Just another forum <---say it isn't so!!
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Peace
I am also very sorry and angry to see that now it became normal to delete and edit posts, which is nothing else than censorship!
It has been stated, 'Damned if you do and damned if you don't'.
There have been suggestions that moderaters remove posts, etc. It is clear in the forum rules however, that the moderators may delete any post which breaks the rules or edit them.
Now you suggest it is a bad thing. You cannot please all of the people all of the time. I'm sure you realize this. We cannot let disruption and chaos run amuck.
So now we have moderated and censored threads - wonderful! whats next?
Yes the threads are moderated as much as possible and that which is contrary to the rules will have to be dealt with as we are the enforcers of those rules.
Things are very much awry and there are so many threads and posts here it is hard to keep up. Next, I think we shall try to clean things up, resotre some order to things and enforce the rules more closely.
Freedom is oft abused and surely you can see that it has been time and again here.
This is not the fm I used to know.
There will always be some complaints. We have to live with that and keep things as orderly and peaceful as possible.
Joe
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Tay
I didn't imagine this thread would turn out this way, but, at the same time, I'm glad it has.I'm not...
so lote tree is leaving arnold is leaving, warda, pm....
i'm not (at least not yet) and i hope you'll be back inchallah - at least tay decided to hang on
i remember when i was very new on this forum, i once intervened in a very interesting thread - on calendar - kindly asking the opponents to discuss peacefully - and was ejected quite unkindly )
but things got better after a while, tempers cooled down, little like a marriage, good times bad times...
for sure, if the bad times are too long and heavy, many of us will ask for a divorce, especially those who like peace to reign around them
so, peace all !
lk -
I'm not directly leaving. I still learn a lot from the discussions. But i like it more to see the responses to be given in feedback form. Now mostly it is in 'you're wrong!' form. But i need to spend more time on my study and other things. The main thing is, i haven't felt real constructive critism, only attacks. i'm mostly 'defending' my views. Instead of discussing them. So i feel my long replies are to closed minds and are really not worth to reply, as they're only waiting to refute it, instead of discussing it. These are no discussions. The only reason really that i responded, is to show to other people, i base my views directly from the Quran and arabic language, that they are not picked out of the air. I've also made my mistakes in discussions, but i'll keep a close watch from now on how and why i post.
Peace
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peace all. Sad that pm and lote-tree and others may be leaving....I enjoyed their posts....
Until non-secular muslims start to genuinely question scripture,and its place in the world,i feel,they will not achieve political legitimacy,or contribute fully to lessening oppression,poverty and injustice around the world...
I feel it instructive that the mods cannot maintain peace on the forum,yet the forum claims to have a universal constitution for all mankind from the quran.... o
Peace all. -
Enquirerpeace all. Sad that pm and lote-tree and others may be leaving....I enjoyed their posts....
Unsurprising since all of you had an agenda of disruption and misinformation.
Until non-secular muslims
There's no such thing as a 'non secular muslim' because a muslim by definition is non-secular. Once you're secular, i.e. you separate religion and politics, you're no longer, quranically speaking, a muslim.
start to genuinely question scripture,and its place in the world,i feel,they will not achieve political legitimacy,or contribute fully to lessening oppression,poverty and injustice around the world...
Very correct. But questioning scripture means doing so sincerely, not hit-and-run discussions with insincere people.
I feel it instructive that the mods cannot maintain peace on the forum,yet the forum claims to have a universal constitution for all mankind from the quran....
And that constitution includes a provision for troublemakers.
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Peace mquran. Strange the way you attribute 'agendas' to those who ask questions of a searching nature,or differ strongly with YOUR interpretations....Or are you going to repeat that persistent; 'you run away from answering', line...
Are you trying to convince yourself.....or the forum.... or both? -
Peace,
We've pretty much made our feelings clear here I hope. If there is nothing constructive to add, let's go along our business. Thanks.
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Peace mquran. Strange the way you attribute 'agendas' to those who ask questions of a searching nature,or differ strongly with YOUR interpretations....Or are you going to repeat that persistent; 'you run away from answering', line...
I LOVE asking questions. Interrogation is something which has benefitted me my whole life. But you know what, Enquirer? I tend to stay till the conversation's over. For people who come, pose questions (in a derogative manner as you did, dont forget) and RUN, such people aren't sincere. They come to vent and when confronted, they run.
Are you trying to convince yourself.....or the forum.... or both?
Convince? Conviction is up to the individual who's being convinced. What I'm after is fair play which, despite you ranting about positive values, you see unfit to give the people you're disrupting.
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Peace guys, I swear somedays I really wish I had a virtual whiffle bat. Run along now and let's see some real debate. Please!
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Peace all. I will just clarify one more time. I will try to answer questions,or debate with people who are respectful,dont expect me to answer 20 questions in one go,and dont continually ask loaded/rhetorical questions.....If i 'run' away from these types of questions/responses,its only to keep the peace.....
Peace all...Ps;discussions are supposed to help with peace....not add to choas.... group -
savage carrot, you take the words out of my virtual mouth..............
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Phoenixthis is what the problem is The people who do not believe every word of the Quran to be divine are labelled the "Quran rejecters" and "enemies of the Quran" and "kafirs." And these people are worse than the "traditional muslims" because they at least believe the Quran to be from God.
I prefer the term 'those who reject the divinity of al-quraan' and 'those who reject the eternal relevance of al-quraan'. Such people aren't necessarily 'kaafir'.
I don't understand why questioning the Quran's divinity is such a big crime.
The crime is in leading people on and wasting their time like Danish, Enquirer and Lote-Tree.
The only thing that results from questions is answers. If people do believe that the Quran isn't from God, and you do, then show them.
Show whom? Their shadows ? They don't stay long enough, Phoenix.
What reveals a person's identity is not what questions they ask, but how they ask them, and more importantly, whether they want the question to be answered, and even more importantly, whether they accept the answer or not if the answer is clear and is proven.
That tells me a lot about the three guys, all right.
Questioning is not a crime.
It never was.
There are too many people on this forum who believe that they KNOW the truth. And because of some reason, their understanding of the Quran has to be the best understanding. And because their understanding is the best understanding, and it dictates that the Quran is from God, then it has to be from God.
My understanding is the best understanding I can find at this given in time. If it were a second best understanding (which means I know there's a best understanding somewhere) , why would I have it? However, new findings filtered through al-quraan may yield new understanding.
We are not discussing, most of the time, proven facts. We are discussing beliefs. We are discussing interpretations of a book. There should be no one on this forum who believes they know without a shadow of a doubt that their interpretation is the best one. Unfortunately, there are. And those people need to take a long, hard look at themselves.
Would you mind naming these figures and quoting the things they say? That's some accusations you're levelling there.
The only way we can have constructive discussions on this forum is if people actually want to learn. If everyone has made up their mind, then there is no point. And those of you who are enlightened and are here only to preach your views without the intention of gaining anything, you shouldn't be here.
Well, I dont think constructive discussion is possible when they dont hang around long enough to answer.
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salam all .
Salaamun alaikum,
The problem with this forum is, people who have IMPLICITLY and EXPLICITLY rejected al-quraan have been allowed to roam free and create discord. While al-quraan allows for freedom of belief, it doesn't allow for people to enter the masjid of others and cause mischief. So whenever any quranic discussion comes about, we find people
- rejecting al-quraan's eternal relevance
- proposing al-quraan's contradictory
- diverting the issue altogether
- worst of all, LIE OUTRIGHT about al-quraan
Therefore, al-quraan itself becomes ignored or diverted. My challenge to the rejectors was one example. As soon as Enquirer got on, he changed the topic completely and rejected my offer to dance to his tune. What he's seeking is a carte blanche to say whatever he wants in a forum which is quranic. I ask , why don't you do that in your own life? Answer because you'd get lynched. So you need to vent your frustration somewhere. That's the long and short of it. It's the same with the others as well.
I suggest this allow each rejector or detractor of the divinity of al-quraan to propose their arguments. Answer them and make sure they don't skirt the issue. If they refuse but keep plastering the walls of the forum with the graffiti, ban them. Unless stern steps are taken, we will NEVER advance in the research of al-quraan and surprise , surprise, this is what they want.
very true . the problem is being caused only by a few Koran rejecting members, who are preventing this forum from achieving its true potential .
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Peace,
The problem with this forum is, people who have IMPLICITLY and EXPLICITLY rejected al-quraan have been allowed to roam free and create discord. While al-quraan allows for freedom of belief, it doesn\'t allow for people to enter the masjid of others and cause mischief.
That is a good and correct observation which will be rectified.
finally! thanks God .
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Once you're secular, i.e. you separate religion and politics, you're no longer, quranically speaking, a muslim.
That is you interpertation, my interpertation is that you neither understand the Quran or politics.
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peace be upon you
let's try an exercise in tolerance
I, if at possible, try to avoid as much argument as possible. If someone's views vastly differ from mine, i dont bother arguing. For example, To me Quran is the most beautiful reading. It enlightens me every time i read it, And to me it is not contradictory at all, but i dont bother responding to those who say 'contradictions' are in the Quran. I chuckle and go on my merry way.
And i am coming from a past full of anger. But God has taught me through the Quran to disregard, disregard, disregard. That's the lesson I've learned.
Here are some verses
6106 Follow what is revealed to you from your Lord, there is no god except He, and disregard the idol worshipers.
6112
We have permitted the enemies of every prophet - human and jinn devils - to inspire in each other fancy words, in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.6137
Thus were the idol worshipers duped by their idols, to the extent of killing their own children. In fact, their idols inflict great pain upon them, and confuse their religion for them. Had GOD willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.7180
To GOD belongs the most beautiful names; call upon Him therewith, and disregard those who distort His names.7199
You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance, and disregard the ignorant.2855
When they come across vain talk, they disregard it and say, "We are responsible for our deeds, and you are responsible for your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not wish to behave like the ignorant ones."3348
Do not obey the disbelievers and the hypocrites, disregard their insults, and put your trust in GOD; GOD suffices as an advocate.37174
So disregard them for awhile.37178
Disregard them for awhile.4389
You shall disregard them and say, "Peace;" they will surely find out.5329
You shall disregard those who turn away from our message, and become preoccupied with this worldly lifepeace all and God bless !
