1st time reader
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2265 And the example of those who spend their money seeking God's grace, and to save their souls
Explain please. Does this say that man must buy some kind of salvation from God?
soul2squeeze - "So I would infer from that verse that our intentions when doing good is important. The act of doing a good deed to someone other than ourselves strengthens our connection to God and also strengthens our souls, as the verse states - but the trick is to do it for the right reasons. If we're doing something for someone in order to please God AND to "better our souls" (as opposed to just doing it for bragging rights, score points with others who we want to impress, etc) then God will shower our works with His Blessings, so that even a little goes a long way. '
I understand the concept you give here and the watered garden picture. However, "in order to please God" and "seeking God's grace" mean two different things in English. Grace in English means an unearned - and usually undeserved - favor of some kind, any kind from someone who has what you need. It is something you cannot "buy" in any way.
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Peace Kaj
As I stated earlier, I don't think grace would be the right meaning for the phrase you're refering to in arabic. I agree with your definition of grace in english. The root word for grace in arabic is rahama. The root word used in the verse you're mentioning is reda. Reda means to accept/approve/to please. So I would go with the other translations I provided from other translators. The translator you're using in that one instance didn't really hit the target.
Peace all
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PEACE Wakas
to use a lexicon/dictionary properly, one must be semi-intelligent.
No need for insults, bro. You may have your own opinion and that's fine.
Here are all the meanings for the root word RaHaMa mercy/pity/compassion/sympathy/kindness/pardon/forgive/benefit/become tender-hearted/incline/favor
anyone can take one meaning from such a book and slot it into wherever they want, but that doesn't make it correct.
I'm sorry, I didn't find the term Almighty for any of the definitions. Anyone can make up entirely new meanings to words and write an article about how none of the REAL meanings makes any sense to him and pass it off as something correct, when in fact it makes absolutely no sense. You simply can't make things up as you go along just because you don't like any of the real definitions.
just because God can be thought of as "gracious" does not disprove the article referenced. this is an irrelevant point.
I beg to differ. All of the verses mentioned in his article made total sense with the real meaning of the root word rahama in place. He chose to pick a new word because he couldn't understand the depth of using the term gracious to describe God in those instances - that's his problem.
one thing is indisputable though, "rahim" does not mean "most merciful", it doesn't mean "most" anything, as it is not the superlative thats used in 'al quran'.
I agree with you 'rahim' does not mean most anything, but the term used to describe God is AL-Rahim. This makes the word a definite article meaning the THE Merciful One. Can anyone exceed God in His Mercy towards His creation? You don't have to answer that. He is ARHAM AL-RAHEMEEN (The Most Merciful) (7151)
Peace all
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peace s2s,
I was not addressing you with what you regarded as an "insult". I was speaking generally, hence "one" and after "unfortunately, most do not follow the method discussed in the above link.", if I was referring to you I would have said "you" and "you didn't follow this method" or something similar. I guess I could have been more clearer.
If you think "gracious" fits for 1945, thats up to you. Each to his own.
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Peace Wakas
I was not addressing you with what you regarded as an "insult". I was speaking generally, hence "one" and after "unfortunately, most do not follow the method discussed in the above link.", if I was referring to you I would have said "you" and "you didn't follow this method" or something similar. I guess I could have been more clearer.
that's ok, bro no harm done ... you're right you didn't address me personally - maybe i was too sensitive that day sorry ! D
If you think "gracious" fits for 1945, thats up to you. Each to his own.
ok we can agree to disagree that's fine ... i still appreciate the article even though i disagreed with it so sanks
Peace all
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2265 And the example of those who spend their money seeking God's grace, and to save their souls
Explain please. Does this say that man must buy some kind of salvation from God?
I believe this is talking about giving to the needy, the poor... as in charity. Not to priests or something like that. Infact if you read the verse before it, you will note that it is talking about charity.
2264 O you who believe, do not nullify your charities with insult and harm; like the one who spends his money in vanity to show the people, and he does not believe in God and the Last Day. His example is like a stone on which there is dust, then it is subjected to heavy rain which leaves it bare.
Kind of the opposite of the other example in 265.This verse here in the same chapter might clarify things a bit further...
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Scripture, and the prophets, and he gives money out of love to the near relatives, and the orphans, and the needy and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves, and he holds the contact-method, and he contributes towards betterment; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of good and bad and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and they are the righteous.I hope it's clearer now, kaj?
Peace
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peace
ok we can agree to disagree that's fine
Bravo ! bravo I am so glad to see that. I wish more people would grasp that kind of attitude.
EDIT I'd have 'applauded' you both but i have to wait 720 hrs
peace
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Peace Imran
You're so nice I also get a smile on my face when I see people on this forum treat each other kindly ... some of the threads are like voodoo and then brickwall no wait that's not enough then they gotta elektro
Yea Bro Wakas is a kind Muslim, indeed applause applause
Peace Zenje
Really good analysis, I agree with that too.Peace Kaj,
So what are your thoughts on the quran in general, if it's not too personal to ask?
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Zenje ? ?I believe this is talking about giving to the needy, the poor... as in charity. Not to priests or something like that. Infact if you read the verse before it, you will note that it is talking about charity.?
I agree. It is not talking about giving money to religious leaders of any kind but to those in need. I believe I understand what a lifestyle of righteousness is and I believe my life or anyone else's shows whether or not we live what we say we believe.
That's not what I am not understanding here. This verse seems to be saying, that if you do not nullify your charity by seeking personal aggrandizement and such, you will indeed receive "grace" and save your soul. As I said, it just doesn't make sense in English. Grace is not earned, it is not a payment for something, it is....well, grace.
Soul2squeeze ? ?So what are your thoughts on the quran in general, if it's not too personal to ask??
No, I don't think it's too personal to ask what my thoughts are on the quran in general. But it is too soon. I am not very far into it. And to be honest with you, I don't know if I will feel comfortable giving an answer for fear that I may offend someone and get myself into an unsafe situation. Because I've seen too many voodoo elektro online and because of the things I see on the nightly news.
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Peace Kaj
Well I definitely don't want to intrude on your comfort zone, so whatever suits you is fine . I would like to add though, that the free-minds forum is a pretty free-spirited place to be. There are some who question the divinity of God, others who question the author of the quran, others from other faiths altogether who believe Islam is not the right way to God. My point is, nobody will physically or verbally harm you if you disagree with anything - even if your belief or opinion is drastically different from someone else's on this forum. As for what you see on t.v., it is quite sad that some groups have distorted God's Message so much that they believe what they are doing is o.k. Actually this whole subject of what we see on the news is really complicated as you know so I'll just leave it at that. But again, whatever you feel comfortable with is cool
Peace all
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Why do people believe that what Muhammed said is true? What is it that convinces that he is a true prophet?
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Peace Kaj
My answer to that would be the miracle of the quran. The quran has many scientific facts not known to civilization at the time. One very basic one is that the earth is a sphere and not flat. There are plenty of others. We could write it off as a lucky guess if it was a few but the evidence in the quran is just too much to attribute it to a lucky person.
Also, according to history, he was a very trust-worthy individual who was well liked by his community, prior to his prophethood, so people close to him found it easy to accept him as telling the truth. Some Christians and Jews at the time converted because his message confirmed what came before it and he fulfilled the prophecy found in their readings. Some pagans converted because of the beauty of the revolutionary message at the time. It promoted a system that was just overall more effective and peaceful than what they were doing.
However, the VAST majority of the people of his time did not believe in him and in fact persecuted him and his followers terribly. His life was filled with strife and abuse because of this message he was giving. He looked death in the eyes many times by the hands of those who wanted to supress what he was trying to say. Unfortunately, like the messengers before him, he was a very unpopular man of his time.
I bet others have alot deeper analysis so stay tuned for more posts D
Peace All
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Does Allah lie? What does he say about lying and liars? Where would I find the exact surahs? Is there some kind of online surah subject guide?
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Peace,
Dear Kaj, for some good information, i can also recommend you
http//www.mostmerciful.com/#_ftn34
http//home.swipnet.se/islam/quran-bible.htm
http//www.mucizeler.com/
These can give you some good information.
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peace kaj
to sum it up though in the quran EVERYTHING to God is about false-hood and the truth. Just one example. God is the truth, and all the idols people worship are falsehood. We are also told to tell the truth even if its against our own relatives....
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Peace Kaj
A great search engine I use for looking up words and phrases and whatnot in the quran is found on
At the top click on "Quran" tab.
On the left hand side you will find a list of translations, click English Translation
In the new page scroll down that same left hand column all the way to the bottom. There you will find Quran Search, which is great when you're looking for a word or phrase.
Quran Browser gives you the option of reading many people's interpretations of the same verse. Just shoot in the Chapter and Verse #s and check off all the translators' works you'd like to see. I think they have Khalifa, Yousef Ali, a few others as well.
I think Bro Imran said what what my opinion would be on the issue of truth/falsehood. Concise and right on point! So Ditto D
Peace All
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Please tell me, in a paragraph or two, what the message of the quran is.
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Give him a clue zenje.
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If you look at the title of this thread and read my previous posts you will find that reading it for myself is exactly what I have been doing. Still, I want to know what the main message is. To those who care to respond ...Thank you for your time and thoughtfulness in answering my questions.
