Any examples of 'quran only' states from history.....?
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Enquirereace layth. How can you ascertain/verify that a person is lying,ignoring or ridiculing the book...? Some could accuse you of that,and not just with the book,but with god too...
Lying When he says he's read a lot but doesn't know basic stuff.
Ignoring When his answers are absent.
Ridiculing When he accuses the followers of al-quraan to condone harm to humankind.
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Peace,
Making rule changes does not dispel those doubts...
The rule addition has nothing to do with dispelling your doubts (that is between you and God)...The rule is to allow the students of the Scripture to have a place to study/reflect/ponder the words of the Scripture.
How can you ascertain/verify that a person is lying,ignoring or ridiculing the book...? Some could accuse you of that,and not just with the book,but with god too...
Hmmm, let me see...When a person presents an issue and is shown a clear verse in the Scripture that adresses his/her concern, but then that person moves on to repeat the same claim as if they had never been presented with the evidence, that is clearly
ignoringthe words of the Scripture.In your case you have rejected the entire book as being from God, so that would simply make you a
rejectorof God`s revelations.And isnt there ridicule of other religions,scriptures,alternative definitions of god,dissenting voices,by some \'quran only\' members on this site....?
The difference between what you do and what others on this site do is as follows
- You reject the words of the Almighty and the system He decreed for His creation.
- Others here reject the words of man and the system they falsely attribute to the creator.
If you are quran-only why not follow verse 6109...?
Or is this a rule to sugar-coat and protect sectarian interests...?I am a muslim/submitter (not
quran only)Also, I believe you mean 6108.
Do you take the terms used in the Scripture of
idolworshiipersandrejectorsas theswear wordsto be avoided in 6108? -
Peace mquran. All three of your points are pretty subjective,unproven,conjectural,and your opinion... Glad the legal system is way better than this in secular systems.... bravo
Peace layth. I know you previously changed some of the verse-numbers to suit your own translation,so maybe it is 6108...
You seem to be in love with your own ideology...you speak as if you ARE gods spokesman...
By your own definitions you may be an idol-worshipper,as you may be idolising your own ideology. ...Caught in your own web of illusions...?
I myself will just say you need to reflect on your thoughts,motives and behaviour...
Peace all. -
Peace,
You seem to be in love with your own ideology...you speak as if you ARE gods spokesman...
God is His own speokesman...Just because you choose to ignore His words (revelations/verses) when they are presented is no need to start making wild accusations.
I myself will just say you need to reflect on your thoughts,motives and behaviour...
I know where I stand when it comes to the rejectors.
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Peace mquran. All three of your points are pretty subjective,unproven,conjectural,and your opinion... Glad the legal system is way better than this in secular systems....
Better? Try not paying your taxes. They put octogenarians in the nick for not paying council tax. Do me a favour!
You seem to be in love with your own ideology...
What's wrong with that. In a world full of jahl (superficiality leading to lack of intelligence), to be able to rely on something so solid is revitalising. I appreciate al-quraan has been obfuscated to the point where it looks like a religious book (as per your assertions about al-quraan) but once the veil has been lifted even to a small extent, the conceptual power of the book is amazing. Of course, I cannot objectively prove any of this as I cannot make you see.
By your own definitions you may be an idol-worshipper,as you may be idolising your own ideology. ...Caught in your own web of illusions...?
If one follows al-quraan fanatically (the word 'fanatical' doesn't connote hatred of other people and their rights in this context) , one would be according to the assertion of al-quraan 'worshipping Allah'. So no, there's no danger of idol-worship, quranically speaking.
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Peace layth. How can you ascertain/verify that a person is lying,ignoring or ridiculing the book...? Some could accuse you of that,and not just with the book,but with god too...
And isnt there ridicule of other religions,scriptures,alternative definitions of god,dissenting voices,by some 'quran only' members on this site....?
If you are quran-only why not follow verse 6109...?
Or is this a rule to sugar-coat and protect sectarian interests...?
I will see what you think of this verse...
'So do you believe in a part of the book,and then reject a part..........'? (285.)
peace.Can you show an example of a Qur'an-alone member that has said something like this?
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Peace layth. How can you ascertain/verify that a person is lying,ignoring or ridiculing the book...? Some could accuse you of that,and not just with the book,but with god too...
And isnt there ridicule of other religions,scriptures,alternative definitions of god,dissenting voices,by some 'quran only' members on this site....?
If you are quran-only why not follow verse 6109...?
Or is this a rule to sugar-coat and protect sectarian interests...?
I will see what you think of this verse...
'So do you believe in a part of the book,and then reject a part..........'? (285.)
peace.Can you show an example of a Qur'an-alone member that has said something like this?
Can you show that 'enquirer' said that a Qur'an-alone member said something like that? Lies upon lies you guys sweat out just to have fun with the Quran? Pathetic.
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Peace layth. How can you ascertain/verify that a person is lying,ignoring or ridiculing the book...? Some could accuse you of that,and not just with the book,but with god too...
And isnt there ridicule of other religions,scriptures,alternative definitions of god,dissenting voices,by some 'quran only' members on this site....?
If you are quran-only why not follow verse 6109...?
Or is this a rule to sugar-coat and protect sectarian interests...?
I will see what you think of this verse...
'So do you believe in a part of the book,and then reject a part..........'? (285.)
peace.Can you show an example of a Qur'an-alone member that has said something like this?
Can you show that 'enquirer' said that a Qur'an-alone member said something like that? Lies upon lies you guys sweat out just to have fun with the Quran? Pathetic.
Umm, excuse me? Don't bring in more insults, please. He said
And isnt there ridicule of other religions,scriptures,alternative definitions of god,dissenting voices,by some 'quran only' members on this site....?
And I simply asked if he could show an example of a Qur'an-alone member saying something like that. Surely, he wouldn't just bring up that question out of nowhere, correct? I didn't insult him, discriminate, or anything.
Lies upon lies you guys sweat out just to have fun with the Quran? Pathetic.
Please explain what you mean, because I see no "lie." Yet you bring in more insults. Fun with Qur'an? Pathetic? Please explain what you mean by these insults.
Peace.
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Did you just skim my pervious post or simply didn't understand or perhaps I am dealing with an illeterate kiddo? Huh?
First of all, you didn't spell illiterate correctly, but that's beside the point. This is just amazing. I don't know what this forum is turning into. Sigh.
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Peace layth. How can you ascertain/verify that a person is lying,ignoring or ridiculing the book...? Some could accuse you of that,and not just with the book,but with god too...
And isnt there ridicule of other religions,scriptures,alternative definitions of god,dissenting voices,by some 'quran only' members on this site....?
If you are quran-only why not follow verse 6109...?
Or is this a rule to sugar-coat and protect sectarian interests...?
I will see what you think of this verse...
'So do you believe in a part of the book,and then reject a part..........'? (285.)
peace.Can you show an example of a Qur'an-alone member that has said something like this?
Can you show that 'enquirer' said that a Qur'an-alone member said something like that? Lies upon lies you guys sweat out just to have fun with the Quran? Pathetic.
Umm, excuse me? Don't bring in more insults, please. He said
And isnt there ridicule of other religions,scriptures,alternative definitions of god,dissenting voices,by some 'quran only' members on this site....?
And I simply asked if he could show an example of a Qur'an-alone member saying something like that. Surely, he wouldn't just bring up that question out of nowhere, correct? I didn't insult him, discriminate, or anything.
Lies upon lies you guys sweat out just to have fun with the Quran? Pathetic.
Please explain what you mean, because I see no "lie." Yet you bring in more insults. Fun with Qur'an? Pathetic? Please explain what you mean by these insults.
It is you who is creating unecessary problems? Do you read and understand what was said by enquirer who was questioning Layth and did you check other members posts throughout this forum for what he is talking about? Why run around in circles, if you'd paid attention to what was going on rather than suddenly you barge in out of nowhere.
You also started an uproar (fitna) by throwing in a verse in the "surah like it" section right after my post and then went on hibernation, instead of refuting my concerns? Why?
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I've read enquirer's post for a long time now, and they have no substance at all. I'm not creating unnecessary problems; I'll tell you what is. Enquirer making claims, people refuting them, then he not responding. All I asked was enquirer to show an example of a Qur'an-alone member ridiculing anyone for their beliefs. That's it. Nothing else. It seems to bother you.
I did not start an "uproar." I simply posted a verse that completely related to what the thread was about. How is that starting an uproar?
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DanishYou also started an uproar (fitna) by throwing in a verse in the "surah like it" section right after my post and then went on hibernation, instead of refuting my concerns? Why?
Your 'sura like it' concerns is rather mystifying. You provide a link which you yourself cannot read (lol) and then you ask someone to respond? Learn to read the pages first, will you?
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Peace,
These debates have to much personal emotional language. If we want these Quran divinity Threads to work, we must be objective even when others are not. These debates are now focussing on personalities and not on the points given.
From now on it is better that people ignore baseless or ignorant posts. If you believe enquirer or any other person avoids the responses you posted and gives in your eyes an avoiding and deviating response then just say this is no response to my post. Nothing more, no personal comments, nothing. That is more proffesional and makes sure people will stop posting avoiding responses. And makes sure the thread doesn't deviade into people feeling offended.
And i don't want anybody saying, but arnold he said this, or arnold he behaves likes this. I say, who cares! Act proffesional or don't act at all. If both sides cannot behave and be proffesional, then stop discussing as both sides are waisting space on this forum. I have seen to much bickering from both sides and i'm sick of it!
Peace
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Arnold, I hear your frustration but you've made one assumption here That guys like Enquirer and Danish are here for an honest and sincere discussion or even debate. They are not. They are for an ego massage, for us to admit to them that their 'evolution' past the scripture (as Danish say, he has surpassed it) is the ultimate thing. If they had even a remote grasp of the scripture, that'd be at least worthy of consideration but Enquirer had a eureka moment yesterday when he found out that al-quraan affords protection to everyone regardless of belief ( and thats after a QUARTER OF A CENTURY OF STUDY) !!! Danish goes with 'both western and islamic scholars' of whom he cannot identify and posts a link which he cannot read himself. Can't you see what an ludicrous situation this is?
They're not here for that, Arnold. They're here to dump all over our beliefs. The only way to alleviate the situation is to get them to substantiate because in their dictionary 'substantiate' means 'create another thread with another issue' or 'run and hide for a few days'.
Don't expect any honest debate from them.
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Peace open-mind and all. This forum is riddled with insults,criticisms and ridicules of hadith,sunnism,christianity,judaism,secularism,etc,etc...And the majority of it is from 'quran only members'....Now you want proof for this i understand...Well just look at the hadith section for one....look at the christianity section,in fact on most every section there is insulting and ridicule of other religions and ideologies. (hell,just read mquran,layths,kgbs and abs posts ...)....If you really think there is not any ridiculing by 'quran only members then either you have a totally different view of what 'ridicule' is, or ....well i will leave you to fill in the blanks...
These comments by open-mind,layth,mquran and others finally shows me that all this talk about dodging questions,insults,ridiculing verses etc,is just a sectarian non-sense by people who cant handle construtive criticism....I reflected a few times on my approach and the charge that i avoided questions.....Now i know that i have tried to modify my approach and answer more directly,but i realise that some of you will just repeat accusations over and over just to try to discredit some-one.....Well you can discredit me in your OWN minds,but reality bites,and you still havent addressed or come to terms with GENUINE quranic criticism....
I must state that a large majority of 'debaters' on the 'quranic divinity' issue are acting like apologists,re-interpreters,juveniles,and seem to be OBSSESSED with the quran.....Never mind god,just idolise a book...
Danish has stepped up to the plate.....Now lets see what people can come up with....
This world can be very tough at times,and i think some of you are no way tough enough to defend the 'indefensible'...
Peace all. muscle handshake -
Peace
Enquirer, you still bring forth no example. Sorry.
And I've invited you to kindly debate with me, about anything. And you still haven't responded in that thread. I wanted to know why "it's unethical to debate with a 14 year old." If you're not willing to discuss or bring evidence for claims (for example, Qur'an-alone people always ridicule others for their beliefs without showing one example), what are you here for?
So I say again I'm willing to kindly discuss all your concerns on the Qur'an. Why not take the offer?
