"Serving God"
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Salaams sugar,
If verbal praise was all Allah wanted , it is too easy - just record it on a recorder and that will carry on praising Him even when we are dead.
The quran is grossly mistranslated , when Allah is saying persue ,imbibe his qualities /attributes they have translated it as praise his name and things.
Ism ,smaa,samawaat aren?t names and things but the qualities of the Allmighty.
Rather then people of Godly attributes we have become idolators idolisings His name and rituals.We lie , cheat do fraud and think we are the saved???
56
Is nothing more then to cleanse one?s self ,
God Bless.
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Sugar
Do what seems correct to you according to Qur'an instead of reading and following someone like Aidid Safar. I said this many times before on the forum knowing that majority of the members do not believe in Qur'an salat as prayers. I do pray not very regularly but pray very traditional way. I don't see any harm or shirk in physically bowing down and prostrate to Allah.
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Sugargive us more examples then.
Zakaat which he translates as 'purification'. Zakaat is 'growth, evolution' while tahara is purification.
Salaat which he translates as 'commitment'. Salaat is an exercise one performs twice a day in order to establish zikrullah.
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SimpleOk, well the cleaning act in 5/6 fits this description and God does tell us to say certain things like 17/110.
sorry i totally disagree they are your misunderstandings and not rituals at all.
You want to debate on them creat another topic - i am waiting.
Your definition of ritual was a set of fixed actions and sometimes words performed regularly. - as i see it
How are these not rituals?
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Salaams mquran,
Okay the first one first
Going to a lecture/dance hall/a meeting - any place where you will meet others if you have been gardening should you wash your muddy feet, wash your hands make sure your nose is clean?
This was just an example.
If you call this a ritual fine but I don?t
if you don't have problems with this then we can go on the next ayah.
God Bless.
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Simple, my view is thus. To say 'al-quraan doesnt have rituals' or vice-versa can only be verified in one way by defining 'ritual'.
To me a ritual is simply a set of action one performs routinely. Hence when before I iqamussalaat, I wash and rub myself as al-quraan commands.
If you don't consider the above a 'ritual', then that's fine. That's a matter of semantics. However, I'd like to know if it affects your understanding of 5/6 in any way. THAT'S the point I'm looking at.
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Zakaat which he translates as 'purification'. Zakaat is 'growth, evolution' while tahara is purification.
I've heard that it could mean 'purification' before by a Muhammaden on another forum.
Salaat which he translates as 'commitment'. Salaat is an exercise one performs twice a day in order to establish zikrullah.
I've heard many other meanings of the word 'salaat'
Someone PMed me Aidid's site a while back. So far everything I read on his site makes sense.
If verbal praise was all Allah wanted , it is too easy - just record it on a recorder and that will carry on praising Him even when we are dead.
I agree.
peace,
sugar -
Salaams mquran,
i am afraid there arn't any rituals in the quran,check this out
What is washed off of the flesh and the blood of the inmates of fire.
Wala taAAamun illamin ghisleenin
"Nor hath he any food except the corruption from their washing,
Waothkur AAabdanaayyooba ith nada rabbahu annee massaniya alshshaytanubinusbin waAAathabin
Commemorate Our Servant Job. Behold he cried to his Lord "The Evil One has afflicted me with distress and suffering!"
42.
Orkud birijlika hathamughtasalun baridun washarabun(The command was given "Urge people here is wherein to wash, cool and refresh."
43.
Wawahabna lahu ahlahu wamithlahummaAAahum rahmatan minna wathikrali-olee al-albabiAnd We gave him (back) his people, and doubled their number,- as a Grace from Ourselves, and a thing for commemoration, for all who have Understanding.
Please note -I have corrected the ayah 3842 above.
56 ? using The quran,lanes and the quranic dictionary.
O you who believe when you raise up for the salaat then wash your-selves,actions and your earnings till the thing by which you gain benefit/services you provide holds back from doing evil with a firm setting and your people till they do likewise and when you are under an obligation/in sin then purify yourself and if you are morally sick or trying to find out or has come one of you from the vying/ contending with one another or you not been able to have contact with women and not you find essence then look for the learned, ascended, good
And you wipe your-selves,actions and your earnings from it does not want Allah to lay upon you any hardship but He wants to purify you and to complete His favour upon you so that you may give thanks.- as i see it.
Thanks.
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Simplei am afraid there arn't any rituals in the quran,check this out
Really..
O you who believe when you raise up for the salaat then wash yourselves and your earnings till the thing by which you gain benefit/services you provide holds back from doing evil with a firm setting and your people till they do likewise and when you are under an obligation/in sin then purify yourself and if you are morally sick or on a journey or has come one of you from the vying/ contending with one another or you not been able to have contact with women and not you find essence then look for the learned, ascended, good
And you wipe yourselves and your earnings from it does not want Allah to lay upon you any hardship but He wants to purify you and to complete His favour upon you so that you may give thanks.Some questions, if i may
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Did you translate this yourself? If not, did you check it for yourself?
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You have chosen a metaphorical understanding for the words 'ayd', 'marafiq', 'wujuh' etc. What is your criteria for applying a metaphorical (i.e. a mapping of physical language to non-physical phenomena) and literal ( a mapping to physical language to physical phenomena), if there's a criteria to begin with?
thanks.
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Salaams mquran,
Yes I have checked it Br.
And where does it say these are metaphorical?
As I understand everything is literal in the quran accept where it has been indicated otherwise.
WUJOOH=Face/self/Actions/Deeds/Direction (page 603 QD)
Salaams.
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Yes I have checked it Br.
Ok, lets start with 'ilaa' in 'iza qumtum ILAA as-salaat'. The meaning of 'ilaa' is 'towards', why have you translated it as 'for' ?
And where does it say these are metaphorical?
Nowhere at all. Hence I'm wondering why you're using it as such? Can you provide justification?
As I understand everything is literal in the quran accept where it has been indicated otherwise.
WUJOOH=Face/self/Actions/Deeds/Direction
So why didn't you choose 'face' (as in the face you wash in the morning before work) instead of the 'self,actions,deeds' ?
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You said
?The meaning of 'ilaa' is 'towards'?
Br check a dictionary , it has other meanings ? and you must have come across those.So I don?t know what you are getting at.
?I'm wondering why you're using it as such?
Where?
?So why didn't you choose 'face' (as in the face you wash in the morning before work) instead of the 'self,actions,deeds' ??
I didn?t as that (to me) doesn?t fit the context , and doesn?t hold water.
Salaams.
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SimpleBr check a dictionary , it has other meanings ? and you must have come across those.So I don?t know what you are getting at.
The usage of 'ilaa' in al-quraan is 'towards'. If you could show me other verses, I'd be quite happy to look.
Where?
In 5/6 izaa qumtum ILAA as-asalaat.
I didn?t as that (to me) doesn?t fit the context , and doesn?t hold water.
Why doesn't 'wash your faces' fit the context please?
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Salaams sugar,mquran,
Sorry sugar i can't get the hang of the quote usage as you sugested!
mquran you said
Why doesn't 'wash your faces' fit the context please?
Wujooh is not face in the quran , a perfect example for you.
Wamin haythu kharajta fawalliwajhaka shatra almasjidi alharami wahaythuma kuntum fawalloo wujoohakum shatrahu li-allayakoona lilnnasi AAalaykum hujjatun illaallatheena thalamoo minhum falatakhshawhum waikhshawnee wali-otimma niAAmatee AAalaykumwalaAAallakum tahtadoona
So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided;
002.150
YUSUFALI So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided;You cannot face the masjid al haram always ? can you?hence its not face.
But your 'self,actions,deeds' can be in accordance to certain commands always.
From 38.41-43
The Gusl isn?t a physical washing , but a spiritual cleansing to remove the evilness within ? so the whole ayah is mistranslated to concuct the ritual.FOR ILAA SEE 229,THERE ARE LOADS OF DIFFERENT USES.But then again if a translator has used it thus ? it doesn?t mean he is right /he is God almighty or something, you are only looking at a translation done by a translator.
God Bless. -
SimpleWujooh is not face in the quran , a perfect example for you.
Simple, you're not addressing my point. I will recap it for you
- 5/6 says 'aghsiloo wujuhakum'.
- According to Arabic, wajh can mean 'face' (i.e. a physical face , where you get pimples!)
- 5/6 therefore can say 'wash you face'.
- You claim this doesnt fit context?
- I ask HOW doesnt it fit CONTEXT.
So if you can tell me please, how doesnt 'wash your face' fit the context?
I know that in other occurenced, 'wajh' can mean 'expression' but I'd like to know how a literal interpretation doesnt fit the context above?
thanks.
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Guys...ever thought of both meanings can apply? if you read the arabic, you can read both. Why the fight over which one it is? I'm starting myself to believe more and more, that picking one meaning is not meant to be done, as God has a reason to choose such a versatile language for His revelation. I'm still researching if this is possible, but my mind is seeing this more and more as really true.
I already saw it with 2530, and with a lot of other verses. If we look at 2530 where mahjoor meaning 3 main things; desertion, avoiding and fettering/chaining. By my opinion this approach gives a whole new gateway to the Quran.
So that ONE word gives three meanings, which in english end up like this a bit
The prophet will say "O my Lord, my people have deserted this Reading, have treated it as something to be avoided and have fettered/ chained/fixed understandings (in the Reading)." (2530)
A horse or camel tied head to foot was called mahjoor, and the rope used for tying, al-hijaar(Taj). Making the animal immobile, as it stuck in its position, where the owners will leave it. The Quran today is thus fettered/chained by custom and tradition, fixed titles and meanings of words, hearsay reports compiled centuries later, and laws and by-laws enacted by men, each group having its own fiqah and shariah, which are held more sacrosanct and given predence over the Quran, and making thus the Quran fixed in meaning, where they want, and how they want. Making the versatile meanings immobile, freezing a certain meaning, and chaining the Quran with that meaning.
I'm still researching, but i thought maybe this could be an interresting approach to your discussion.
Peace
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Sorry sugar i can't get the hang of the quote usage as you sugested!
lol there's no need to apologize
I don't know what you mean when you said you "can't get the hand of it"? confused
if you want to 'shorten' a quote just make sure that '
' is still at the end of it and god willing it should come up.peace,
sugar -
Salaams mquran,all,
i cannot use wujooh as the word to show its meaning relative to the quranic language as it accurs in too many places - but believe you me its not face anywhere.
for more of a solid proof lets look to the word wash - it only accurs in four ayah , two are the same and two ayah's are different but one of these last two is mistranslated so we will leave that alone for now i think.
31.
Thumma aljaheema salloohu
"And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire.
32.
Thumma fee silsilatin tharAAuhasabAAoona thiraAAan faoslukoohu
"Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits!
33.
Innahu kana la yu/minu biAllahialAAatheemi
"This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High.
34.
Wala yahuddu AAalataAAami almiskeeni
"And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent!
35.
Falaysa lahu alyawma hahuna hameemun
"So no friend hath he here this Day.
36.
Wala taAAamun illamin ghisleenin
"Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing ,
37.
La ya/kuluhu illa alkhati-oona
"Which none do eat but those in sin."Is this a physical washing Br?believe me all the others are the same its a spiritual thing.
You have repeated "wash your face" but it isn't a physical wash and secondly their isn't a face neither, but now its your turn to show me where this isn't the case and how please, THANKS in advance.
Gods Blessings on you.
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peace
so whats a 'spritual washing' according to you?