I believe this is a cult
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I was just joking salt... D
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I was just joking salt... D
it's S-U-G-A-R jedi
so you were joking about teaching islamic history in a sunni mosque?
peace,
sugar -
No i wasn't joking about that part....
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No i wasn't joking about that part....
if you don't mention hadith and sunnah what do you tell them? confused
I know some very good fairy tales ;D
but exclude the fairy tales and hadith and sunnah, what are you left with? confused
peace,
sugar -
Peace,
i believe this is a cult as the members are always bitter and have the same subject they hate- the sunnis!
This place might be a cult if you consider that people are perhaps bitter when it comes to the subject of setting-up partners with God and blaspheming His name/message...And they are happy and extatic when it comes to revearing the Almighty and studying His commands.
i know someone who uses this forum and i have seen this person change in ways i cannot understand.
this is a brief description of the change-
- a lot of bitterness against sunnis
- treating sunnis like they are less than human (calls them superficially nice, simple people but nasty to the core)
- advocating and actively promoting what layth says in his articles (eg. hajj article)
- advocating that sunnis are idol worshippers
- sunnis cannot be included in the brotherhood of Islam
- cutting off all relations with sunnis, even if they are siblings or immediate family members
To answer you question, your friend is correct that Sunnis are mushrikeen...This is a fact as long as they continue to reject God`s assertion that His book is complete and they set-up partners who give them laws to follow other than what God has revealed.
How your friend decides to deal with such people is upto him, as long as he maintains justice in all his dealings.
With regards to anything I have written or said here or elsewhere...It is my responsibility to present what I believe is true and correct with evidence...It is the responsibility of the reader to verify and question, never to simply accept.
P.S. You insult many people by claiming that this forum or website are representing my views (Layth`s site!)...This forum and site is a representation of the work of the many people who have written and who share their ideas.
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Peace,
To Andfutuna, you said that sugar assumed that you were a sunni, but you assumed that free-minds.org is a cult, why assuming at all!? )
Maria
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Peace,
To Andfutuna, you said that sugar assumed that you were a sunni, but you assumed that free-minds.org is a cult, why assuming at all!?
Maria
peace Maria, nicely put
All these are forms and words. Each Idol has a form.
Cult, Sunni, Quran-only, God-only are all just words. A vibration going from one mouth to another ear! The ISSUE is the MESSAGE being conveyed and not what is the name of the conveyor. The real message passes through ear unto Mind and Then into HEART.
Wise said MOON IS UP THERE. DON,T stare at the finger!
Either we are able to convey the message or we are going to be absorbed in the fight of FORMS.peace
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Peace andfutuna
I would invite you to take a look around at all the threads. Pick a thread any thread - you'll find a miriad of opinions!
You'll find some opposed and some in favor - and even those in favor have shades of differences.You'll see for yourself how instead of this being a cult (only one accepted way of thinking, and all follow the leader blindly) it is a free speech forum where all opinions are accepted, provided you respect others' dignity.
peace -
Peace be upon you,
i believe this is a cult as the members are always bitter and have the same subject they hate- the sunnis!
Ok We hope that you will do with your beliefs that same that ALL MANKIND must do and take them to the testing grounds to ascertain if that "belief" is Knowledge or not because the God says that "we shall not go after that which we have no knowledge of" and tells us to ask "My Lord, increase me in knowledge/Knowing".
Knowing and believeing are not the same. Believing ALWYAS mean you dont KNOW. Whehn you KNOW, you say, I KNOW, when you are not sure you say "I Believe", because you cannot reason it through.
We respect your opinion, but here we must take all opinions to the open court and let the "throwing" commence.
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doesn't a cult have fixated rules about everything; That's the complete opposite of how it's like here, most people here have different views (which i feel is a good thing) Since most peoples' point(s) of view(s) are different. To me what's a great movie could be to you a horrible movie.
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Peace ik
JACK BAUER ROCKS ;D
I'm addicted to 24
it's a shame we gotta wait a million months for the new episodes! brickwallsorry for the off-topic angel
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peace soul2squeeze
haha AWESOME !
I am addicted to it too ! Bauer is the man !
Yeah 7 months !! Aahhh !! Though lately (for me) this month went by fast.
Hehe sorry for going off-topic too ;D
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this is a brief description of the change-
- a lot of bitterness against sunnis
- treating sunnis like they are less than human (calls them superficially nice, simple people but nasty to the core)
- advocating and actively promoting what layth says in his articles (eg. hajj article)
- advocating that sunnis are idol worshippers
- sunnis cannot be included in the brotherhood of Islam
- cutting off all relations with sunnis, even if they are siblings or immediate family members
Peace Andfutuna
I understand what you have said about the cult. I think what you meant is that you feel that people blindly follow the articles that are on the website. This is really only a question that individual members can answer. However, I feel that looking at the variety of postings here you will come to realise that this is not the case.
I myself was worried that I was too influenced by these articles and blindly following them, so I did my own study for a bit, and I have realised that you need the help of others, at least intially anyway.
As for your points, of course we are only hearing one side anyway. As for 1) Isn't this understandable - especially if they have just embraced Islam and were previously Sunni?
Point 2) is obviously an overstatement but I must admit that I have never met a Sunni who treated me the same after I left their religion. Their intolerance is the most striking feature and the lack of desire to have a genuine dialogue (of course related to the intolerance). I also find the ardent Sunnis are able to comprehend simple issues, but beyond this (e.g. freedom of religion) their morality really does fall down. This is no coincidence in a religion which preaches that the key to salvation lies in mindless rituals. No matter how intelligent an ardent Sunni is, on religious/moral issues they are all extremely backward (from my experience). The low point of this was attending a 'Friday prayer' at a University and being told that there was no conflict of interest between killing an apostate and freedom of religion. This is because the person is, apparently free to make the decision and then he is killed!
Point 3) - this person has to make sure that he is not following humans as a source of law, much like those that follow 'Rashad Khilafah' (www.submission,org).
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Should we take only God as a source of law?
Is the Quran from God?
Are the 'hadith' from God? -
See point 4
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See 328 and I am sure there are lots of other examples of similar quotes.
Of course, all of the above is my opinion.
Roshan
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- advocating that sunnis are idol worshippers
Again mistaken that every person is an individual and that only God can judge. Shirk is a wide wide subject, not just based on things like following hadith next to the Quran, he should be more carefull in his judgement.
- sunnis cannot be included in the brotherhood of Islam
Again Islam is a wide wide subject. Thus again his ideas on Islam is from a narrow view.
- cutting off all relations with sunnis, even if they are siblings or immediate family members.
This is ignorant. What i see in your friend is a lot of anger against his old self, and blaming this on others. Also he 'protects' himself by cutting of relationships or be bitter, which shows his weak knowledge and faith. He forgets that the Quran says to always say peace and to be good to everyone. I hope he will learn in time and finds his balance back. He generalizes to much.
I also disagree with most ideas in sunnism, but i talk with them about it in a friendly matter, as the Quran demands. Look at the story of the Pharoah, were Moses is ordered to stay nice with the Pharoah. This is the real attitude described in the Quran. Your friend is now in a phase that he has to find himself again, and to widen his knowledge. Anger is always based on fear. So his actions are based on his fear of sunnis. I myself have no problem with them, but i understand his feelings. Give him time. I teach sunnis islamic history in the local mosque. I follow the Quran alone, but i focus on the things in common, so we can build bridges. I do the same with christians and jews and hindus and so on.
Peace
Peace Arnoldyasin
Point 4 + 5 Bearing in mind the numerous quotations about shall I seek other than God as a source of law when he has sent this book to you in detail etc. how can you not believe that the Sunni religion involves worshipping idols. Those idols being Bukhari, Muslim, those who invented the sayings and maybe even Muhammad. Of course we have to judge what is right and wrong, because we will be judged ourselves on the day of judgement. Hasn't God given us the ears and the eyes to evaluate for ourselves exactly what he wants? Doesn't this, therefore, involve judging?
Point 6 What do you make of 328 and the numerous other verses that say much the same? As for the story of Moses - are you sure? Wasn't this more a question of biding one's time rather than taking those who associate with God as protectors/guardians.
Roshan
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Peace,
As i said, shirk is a wide wide subject. Of course i know the verses. But you cannot judge a group, only individuals, that is what i said.
As for 328, you take it out of context, it says don't take rejectors as friends INSTEAD of believers, it doesn't say that you cannot befriend rejectors at all. It only warns that you cannot prefer rejectors over believers. We can befriend those who don't fight us over our religion and are not tyrants.
608 Allah does not forbid you from being kind, and fully equitable to those
who do not fight you on account of Religion, and do not evict you from your
homelands. Behold, Allah loves those who lead a just, balanced life.
609 Allah only forbids you from befriending only those who fight you on
account of Religion and evict you from your homelands, or help others in
evicting you. Whoever befriends them, it is they, they who will be wrongdoers.Peace
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peace all
Come on brothers, we all dislike sunnis and other sects cose they follow blind faith and they have extrem thoughts,
so why r u doing the same?? after all they r still muslims, they know what the coran says, and for them, the hadiths
r not above the coran, but they do follow it. After all, the coran urges the muslims to obey the teaching the messenger.
So plz stop this shirk & kafeer calls for any muslim, if they say that to others sects, we shall not.
And i don't think verse 328 apply to them, they r not rejectors, the coran is their book, they believe in the only GOD,
and there r believers among them. And of course this goes for all other sects.
Saying "There is no god but ALLAH" is enough, and the rest will be judged by GOD.
salam -
peace
6159 Those who have divided their system and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Their matter will be with God, then He will inform them of what they had done.
Now we aren't to ridicule them, we are not to ridicule/mock anyone. But we are certainly not to take them as friends either.
you really think they believe Hadith are not above the Quran? Sure they may say that. So tell me what's obligatory in the sunni religion? Whatever God tells you to right? and what's SUPERIOR, doing whatever Muhammad did correct? Extra credit right? Where do they get almost all of their laws The hadith. Everything in the Quran is SUPERSEDED by the hadith. Okay let's say obeying the hadith is obeying the messenger. Then why dont they obey the hadith of Moses and Jesus. They are not messengers? Oh right, the people who wrote their hadith didn't have muslim names, so they are not trustworthy. Bottomline God calls the Quran Complete, Full-Detailed and Perfect. Now what does that mean?
When the hypocrites come to you they say, "We bear witness that you are the messenger of GOD." GOD knows that you are His messenger, and GOD bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
Who bears witness to such?
Peace
P.S. I hope you didn't misunderstood me as being 'aggressive'. I am simply displaying the truth from the Quran. Also, Obeying the teachings of messengers refer to ALIVE messengers
Such is GOD, your rightful Lord. What is there after the truth, except falsehood? How could you disregard all this?
Here you are arguing on their behalf in this world; who is going to argue with GOD on their behalf on the Day of Resurrection? Who is going to be their advocate?
God bless
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peace ik
Don't worry bro, i didn't find it that aggressive for me but any sunni will.
Bro following the messenger is an order, it's mentioned in one ayah that i forgot the number.
This is not the issue, it's about uncertain ahadiths, and the fact that the prophet left only one thing
which is the coran, Ahadiths were gathered and written by men. Yes, i say they shouldn't follow these ahadiths,
but not as some say, not to follow the prophet. All what the prophet says shall be obeyed.
If u ever be sure of one "hadith" of jesus and moses, u shall obey, they r called messengers bro = deliver the message
of GOD, do u think they will order the people to do anything against GOD's will.
But of course, u won't find a certain one, as in islam. So after all, coran is our reference.
And the main point was not to start with the "takfir" thing,When the hypocrites come to you they say, "We bear witness that you are the messenger of GOD."
i think u can't use this one for today's muslims, i think it's about those who entered islam at the time of the prophet
without faith only to save their lives. it's clear when it says "..come to you..". -
peace salam
" i think u can't use this one for today's muslims, i think it's about those who entered islam at the time of the prophet
without faith only to save their lives. it's clear when it says "..come to you..". "But you missed the VERY important last part of the verse. "God knows that you are his messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars." Another words, if you are saying that in your prayers, aren't you telling God what he knows already? I just don't see the point. The problem is not with the messengers bro, the problem is w/ the people who delivered their messages. You are right messengers are to be obeyed unquestioned since they only deliver revelations from God. The bible is Jesus' hadith, and Moses' hadith exists in the exact same form as Muhammad, I am just saying okay if you believe in hadith of Muhammad, you must also OBEY both Moses' and Jesus' hadith as well, otherwise that's very contradictory. And you are only picking and choosing what you want (not speaking to any person, but generally). I just believe that God wouldn't leave it up to such guesswork.
Following the messenger is not an order. I believe you are thnking of this verse. It's more of great advice
3321 Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.
But you are forgetting this verse as well
604 There has been a good example set for you by Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people "We are innocent from you and what you serve besides God. We have rejected you, and it appears that there shall be animosity and hatred between us and you until you believe in God alone." Except for the saying of Abraham to his father "I will ask forgiveness for you, but I do not possess any power to protect you from God." "Our Lord, we have put our trust in You, and we turn to You, and to You is the final destiny."
Now where is Abraham mentioned a lot in Where is his example? In the Quran. Where is Muhammad's? In the Quran, without any contradiction. With no guesswork involved.
6112 We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and Jinn devils, to inspire in each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
