Question for Sunni or Shia Muslims.
-
Salaam,
On a related topic (http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1176.0), Brother Layth quoted this from the Quran -
Peace,
The messenger believes in what was sent down to him from his Lord. And the believers, all who believe in God, and His angels, and His Scriptures, and His messengersWe do not differentiate between any of His messengers;and they saidWe hear and obey, forgive us O Lord, and to you is our destiny.` (2285)Now, my question is to all the Sunni or Shia Muslims (or whatever other sect you belong to) -
Do you care about the Prophet Muhammad MORE than the other Prophets?
Now before anyone responds to it immediately, please think about the following -
When the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad were published by the media, did you FEEL offended? Did you go to any of the protests? Did you at all react in anger to this blasphemy?
Now, try this on for size -
When Monty Python's "Life of Brian" (a parody of Jesus) was aired on TV, did you FEEL offended? Did you protest at all? Did you react at all in anger to this blasphemy?
If you get angry over blasphemous images of the Prophet Muhammad, then surely you must feel the same when Jesus is made a mockery of? If you protest at the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad because they depict a falsehood of his character, then you should protest over every image of a crucifix with as much energy because the crucifix is just as much a falsehood of the character of Jesus.
Now if you have been honest enough with yourself in the full knowledge that God knows exactly what is in your heart, then perhaps you may be able to see that YOU may have made a distinction between God's messengers yourself. This is the idol worshipping behaviour many of us on this forum have clarified for ourselves and thus have rejected it.
Finally, I'd just like to point out that the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad were indeed disrespectful, but just think for a moment; why would these cartoonists get the idea to draw the Prophet in such an insulting manner? Why would these cartoonists draw the Prophet with a bomb on his head? The Prophet Muhammad and the name of Islam has been brought into disgrace by Muslims themselves, by those who have broken up into sects and claim authority of the hadith next to the Quran. It has undoubtedly been the behaviour of those Muslims who follow other than the Quran alone, and the violence they have commited that have brought the Prophet into disrepute. These are the ingredients that have led to this problem, nothing else.
Peace,
Stitch
-
peace
well put
I'd just like to correct one thing if i may
When you said
"by those who have broken up into sects and claim authority of the hadith next to the Quran"
I'd say more like they treat hadith superior to the Quran (though they will never admit it) But where do they get almost all of their laws? The hadith !
And post more often bro )
-
I actually agree with ik here about acting as if hadith is superior to the Qur'an. By claiming that the Qur'an cannot be properly understood without the aid of hadith, they have therefore granted hadith a superior position vis a vis the Qur'an, and not just a "second source."
No sectarian practicioner will admit this, of course. This is just another example of lip service, however. Saying you believe in "one God" does not necessarily make it so (e.g. those who claim Jesus to be God also believe there is "one God"; this, within the Qur'anic worldview is not monotheism). Similarly, saying you don't believe the hadith are superior to the Qur'an does not actually make it so; pure lip service.
Peace.
-
And post more often bro
i agree
Similarly, saying you don't believe the hadith are superior to the Qur'an does not actually make it so; pure lip service.
I have actually heard a few Muhammadens say "the book of god is no good" coz we need hadith to explain it.
Too many Muhammadens I know have not even heard of that verse that tells us not to differentiate the messengers.... and they believe that if God did not create Muhammad he would not have created the universe.
Even those that heard of the commandant not to differentiate the messengers cannot even give a logical argument to why they blatantly put Muhammad above all the messengers.
peace,
sugar -
And post more often bro )
And post more often bro )
i agree )
Thank you so much IK and Sugar, you have no idea how much that means to me after so much ill-treatment from traditionalists, I am comforted to find that at least some people appreciate my view. )
Have you ever seen the Sunni/Shias defending the reputation of Noah, Abraham, Moses or Jesus (the most mocked religious figure of them all) with as much fervour as they would for the Prophet Muhammad? When I have asked a few about this they have quietened down, deflated and unsure of how to retort. I then ask if they have read the Quran, and often enough the same defeated look appears on their face and they become deflated as they expose themselves and admit they haven't. At this point it is most apparent at just how much their own faith is based on just following others. I know this as fact, because this is a description of how I once used to be.
Finally, I'd like to say this -
Everyone on this forum, whether you be Quran alone, Sunni, Shia or whatever, I personally believe that every single one of you truly believes in God, and so you owe it to yourself for the good of your own soul to purge yourself of ALL doubt and ill-informed practices in the pursuit of God's truth.
God knows what is in your hearts, just be honest with yourself.
Peace,
Stitch
-
Salaamun alaikum Stich, everyone.
During the Danish cartoons incident, I asked some sunni co-workers why they were emotional. Their answer was that Prophet Muhammad was the beloved of God bla bla bla. Ok fine, I replied, and al-quraan promised him that he would have victory in this world and the next. Do you believe in this promise, I asked? And of course they did. So if this is case, all the disparagement in the world really doesn't harm the Prophet in any way, does it? Of course, all this did was increase my reputation as the company 'kafir in disguise'
-
Salaam brother Stitch,
I agree with you ...I myself used to differentiate among messengers by mentioning "SAW" for Muhammad and "AS" for other messengers. Even worse, when I recited shalawat to Muhammad, I was hoping to receive shafaat from him on the day of judgment as the hadith explains. I also used to feel nothing when for example Jesus is insulted (as we know many insults against Jesus can easily be found on the net). In addition to that, I considered Muhammad to be the best of the bests. After reading quran I realize my mistake.
This is an example of verses which make me realize my mistake
345 Lo! The angels said "O Mary! Behold, God sends thee the glad tiding, through a word from Him, who shall become known as the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, of great honour in this world and in the life to come, and of those who are drawn near unto God.
So since I came to God Alone, I stop differentiating messengers. I no longer worry whether Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Kulayni, Thabari, etc have successfully preserved the sayings of Muhammad or not (which is NOT) the same way I am not worried whether the sayings of messengers such as Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Yoseph, Jonah, etc are preserved in Bible or not.
-
And post more often bro
And post more often bro
i agree
Thank you so much IK and Sugar, you have no idea how much that means to me after so much ill-treatment from traditionalists, I am comforted to find that at least some people appreciate my view.
Everyone on this forum, whether you be Quran alone, Sunni, Shia or whatever, I personally believe that every single one of you truly believes in God, and so you owe it to yourself for the good of your own soul to purge yourself of ALL doubt and ill-informed practices in the pursuit of God's truth.
God knows what is in your hearts, just be honest with yourself.
Peace,
Stitch
peace stitch
I completely agree with the above ! And don't let others get you down, I completely understand where you are coming from, i just try to brush it off the best i can. I will give you some advice ( that you can mention to people who try to mock you etc...) straight from the Quran in relation to this
We sent down to you this scripture, truthfully; you shall worship GOD, devoting your religion to Him alone.
Absolutely, the religion shall be devoted to GOD alone. Those who set up idols beside Him say, "We idolize them only to bring us closer to GOD; for they are in a better position!" GOD will judge them regarding their disputes. GOD does not guide such liars, disbelievers.
Say, "I have been commanded to worship GOD, devoting the religion absolutely to Him alone.
Say, "I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great day."
Say, "GOD is the only One I worship, devoting my religion absolutely to Him alone.
Is GOD not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the idols they set up beside Him. Whomever GOD sends astray, nothing can guide him.
If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they will say, "GOD." Say, "Why then do you set up idols beside GOD? If GOD willed any adversity for me, can they relieve such an adversity? And if He willed a blessing for me, can they prevent such a blessing?" Say, "GOD is sufficient for me." In Him the trusters shall trust.
When GOD ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion. But when others are mentioned beside Him, they become satisfied.
chapter 39 is one of my favorites because of those beautiful verses
God bless
-
Well honestly I didnt feel angry about the cartoons but I did feel a bit put off by it. I mean the cartoons were disrespectful in every manner. Freedom of expression doesnt necessarily mean you can do anything. One should be allowed to insult another's religion cus religion is quite a touchy matter! I didnt join any protests or anything whatsoever! I told my parents that and they said that my faith isnt as strong as it should be! My dad was being all sentimental and said he could give his life in the name of Islam or kill the person who drew the pictures! I would never agree with that cus I think all the Prophets (PBUH) are the same ! Sunnis definitely favour Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) compared to the other Prophets ! Shias on the other hand favour Hazrat Ali (PBUH) compared to any other person!
fftopic I always have this argument with my parents that theres no need to follow Hadiths and that the Quran is all that we need! My dad gets pissed off and says that I shouldnt be saying these things! Not listening to Hadiths and Sunna is against Islam and ppl would kill me in Pakistan if I said it! I just feel claustrophobic in my house!!Anyways what do u guys think ?
-
Salaam brother ammarb87,
Anyways what do u guys think ?
Which one do you ask?
Sunnis definitely favour Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) compared to the other Prophets ! Shias on the other hand favour Hazrat Ali (PBUH) compared to any other person!
This one? I agree with you bro ...but I just want to say that even though that is the reality, sunnis will not admit that they are differentiating messengers. The same also for shias ...even though they are always favouring imam Ali (simply speaking shia imams are of higher ranks than all prophets except prophet Muhammad - and sometimes I feel even prophet Muhammad is irrelevant for them) they will not admit it. Borrowing the term from brother CavemanDoctor PURE LIP SERVICE
393 Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say) "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful.
I always have this argument with my parents that theres no need to follow Hadiths and that the Quran is all that we need! My dad gets pissed off and says that I shouldnt be saying these things! Not listening to Hadiths and Sunna is against Islam and ppl would kill me in Pakistan if I said it! I just feel claustrophobic in my house!!
1112 Then, it may be that you will give up part of what is revealed to you and your breast will become straitened by it because they say Why has not a treasure been sent down upon him or an angel come with him? You are only a warner; and Allah is custodian over all things.
I believe everyone of us who is inviting to God Alone will surely be confronted with such tests. However, in any case it is our duty to invite others to PURE MONOTHEISM. Allah will not change the condition if we don't work for it. This is the sunna of Allah.
May Allah strengthen you bro so that you can keep doing da'wa.
-
peace ammarb87,
"I would never agree with that cus I think all the Prophets (PBUH) are the same ! Sunnis definitely favour Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) compared to the other Prophets ! Shias on the other hand favour Hazrat Ali (PBUH) compared to any other person!"
Actually they do favor him (muhammad) over any person ever created. That he's the best God created etc. etc... )
When your parents tell you need hadith and sunnah. Tell them God calls the Quran Infallible, Perfect, Fully-detailed, Complete. Ask them now what does that mean?
If they say 'well obeying the hadith is obeying the 'messenger' ' then tell them why they dont accept the bible (Jesus' hadith) ?
53 ...Today I have perfected your system for you, and completed My blessings upon you, and I have accepted surrender as the system for you. ...
... Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you.
...Now what does Today mean?
-
I'd say more like they treat hadith superior to the Quran (though they will never admit it) But where do they get almost all of their laws? The hadith !
I have to totally agree
cheers
-
Guys its easy to say all this but the situation becomes more complex. I mean I and my sister try to avoid talking about religion with my parents! They just different view points. I rather not disturb the harmony of the house than talk about a thing which will anger them !
-
peace ammarb
I know your exact situation. I had the same problem, I just would not quit with the discussions. But I accepted things as they were. and ultimately i stopped. We have to realize we can't guide, Only God can guide. And God guides those who WANT to be guided. Who WANT to improve. I think you should avoid all religious discussions w/ your family. Because we always get into trouble, get into heated arguments and it leads to us mistreating our parents, And that leads to us disobeying God by not treating our parents honorably. Remember though Satan will try to bait you into getting into arguments, just ignore (i am saying from personal experience).
1784 Say "Let each work according to his own. Your Lord is fully aware of who is best guided to the path."
That's all we can do. The judgement is up to God. Our job is to search for the truth, and encourage others to search for the truth. But if they don't want to do that, then God will deal with them.
Peace,
Imran
-
peace ammarb
I know your exact situation. I had the same problem, I just would not quit with the discussions. But I accepted things as they were. and ultimately i stopped. We have to realize we can't guide, Only God can guide. And God guides those who WANT to be guided. Who WANT to improve. I think you should avoid all religious discussions w/ your family. Because we always get into trouble, get into heated arguments and it leads to us mistreating our parents, And that leads to us disobeying God by not treating our parents honorably. Remember though Satan will try to bait you into getting into arguments, just ignore (i am saying from personal experience).
1784 Say "Let each work according to his own. Your Lord is fully aware of who is best guided to the path."
That's all we can do. The judgement is up to God. Our job is to search for the truth, and encourage others to search for the truth. But if they don't want to do that, then God will deal with them.
Peace,
Imran
Hey man
Thats really good advice! Just the way you put things together really appealed to me especially that quote from the Quran!
Yeah I just try to avoid have arguments with my parents and I am going to tell my sister the same ! But you know Satan most of the times just wants you to argue with them. He makes you have the 'urge' -
peace dude
Thats really good advice! Just the way you put things together really appealed to me especially that quote from the Quran!
No problem bro. The Quran is the best at such great advice.
But you know Satan most of the times just wants you to argue with them. He makes you have the 'urge'
keep in mind the only reason for satan's existence is to 'claim' as many humans as he can. Just try the best you can to avoid the urge. I definitely understand though. It was hard at first, but you will get there God Willing.
-
Salaam all,
I am surprised that no "traditionalist" has responded to my original question on this post yet.
I often hear Sunni/Shia Muslims that I know say "Jesus Christ" in bursts of anger or surprise. When I've asked them if they heard someone say "Prophet Muhammad" in the same vein as they have just said "Jesus Christ", would they find it acceptable/offensive? Of course they always realise their mistake when I ask this but then just continue to do what they've grown up doing and continue to make a distinction between the Prophets, holding Muhammad in an-almost God-like reverance.
Peace,
Stitch
-
peace stitch
I am surprised that no "traditionalist" has responded to my original question on this post yet.
haha i dont think there are any left anymore.
Of course they always realise their mistake when I ask this but then just continue to do what they've grown up doing and continue to make a distinction between the Prophets, holding Muhammad in an-almost God-like reverance
The problem is they are working backwards. They have already taken what their parents/traditions told them as fact. And now everything is about defending what they do, abusing the Quran. How many times is that 'excuse' mentioned in the Quran...'but what we found our parents doing was sufficient' I feel that they portray (God forbid i utter this) Muhammad as more merciful than God. Let me give you 2 examples
-So What God tells us to do is obligatory, and what Muhammad did is extra credit. Nevermind the fact that God already TOLD us that our sins count as one, and our good deeds count TEN times.
- The silly hadith about how we were ascribed 50 prayers (every 28 minutes) and Muhammad bargained with God to lower it to 5.
-
Funny fatwa by Ayatollah Sistani. I think it's pretty old but it cracked me up!
http//www.metacafe.com/watch/154074/sestani_fatwa_web_site/
funny, but the show's host is a total Islam-hater.