what scientific evidence from the Quran was not known to the peers of its time?
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Peace,
Yeah, the last one in his post. Check and you will see what i mean. Has nothing to do with being egyptian, but with the doctrine. None of his links had anything to do with this discussion....
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The Bible does contain some truth's about the rain cycle. The Talmud only contains correct observations of the planets movements as what i have discovered now. The Zend Avesta itself contains no scientifical references. The psalms are the ones containing the rain cycle. The Daililama? which one, the one from now? Or the one from 1000 years ago? Whatever it is, not any of them have refered to scienitifical observations. The Bhagada-vita doesn't contain any reference to things that are linked with science. And till know, there have been only found correct references of the embryology in hadith, but those are just the Quranic verses said differently, for the rest all hadith that talk about scienitifical observations are so wrong it is even laughable, there are only a few medical observations in them.
The Veda's do contain some correct observations on solar movement and some observations on medical plants and vedic mathematics are still used today. And Reiki and other forms of medical science were developed like medicins are developed now. The Hopi indian legends do refer to the magnetic poles of the earth in a real profound correct observance, but for the rest their hymns only contain mystical approaches of nature which is also found in hindu, toa and buddist literature which are not scienitifical and don't refer to phenoma in nature, but their spiritual connection with them.So the argument is that becasue these knowledges is collected in one place, it must be from God. I hear christians tell me about one wonder after another, i have spoken to hindus that did that. All relegions have "miracles" that can be interpretated in a modern context. Good thing for me that i atleast know an honest hindu that says, it rely solely on interpretation. And these does the Quranic science i have seen so far. So, you can take thebible and see none of the stuff the xtians are talking about, and they can take the quran and see none of the stuff youre talking about. I wonder what the real problem could be...
My guess is that people see what they want. And have we first convinced ourself of something, we will go out of our way to defend that view. I can easily see the science in the bible, the quran, the veda, however...i can altso see that all of them takes a leap'o'faith.
Peace
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The Bible does contain some truth's about the rain cycle. The Talmud only contains correct observations of the planets movements as what i have discovered now. The Zend Avesta itself contains no scientifical references. The psalms are the ones containing the rain cycle. The Daililama? which one, the one from now? Or the one from 1000 years ago? Whatever it is, not any of them have refered to scienitifical observations. The Bhagada-vita doesn't contain any reference to things that are linked with science. And till know, there have been only found correct references of the embryology in hadith, but those are just the Quranic verses said differently, for the rest all hadith that talk about scienitifical observations are so wrong it is even laughable, there are only a few medical observations in them.
The Veda's do contain some correct observations on solar movement and some observations on medical plants and vedic mathematics are still used today. And Reiki and other forms of medical science were developed like medicins are developed now. The Hopi indian legends do refer to the magnetic poles of the earth in a real profound correct observance, but for the rest their hymns only contain mystical approaches of nature which is also found in hindu, toa and buddist literature which are not scienitifical and don't refer to phenoma in nature, but their spiritual connection with them.As for the links you gave, what has that to do with this discussion or even my ideas? Did i ever claim the Quran to be the oldest book or anyone here on the forum? So useless information and argument. Those books have nothing to do with books containing scientifical knowledge.
As for the Egyptian sunni culture being non-tolerant, this is the sunni thinking, not Quranic thinking, big difference. And you know this. Is like saying, i am german so i got to be a Nazi. This has again nothing to do with the conversation and even with the Quran as it is based on mideavel thinking.
If Muslims and your kin start believing in the crap you just presented above, then it further augments my stance on "quranic divinity". As far as the links to 'oldest books' along with other religious books are concerned, this was given as an impression to the fact that 1) you have not studied ABC's of them nor the Quran, thus boasting about being a "theologist", 2) that Quran is not the only "preserved historic book" which Muslims defiantly and chauvinismly claim coming out a One Supreme Allah, 2) the fact that all of them contain scientific stories including poetry even prior to Quran, 3) the fact that certain "scientific stories" manipulatively extracted from the Quran and claimed superiority over ALL OTHER BOOKS, were not only KNOWN during and prior to Quran but also makes the Quran look much inferior to them in all angles of its composition and compilation methods, which is a FACT.
Magi, we will discuss certain ideas one by one over time.
Bring your manipulative scientific extractions out of Quran and we'll see what happens. I shall prove to you that such claims were ALREADY KNOWN long before the Quran, either via certain events that took place, poetry or idol-worshipping inspirations. The mummification and embryology (meaningless extractions) has been shattered, the "water-cycle" and "celestial movements" you mentioned above are 'self-refuted' in your own post above and I don't need to go into detail. Now, what's next?
So you don't bring in any substance to this discussion. please come back when you do have something substancial...
LOL! Now that was funny. ;D
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The Bible does contain some truth's about the rain cycle. The Talmud only contains correct observations of the planets movements as what i have discovered now. The Zend Avesta itself contains no scientifical references. The psalms are the ones containing the rain cycle. The Daililama? which one, the one from now? Or the one from 1000 years ago? Whatever it is, not any of them have refered to scienitifical observations. The Bhagada-vita doesn't contain any reference to things that are linked with science. And till know, there have been only found correct references of the embryology in hadith, but those are just the Quranic verses said differently, for the rest all hadith that talk about scienitifical observations are so wrong it is even laughable, there are only a few medical observations in them.
The Veda's do contain some correct observations on solar movement and some observations on medical plants and vedic mathematics are still used today. And Reiki and other forms of medical science were developed like medicins are developed now. The Hopi indian legends do refer to the magnetic poles of the earth in a real profound correct observance, but for the rest their hymns only contain mystical approaches of nature which is also found in hindu, toa and buddist literature which are not scienitifical and don't refer to phenoma in nature, but their spiritual connection with them.As for the links you gave, what has that to do with this discussion or even my ideas? Did i ever claim the Quran to be the oldest book or anyone here on the forum? So useless information and argument. Those books have nothing to do with books containing scientifical knowledge.
As for the Egyptian sunni culture being non-tolerant, this is the sunni thinking, not Quranic thinking, big difference. And you know this. Is like saying, i am german so i got to be a Nazi. This has again nothing to do with the conversation and even with the Quran as it is based on mideavel thinking.
If Muslims and your kin start believing in the crap you just presented above, then it further augments my stance on "quranic divinity". As far as the links to 'oldest books' along with other religious books are concerned, this was given as an impression to the fact that 1) you have not studied ABC's of them nor the Quran, thus boasting about being a "theologist", 2) that Quran is not the only "preserved historic book" which Muslims defiantly and chauvinismly claim coming out a One Supreme Allah, 2) the fact that all of them contain scientific stories including poetry even prior to Quran, 3) the fact that certain "scientific stories" manipulatively extracted from the Quran and claimed superiority over ALL OTHER BOOKS, were not only KNOWN during and prior to Quran but also makes the Quran look much inferior to them in all angles of its composition and compilation methods, which is a FACT.
Magi, we will discuss certain ideas one by one over time.
Bring your manipulative scientific extractions out of Quran and we'll see what happens. I shall prove to you that such claims were ALREADY KNOWN long before the Quran, either via certain events that took place, poetry or idol-worshipping inspirations. The mummification and embryology (meaningless extractions) has been shattered, the "water-cycle" and "celestial movements" you mentioned above are 'self-refuted' in your own post above and I don't need to go into detail. Now, what's next?
So you don't bring in any substance to this discussion. please come back when you do have something substancial...
LOL! Now that was funny. ;D
Peace,
- those oldest books don't contain any scientifical information, and i presented the science i have studied in other scriptures which you have not studied, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned the bhagada-vita but the Veda's instead. So your '1' is unwarranted and ignorant.
2.you don't know if it those are not corrupted books, you only have one copy, so this claim is again wrong and cannot be compared.
3.you haven't presented any facts till now, only 2 points which are wrong.
4.you can only speak in angry terms, why the anger?
5.I take your challenge if you discuss in a normal tone like magi. Otherwise i'll ignore your posts.
6.You cannot explain that all scientific facts mentioned in the Quran are all true, that they didn't made a mistake in one.
7.You cannot explain why this knowledge didn't end up in the hadith.
8.Whatever i'm gonna say, you're gonna resist it anyway and bash it, so why talk with you? When i would say blue is blue, you're gonna say it is red just to for the sake to argue.
- those oldest books don't contain any scientifical information, and i presented the science i have studied in other scriptures which you have not studied, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned the bhagada-vita but the Veda's instead. So your '1' is unwarranted and ignorant.
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salams
i think this thread is coming at the question from the wrong angle. the question is not what scientific knowledge can be gleaned from the Quran and how amazing it is and let's marvel at how such knowledge was revealed 1400 years ago to a scientifically primative people.
the point is that if it is from God, there will be no contradiction between science and the Quran. Those things that were not understood years before that are now understood are an example of how the levels of Quranic understanding deepen through time. However, concordance with nature is a side issue and has almost no bearing on what the function of the Quran is. It's certainly nice to see that the creator's words and creator's creation has no contradiction, but to focus on it is like focusing on a car's appearance and not its function. The function of the Quran is social transformation and revolution to a system in which no person has domination over another.
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Peace
I second Tay. Very well nailed down.
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thanks for the kudos guys, wow, some people who don't think i am crazy!
well, let me then also just add a somewhat general comment/hope i have for this forum.
it seems to be that almost everything that gets discussed here on the forum is a sideline or distraction from the whole purpose of the Quran as a medium of social transformation. If we look around as at the "real world," we see that the earth seems to be headed towards destruction and that power and wealth is becoming increasingly concentrated. The powers that be have found effective ways of marginalizing any kind of true democracy (through control of media and public perception), and have fooled people into thinking that the narrow play-yard that has been created for them is true freedom (while people are kept blind to the fact that their so-called governors are abusing them and the world with reckless abandon).
This is the natural consequence of the desires of individuals overcoming the needs and wants of society. At some point, one can expect some critical event such as a disaster or major uprising, following that a period of reform, and then likely a repeat cycle of abuse of power. This is reality and it pervades every essence of our daily lives and is the current direction of this world. This has happened throughout history.
The Quran was revealed as an alternative to save ourselves from this cycle of destruction, to provide a means of establishing rule in which no person has domination over another, only Allah (13). And to finally get to the point, I think that whatever our philosphies and spiritual interpretations of the Quran are, we must always come back to its primary function as a medium of social/political/economic transformation. Then perhaps we will be able to keep things in perspective and not get so worked up over things that as far as policy is concerned, may not really be of immediate concern.
This forum does a great job of breaking free of the mould that has been created by traditionalist Islam which in essence has killed that part of Islam which gives its great strength as a system of life. But we should not get wrapped up in minute details and petty arguments that by themselves are of no great consequence. What matters is arriving at a consensus about how to use the Islamic message to overcome the great evils of our time, and to use it as a uniting and liberating force.
There's simply too many varieties of Quranic interpretation to insist that there is only one correct way (even though there may be only one correct way). It's more important to come together with our different perspectives and establish a unified systematic approach to life that we all find sustainable. Traditionalist hopes that we simply need to do a few more prayers and fasts and hajj is not going to cut it. Allah will not change our condition until we REALLY change what is in ourselves, and that means coming together to implement the Quran with all our collective knowledge to combat the viscious forces at work against not just us but all of humanity. Once the Quranic message takes life, the words will actually REALLY mean something, and then the correct interpretations will make themselves known more easily.
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Peace,
Shuaib, if we still had the karma function, i would have applauded you! D
Good post and good reminder....
Guys i'm busy with doing some business, time to get working...............