a search on the internet, you will find the traditional account of the order of revelation, e.g
http//www.missionislam.com/quran/revealationorder.htmOne could probably get a good jist of the revelation order by studying the content of the chapters, but I dont have a reference to such a work. Its probably been done though.
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2265 And the example of those who spend their money seeking God's grace, and to save their souls, is like the example of a garden on a high ground which is subjected to a heavy rain, and because of that it produces double its crop! And if no heavy rain comes, then light rain is enough. And God is Seer over all you do.
What is "God's grace"?
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Peace Kaj
The phrase in Arabic you're referring to is "ebteghaa mardaat Allah". I would say the translation of that phrase is closest in English to "seeking to please God" as Yusuf Ali's translation states or my loose translation of "seeking to gain acceptance from God".
I wouldn't say it's "grace" because grace in Arabic is "rahma" (please refer to the opening line of the first chapter - In the name of God the Most Gracious the Most Merciful .. which on a side note is the line we say before starting to read the book in any chapter).
So I would infer from that verse that our intentions when doing good is important. The act of doing a good deed to someone other than ourselves strengthens our connection to God and also strengthens our souls, as the verse states - but the trick is to do it for the right reasons. If we're doing something for someone in order to please God AND to "better our souls" (as opposed to just doing it for bragging rights, score points with others who we want to impress, etc) then God will shower our works with His Blessings, so that even a little goes a long way.
I hope that helped.
Peace all
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to research the meaning of "rahman", this article is decent
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/rahman.htm"My father, I fear that a retribution will inflict you from Al-Rahman and that you will become an ally to the devil"
You sure it means "gracious"?
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Peace Wakas,
Thanks for posting the article. I have some issues with it though. The author is coming with the assumption that the God cannot possibly be Almighty, Most Powerful and yet still be the Most Gracious and Most Merciful. As stated in the article several times in different ways, here's one of them
Do these ayat describe a benevolent benefactor (as in "beneficent" or a generous host (as in "gracious", ?graciously? accommodating His ?guests? or the recipients of His largesse, or a kind-hearted ruler forgiving His subjects, or do they describe NONE but THE ALMIGHTY???
Perhaps it is difficult for the human mind to fathom all the attributes of God altogether, but that doesn't mean it can't exist. It is simply our own limitations.
As for the author's notion that although the dictionary supplies the meaning of gracious for the root word Ra Ha Ma (and yes there is a root word for it), the word doesn't fit the nature of God and therefore the definition doesn't apply to the word - I couldn't disagree more. Not only is this a clear misunderstanding of the magnificence of God, with all His attributes that make a believer cry, but also a distortion of Arabic which would go against any logic. If certain words don't equal their definitions then we really couldn't read anything properly, could we.
But I do appreciate the article, it made me stop and check myself, which is always a good thing.
Peace all
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peace
although the dictionary supplies the meaning of gracious for the root word Ra Ha Ma (and yes there is a root word for it), the word doesn't fit the nature of God and therefore the definition doesn't apply to the word
...wow.... so are we being selective in choosing WHEN to use the root method? (sounds like biased)
i certainly find God to be the Most Gracious. That's definitely one of His attributes(from my own experience). What people forget when they say things like 'well how can God be the most gracious and almighty at the same time?!'
Because God is the Most fair as well.
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Peace Imran K.,
i certainly find God to be the Most Gracious. That's definitely one of His attributes(from my own experience). What people forget when they say things like 'well how can God be the most gracious and almighty at the same time?!'
Because God is the Most fair as well.
Excellent point, bro! There is no doubt in my mind as well that God in fact showers all of us with Grace and Mercy. Praise be to God.
God Bless you all
Peace -
peace
thanks, That's right....All praises are due to God !
I mean look at the world, what stops God from just annihlating almost every living soul? Because God is the truth; he lives up to his word . That's God's mercy.
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peace,
to use a lexicon/dictionary properly, one must be semi-intelligent. anyone can take one meaning from such a book and slot it into wherever they want, but that doesn't make it correct. see the intro to PRL for further clarification
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/Qwrmic.htmunfortunately, most do not follow the method discussed in the above link.
just because God can be thought of as "gracious" does not disprove the article referenced. this is an irrelevant point. the fact is, the context that "rahman" is used in favours "almighty", furthermore, there is evidence from rock inscriptions, shown by bro Ayman that discuss "rahman" as "almighty". u can do a search in the forum.
one thing is indisputable though, "rahim" does not mean "most merciful", it doesn't mean "most" anything, as it is not the superlative thats used in 'al quran'.
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2265 And the example of those who spend their money seeking God's grace, and to save their souls
Explain please. Does this say that man must buy some kind of salvation from God?
soul2squeeze - "So I would infer from that verse that our intentions when doing good is important. The act of doing a good deed to someone other than ourselves strengthens our connection to God and also strengthens our souls, as the verse states - but the trick is to do it for the right reasons. If we're doing something for someone in order to please God AND to "better our souls" (as opposed to just doing it for bragging rights, score points with others who we want to impress, etc) then God will shower our works with His Blessings, so that even a little goes a long way. '
I understand the concept you give here and the watered garden picture. However, "in order to please God" and "seeking God's grace" mean two different things in English. Grace in English means an unearned - and usually undeserved - favor of some kind, any kind from someone who has what you need. It is something you cannot "buy" in any way.
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Peace Kaj
As I stated earlier, I don't think grace would be the right meaning for the phrase you're refering to in arabic. I agree with your definition of grace in english. The root word for grace in arabic is rahama. The root word used in the verse you're mentioning is reda. Reda means to accept/approve/to please. So I would go with the other translations I provided from other translators. The translator you're using in that one instance didn't really hit the target.
Peace all
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PEACE Wakas
to use a lexicon/dictionary properly, one must be semi-intelligent.
No need for insults, bro. You may have your own opinion and that's fine.
Here are all the meanings for the root word RaHaMa mercy/pity/compassion/sympathy/kindness/pardon/forgive/benefit/become tender-hearted/incline/favor
anyone can take one meaning from such a book and slot it into wherever they want, but that doesn't make it correct.
I'm sorry, I didn't find the term Almighty for any of the definitions. Anyone can make up entirely new meanings to words and write an article about how none of the REAL meanings makes any sense to him and pass it off as something correct, when in fact it makes absolutely no sense. You simply can't make things up as you go along just because you don't like any of the real definitions.
just because God can be thought of as "gracious" does not disprove the article referenced. this is an irrelevant point.
I beg to differ. All of the verses mentioned in his article made total sense with the real meaning of the root word rahama in place. He chose to pick a new word because he couldn't understand the depth of using the term gracious to describe God in those instances - that's his problem.
one thing is indisputable though, "rahim" does not mean "most merciful", it doesn't mean "most" anything, as it is not the superlative thats used in 'al quran'.
I agree with you 'rahim' does not mean most anything, but the term used to describe God is AL-Rahim. This makes the word a definite article meaning the THE Merciful One. Can anyone exceed God in His Mercy towards His creation? You don't have to answer that. He is ARHAM AL-RAHEMEEN (The Most Merciful) (7151)
Peace all
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peace s2s,
I was not addressing you with what you regarded as an "insult". I was speaking generally, hence "one" and after "unfortunately, most do not follow the method discussed in the above link.", if I was referring to you I would have said "you" and "you didn't follow this method" or something similar. I guess I could have been more clearer.
If you think "gracious" fits for 1945, thats up to you. Each to his own.
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Peace Wakas
I was not addressing you with what you regarded as an "insult". I was speaking generally, hence "one" and after "unfortunately, most do not follow the method discussed in the above link.", if I was referring to you I would have said "you" and "you didn't follow this method" or something similar. I guess I could have been more clearer.
that's ok, bro no harm done ... you're right you didn't address me personally - maybe i was too sensitive that day sorry ! D
If you think "gracious" fits for 1945, thats up to you. Each to his own.
ok we can agree to disagree that's fine ... i still appreciate the article even though i disagreed with it so sanks
Peace all
