Are we enjoined to do sabbath ?
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Salam JM,
I wanted to add that verse 7163 clearly states "kathalikanabloohum bima kanoo yafsuqoona" (literally thus we try them for what they yaffsuqoon/become wicked) so if sabath was not commanded, I don't know what would be the meaning of trial or test for them on that day in this verse. Why would they be tested if it was not part of the covenant in verse 4154 in which is clearly stated "la taAAdoo fee alssabti" (literally do not transgress in the sabath). People cursed in 447 are nothing else than the ones who transgressed it. As'hab al-sabti (the people/compagnons of the sabath) are those on which the sabath was ordered. The "ja3al'na" is the same verb used in the Quiblah change. There is no sense to talk about breaking the sabath if it was not ordered. And there is no sense to talk about test and trial with sabath as it came in the verses, if sabath was not ordered.
Go word by word and in Arabic verses to understand that sabath was not commanded to "curse" people but to test them as other commands came to them. Be careful with any translations, including the free-minds.
Peace. Myr.Salam JM,
Yes I believe the sabbath (or al-sabti) should be observed. Below are all the verses in Quran that mentions the sabbath. My understanding from these verses that the issue of sabbath decree is similar to the Qibla change decree, that is, it was commanded to distinguish those who will observe it from those who will rebel But I have to stress here that I totally reject the traditional judeo-christain explanation as to why the sabbath was decreed. Quran clearly refutes it in verses 4633 and 5015.
I try not to work on the sabbath unless it is an emergency.
And God the All-Mighty knows best. Peace. Myr.Walaqad AAalimtumu allatheenaiAAtadaw minkum fee alssabti faqulna lahum koonooqiradatan khasi-eena
And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath We said to them "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."
2.
Ya ayyuha allatheenaootoo alkitaba aminoo bima nazzalnamusaddiqan lima maAAakum min qabli an natmisawujoohan fanaruddaha AAala adbarihaaw nalAAanahum kama laAAanna as-habaalssabti wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
O ye People of the Book! believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah Must be carried out.
3.
WarafaAAna fawqahumu alttoorabimeethaqihim waqulna lahumu odkhuloo albabasujjadan waqulna lahum la taAAdoo fee alssabtiwaakhathna minhum meethaqan ghaleethan
And for their covenant we raised over them (the towering height) of Mount (Sinai); and (on another occasion) we said "Enter the gate with humility"; and (once again) we commanded them "Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath." And we took from them a solemn covenant.
4.
Wais-alhum AAani alqaryati allatee kanathadirata albahri ith yaAAdoona fee alssabtiith ta/teehim heetanuhum yawma sabtihimshurraAAan wayawma la yasbitoona la ta/teehim kathalikanabloohum bima kanoo yafsuqoona
Ask them concerning the town standing close by the sea. Behold! they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. For on the day of their Sabbath their fish did come to them, openly holding up their heads, but on the day they had no Sabbath, they came not thus did We make a trial of them, for they were given to transgression.
5.
Innama juAAila alssabtu AAalaallatheena ikhtalafoo feehi wa-inna rabbaka layahkumubaynahum yawma alqiyamati feema kanoo feehiyakhtalifoona
The Sabbath was only made (strict) for those who disagreed (as to its observance); But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment, as to their differences.He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it."
So, our system is the same as the one of the people of Moses.
And We raised the mount to be above because of the covenant they took, and We said to them "Enter the passage by prostrating." And We said to them "Do not transgress the Sabbath;" and We took from them a solemn covenant.
Does it imply we shoud make the sabbath ?
The Sabbath was only decreed for those who disputed in it, and your Lord will judge between them for that which they disputed in.
What does this verse mean ?
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peace
just looking for information
O you who received the scripture, you shall believe in what we reveal herein, confirming what you have, before we banish certain faces to exile, or condemn them as we condemned those who desecrated the Sabbath. GOD's command is done.
Remind them of the community by the sea, who desecrated the Sabbath. When they observed the Sabbath, the fish came to them abundantly. And when they violated the Sabbath, the fish did not come. We thus afflicted them, as a consequence of their transgression.
what does observing the sabbath mean exactly? (what is it exactly)
and what does not observing it mean?
Thank you
God Bless
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Peace all,
Thank brothers Kyle and Arnold for your kind comments and for appreciating the amazing logic of the passages.
O you who received the scripture, you shall believe in what we reveal herein, confirming what you have, before we banish certain faces to exile, or condemn them as we condemned those who desecrated the Sabbath. GOD's command is done.
This is a corrupted translation that has been twisted perhaps to justify the Jewish claim that The God decreed a day of rest. The word "desecrated" doesn't occur in the passage at all. The exact word is "as7ab"/ which literally means "companions/owners". So those who are cursed are those who are companions/owners of the day of rest (i.e., those who observe it) NOT those who "desecrated" it! This corrupt translation has twisted the meaning around and made it the exact opposite of what the passage is actually saying.
Remind them of the community by the sea, who desecrated the Sabbath. When they observed the Sabbath, the fish came to them abundantly. And when they violated the Sabbath, the fish did not come. We thus afflicted them, as a consequence of their transgression.
what does observing the sabbath mean exactly? (what is it exactly)
and what does not observing it mean?Again, the word "desecrated" doesn't occur at all in the passage. A better translation is as follows
- Ask them concerning the town present by the sea when they transgressed in the matter of the day of rest. When on the day they are resting, their fish come to them openly near the shore and on the day that they are not resting, they came not. Thus We made a trial of them because of what they were transgressing.
Here are the points that can be easily seen from 7163
- Those people were ACTUALLY observing the day of rest and on that day where they actually rested (for example, Saturday in the case of Jews) the fish would come to them.
- On the other days where they didn't rest (the other days of the week), the fish wouldn't come.
- (1) and (2) was how THEY WERE PUNISHED. So clearly they were punished by not getting any fish. This is the only punishment possible in the passage. The only way that this punishment would occur is if they actually OBSERVED the day of rest. In fact, had they "desecrated" the day of rest then they would get all the fish and that would be a good thing for them NOT punishment.
- We are told that this punishment is a result of what they were transgressing. Now notice here the perfect tense to denote something that they actually did. The only thing that they did in the passage is that they rested on a certain day.
- Given the above, there can be only one possibility, which is that the transgression in the day of rest is in the observing of the day of rest.
So what it is that makes it a transgression? In Arabic, the person who acts the verb of "ya3doo" or the action of "3idwan" is called "3adow". This word "3adow" is used in 6112 to describe those who invent lies. So the transgression is in inventing the lie that The God ordered us to rest on a certain arbitrary day of the arbitrary man-made week. So you can rest and take any day or two off but don't say that this is decreed by The God!
- 16/124 as-sabt was 'placed' for those who differed in it.
The only way that people will not differ on a day of rest is if they didn't take it as a "Holy-day". So for me, I couldn't care less if suddenly the government changes the weekend so that it is now Monday and Tuesday. However, in Muslim countries, sectarians will riot in support of Friday and in Christian countries, Trinitarians will boycott this government and stage sit-ins and demonstrations and in Israel, the government would fall the next day. In fact, it is so important to Christians that when the calendar was changed from the Julian to the Gregorian, ten days were taken out but the days of the week were kept in sequence because they thought that this way their "Holy-day" wouldn't get messed up.
- 7/163 The township 'i'tada' / transgressed in the matter of as-sabt, when yaumu-sabt was going on, the fish came to them but when they 'laa yasbitoon' (didn't continously sabt), the fish didn't come to them in the same way (kadhalika). Is this correct?
It is not "when yaumu-sabt was going on" it is "when on the day they are resting". This is a big difference. In your statement they are passive and in the actual statement from the great reading they are actually doing the action of resting. It is a big difference because this indisputably shows that they were actually OBSERVING the day of rest and NOT "desecrating" it as the corrupt translations claim. So this is their transgression that they were being punished for. In fact, they should have "desecrated" this man-made day of rest and in this case they would not have been punished and they would have got all the fish.
Peace,
Ayman
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peace
thanks ayman
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The only way that people will not differ on a day of rest is if they didn't take it as a "Holy-day". So for me, I couldn't care less if suddenly the government changes the weekend so that it is now Monday and Tuesday. However, in Muslim countries, sectarians will riot in support of Friday and in Christian countries, Trinitarians will boycott this government and stage sit-ins and demonstrations and in Israel, the government would fall the next day. In fact, it is so important to Christians that when the calendar was changed from the Julian to the Gregorian, ten days were taken out but the days of the week were kept in sequence because they thought that this way their "Holy-day" wouldn't get messed up.
Ok. Thanks for taking the time to answer me.
It is not "when yaumu-sabt was going on" it is "when on the day they are resting". This is a big difference. In your statement they are passive and in the actual statement from the great reading they are actually doing the action of resting. It is a big difference because this indisputably shows that they were actually OBSERVING the day of rest and NOT "desecrating" it as the corrupt translations claim. So this is their transgression that they were being punished for. In fact, they should have "desecrated" this man-made day of rest and in this case they would not have been punished and they would have got all the fish.
I don't know how you say they were observing the day when the ayat says 'laa yasbituun' in the case there was no fish for them. Yaumus-Sabt is the opposite the opposite of 'laa yasbitoon', surely?
Allow me to translate in breakdown
1)Wa As'alhumAni Al-Qaryati And ask them about the township 2)Allat Knat irata Al-Bari which was close to the sea 3)'Idh Yadna F As-Sabti When they transgressed in the matter of as-sabt.
4)'Idh Ta'thim tnuhum Yawma Sabtihim Shurra`an When came to them their fish on their yaumus sabt openly
5)Wa Yawma L Yasbitna L Ta'thim and the day they do not 'sabt', it didn't come to them.
6)Kadhlika Nablhum Bim Kn Yafsuqna thus we try them because of their fisq.So it seems to me that part 3 is explained by part 5. I.e, they transgressed in the matter of as-sabt BECAUSE they didn't 'sabt' and that's why the fish didn't come to them. I'd apprecite your response.
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Peace Ayman
Excellent analysis.
The Jews said God created everything in six days and rested on the seventh day. Was Sabbath to commemorate this day of rest? In that case it is transgression indeed.
The Quraan answers this,
50 38 We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.
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Peace MQ,
I don't know how you say they were observing the day when the ayat says 'laa yasbituun' in the case there was no fish for them. Yaumus-Sabt is the opposite the opposite of 'laa yasbitoon', surely?
Allow me to translate in breakdown
1)Wa As'alhumAni Al-Qaryati And ask them about the township 2)Allat Knat irata Al-Bari which was close to the sea 3)'Idh Yadna F As-Sabti When they transgressed in the matter of as-sabt.
4)'Idh Ta'thim tnuhum Yawma Sabtihim Shurra`an When came to them their fish on their yaumus sabt openly
5)Wa Yawma L Yasbitna L Ta'thim and the day they do not 'sabt', it didn't come to them.
6)Kadhlika Nablhum Bim Kn Yafsuqna thus we try them because of their fisq.
So it seems to me that part 3 is explained by part 5. I.e, they transgressed in the matter of as-sabt BECAUSE they didn't 'sabt' and that's why the fish didn't come to them. I'd apprecite your response.I think that you will be able to understand the passage once you understand what "sabt" means. What would help is a real word for word translation. Unfortunately, the translation that you provided leaves all the key words untranslated so it is not a word by word translation. If you understand those key words and thus are able to translate them then hopefully you will clearly understand the passage.
I have made a few corrections to your partial translation that may help you make an actual word for word translation
3)When they transgressed in the matter of the rest.
4)When their fish are coming to them the day of their resting openly.
5)and the day they are not resting, they don't come to them.
6)thus We try them with what they were deviating/transgressing.Here are the facts from the passage
- Those people transgressed in the matter of the rest.
- On the day of their resting (for example, Saturday in the case of Jews) their fish came to them. Of course, they were resting so they didn't catch the fish despite the fish being apparent and close to the shore. Result no fish.
- On the day they are not resting (for example, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday in the case of Jews), the fish don't come. Result no fish.
- The punishment/trial is that they never got any fish despite fully knowing that there is fish out there (they see it on the day they are resting). Notice that the passage literally says "We try/punish them with what they were deviating/transgressing". Indeed, as we can see The God used their own transgression to try/punish them. It is their transgression that is keeping them from getting any fish. They could easily get the fish if they didn't observe the day of resting and instead break the resting and catch the fish when they see it near the shore.
I hope this clarifies things.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace All
Peace Myr , hint well taken.
Although this verse in isolation seems to be more favorable to Aymans explanation, it will really help if someone can kindly translate ( word to word) the few other Sabbath related verses .
Also the trial in the verse can mean that to test them (whether they are breaking the Sabbath) the fish was only coming during Sabbath and not on other days. And if God tested them this way, but still they continued to observe the Sabbath patiently and implore God, He would have ceased the test if He willed. But instead , since the fish was coming only during the Sabbath and they transgressed the Sabbath because of fear of loss of income or greed then they have failed the test.
Ayman in the first explanation said ?no fish if you rest? is the only punishment mentioned in the verse. Does the verse say this was a test or a punishment? I guess that can be important.
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Peace be upon you,
If the trial is testing them to see if they will break thier "stopping", what kind of reward is it that you starve following the God's "command"?
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Salam mquran, all
Thank you for doing what I could not do yesterday because of lack of time, that is, translating word by word. It would be good to have also a word by word translation of all the other verses, at least members will see how God the All-Mighty clearly explains the verse and in a simple way and not this upside-down logic or sense of making a day of rest that people be cursed because they did observe it!!!!! Plus, the meaning of "ja3al'na" (we made) is clear too, see verses 2125, 2143, 433, 491, 548, 6112, 6123, 727 and many many others, they all show a meaning of to appoint/establish/to take place/to occur/command/order/put. I have never seen a manipulation of words meaning like in this forum to force what is called "logic" -).
Good luck dear-) just be prepared for another "excellent analysis"-)-). Peace.Myr.I don't know how you say they were observing the day when the ayat says 'laa yasbituun' in the case there was no fish for them. Yaumus-Sabt is the opposite the opposite of 'laa yasbitoon', surely?
Allow me to translate in breakdown
1)Wa As'alhumAni Al-Qaryati And ask them about the township 2)Allat Knat irata Al-Bari which was close to the sea 3)'Idh Yadna F As-Sabti When they transgressed in the matter of as-sabt.
4)'Idh Ta'thim tnuhum Yawma Sabtihim Shurra`an When came to them their fish on their yaumus sabt openly
5)Wa Yawma L Yasbitna L Ta'thim and the day they do not 'sabt', it didn't come to them.
6)Kadhlika Nablhum Bim Kn Yafsuqna thus we try them because of their fisq.So it seems to me that part 3 is explained by part 5. I.e, they transgressed in the matter of as-sabt BECAUSE they didn't 'sabt' and that's why the fish didn't come to them. I'd apprecite your response.
Peace sister
it is crystal clear that the cursed ones were the jews who violated the sabath not the ones who honestely observed it, you can clearly read in arabic that some of them violated the sabath and Allah cursed them into monkeys, therefore to suggest that the ones who were cursed are the ones who observed it is very laughable indeed because it makes no sense, but what we can do sister?, well I can only laugh, how about you laugh with me dear sister?
cheers
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Peace be upon you all,
I think there are people here (on this forum) whose sole purpose is to cause disruption due to the Wisdom that is being communicated. I hope we all will remain dedicate to study and remain at peace in our discussions and these people will have no effect. I will not name any names.
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MyrThank you for doing what I could not do yesterday because of lack of time, that is, translating word by word. It would be good to have also a word by word translation of all the other verses, at least members will see how God the All-Mighty clearly explains the verse and in a simple way and not this upside-down logic or sense of making a day of rest that people be cursed because they did observe it!!!!! Plus, the meaning of "ja3al'na" (we made) is clear too, see verses 2125, 2143, 433, 491, 548, 6112, 6123, 727 and many many others, they all show a meaning of to appoint/establish/to take place/to occur/command/order/put. I have never seen a manipulation of words meaning like in this forum to force what is called "logic" -).
Good luck dear-) just be prepared for another "excellent analysis"-)-).Well, one thing is clear to me, that the fish didn't come to them when they 'laa yasbitoon' and 'laa yasbitoon' is used opposite of 'yaumissabt', indicating that it's an activity as opposed to a 'day' as such. I will respond further to Ayman, below, inshaa Allah..
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Ayman3)When they transgressed in the matter of the rest.
4)When their fish are coming to them the day of their resting openly.
5)and the day they are not resting, they don't come to them.
6)thus We try them with what they were deviating/transgressing.Here are the facts from the passage
- Those people transgressed in the matter of the rest.
- On the day of their resting (for example, Saturday in the case of Jews) their fish came to them. Of course, they were resting so they didn't catch the fish despite the fish being apparent and close to the shore. Result no fish.
- On the day they are not resting (for example, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday in the case of Jews), the fish don't come. Result no fish.
- The punishment/trial is that they never got any fish despite fully knowing that there is fish out there (they see it on the day they are resting). Notice that the passage literally says "We try/punish them with what they were deviating/transgressing". Indeed, as we can see The God used their own transgression to try/punish them. It is their transgression that is keeping them from getting any fish. They could easily get the fish if they didn't observe the day of resting and instead break the resting and catch the fish when they see it near the shore.
Your interpretation works on the basis of a few (of what are to still to me) assumptions
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That as-sabt refers to the traditional jewish sabbath and means 'rest'
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That in 7/163, indha ta'tiihim hitanuhum means 'the fish came close to them, there is fish out there,' as you put it.
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I have not researched the etymology of as-sabt but I cannot accept the 'israiliyyat' interpretations because I do not believe in a historical AQ. AQ to me is a living book and thus the condition of as-sabt is potentially replicable now by Bani Israil whom I consider to be al-muslimoon of all time.
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You have seperated 'the fish came to them' and 'they caught the fish'. Well, in the word 'ta'tiihim' which is the word 'itaa' (as in aa'tuz zakaat, im sure you know), the indication of them getting the fish is already there. So when I read 'idha ta'tihim hitanuhum' , I take it to mean, they get the fish. No seperation between 'coming close' and 'catching'. This is read into the verse, im sorry to say. If the word was 'ja'aahum', then yes, you would be right.
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Peace MQ,
Your interpretation works on the basis of a few (of what are to still to me) assumptions
- That as-sabt refers to the traditional jewish sabbath and means 'rest'
This is your assumption. Please read carefully my previous posts. I clearly said in previous posts that it means "the resting" and it can be any day that people claim The God asked us to rest on. It doesn't matter if it is Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Eid, Christmas, XYZ or any other day of the week or the year. I gave what the Jews do only as an example.
As for the word "sabt" meaning "rest" this has nothing to do with Jews, just look it up in a dictionary and in the great reading. The word is used in the great reading in conjunction with sleep (2547) and one can see from the context that it means rest and again this has nothing to do with Jews so please stop being paranoid about Jews.
- That in 7/163, indha ta'tiihim hitanuhum means 'the fish came close to them, there is fish out there,' as you put it.
So what are you saying? That the fish jumped in their lap while they were resting on their sofa or their bed? Think about it. Your interpretation makes the passage illogical. I know that The God's words are not illogical so it must be your interpretation that is wrong.
- I have not researched the etymology of as-sabt but I cannot accept the 'israiliyyat' interpretations because I do not believe in a historical AQ. AQ to me is a living book and thus the condition of as-sabt is potentially replicable now by Bani Israil whom I consider to be al-muslimoon of all time.
Again, please stop being paranoid about 'israiliyyat' and all this traditional Jewish stuff that you assume. The context from the great reading confirms that the the word "sabt" means "rest". It would have probably taken you less than 2 minutes to go on Burhan's web site and verify all the occurrences of the word and confirm what I am saying. So at least make this small effort before assuming that I am part of some sinister 'israiliyyat' conspiracy. >
- You have seperated 'the fish came to them' and 'they caught the fish'. Well, in the word 'ta'tiihim' which is the word 'itaa' (as in aa'tuz zakaat, im sure you know), the indication of them getting the fish is already there. So when I read 'idha ta'tihim hitanuhum' , I take it to mean, they get the fish. No seperation between 'coming close' and 'catching'. This is read into the verse, im sorry to say. If the word was 'ja'aahum', then yes, you would be right.
The word "ta'atihim" can also mean come to them. This can mean come close by or fall in their lap. It doesn't necessarily just mean fall in their lap as you imply. Indeed, if they made an effort instead of resting they would have caught the fish. How did they get the fish when they were resting? Again, it is unlikely that the fish jumped in their lap. The meaning is also clarified by the opposite "la ta'tihim" in the next part. NO FISHERMAN no matter how hard he works gets fish to fall in his lap so your interpretation implies that there is nothing amazing and certainly no punishment in the "la ta'tihim" in the next passage.
Also, where is the punishment here and what is the lesson learned? Is the lesson that when you are resting fish fall in your lap and when you don't rest and work hard you don't get fish to fall in your lap? I don't think that rewarding laziness is the message here. The God said that He CURSED the COMPANIONS/OWNERS of the resting. Certainly the COMPANIONS/OWNERS are those who OBSERVE it NOT those who don't. The Jews INVENTED the day of rest and it is a lie against The God. This is the transgression NOT violating some arbitrary manmade day of rest on the completely arbitrary manmade week. It is no wonder that you ignore to translate the word "sabt", which is the key to understanding the whole passage. In order for your interpretation to work, we must ignore the fact that "sabt" means rest and we must assume that fish fall in the lap of people and that The God rewards laziness.
Think about it carefully and please research the etymology of "as-sabt" and provide the meaning you think is best. I hope that once you do this, you will see where I am coming from and then you can help everyone who is focused on the truth reach a better understanding.
Peace,
Ayman
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This is your assumption. Please read carefully my previous posts. I clearly said in previous posts that it means "the resting" and it can be any day that people claim The God asked us to rest on. It doesn't matter if it is Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Eid, Christmas, XYZ or any other day of the week or the year. I gave what the Jews do only as an example
Agreed. My mistake and apologies.
As for the word "sabt" meaning "rest" this has nothing to do with Jews, just look it up in a dictionary and in the great reading. The word is used in the great reading in conjunction with sleep (2547) and one can see from the context that it means rest and again this has nothing to do with Jews so please stop being paranoid about Jews.
It was my mistake but I reject your 'paranoia' accusation. Many Quranic concepts have been coloured by Jewish influence and so to be on one's guard is hardly being paranoid.
So what are you saying? That the fish jumped in their lap while they were resting on their sofa or their bed? Think about it. Your interpretation makes the passage illogical. I know that The God's words are not illogical so it must be your interpretation that is wrong.
What I'm saying is the fish was made available to them when they 'yasbitoon'. Catching the fish isn't part of this ayat.
So at least make this small effort before assuming that I am part of some sinister 'israiliyyat' conspiracy
.And you accuse me of paranoia D
We may differ in methods and conclusions but I've always respected your work.
The word "ta'atihim" can also mean come to them. This can mean come close by or fall in their lap. It doesn't necessarily just mean fall in their lap as you imply. Indeed, if they made an effort instead of resting they would have caught the fish. How did they get the fish when they were resting? Again, it is unlikely that the fish jumped in their lap. The meaning is also clarified by the opposite "la ta'tihim" in the next part. NO FISHERMAN no matter how hard he works gets fish to fall in his lap so your interpretation implies that there is nothing amazing and certainly no punishment in the "la ta'tihim" in the next passage.
I'm sorry but I do not accept 'come to them' because to me, AQ uses a particular word specifically and ita'aa as used in context like 'atuu bisuratin min mithlih' tells me the function of the word.
Also, where is the punishment here and what is the lesson learned? Is the lesson that when you are resting fish fall in your lap and when you don't rest and work hard you don't get fish to fall in your lap? I don't think that rewarding laziness is the message here. The God said that He CURSED the COMPANIONS/OWNERS of the resting. Certainly the COMPANIONS/OWNERS are those who OBSERVE it NOT those who don't. The Jews INVENTED the day of rest and it is a lie against The God. This is the transgression NOT violating some arbitrary manmade day of rest on the completely arbitrary manmade week. It is no wonder that you ignore to translate the word "sabt", which is the key to understanding the whole passage. In order for your interpretation to work, we must ignore the fact that "sabt" means rest and we must assume that fish fall in the lap of people and that The God rewards laziness.
Tell me, when you sleep at night, is it because you're being lazy? Many thanks for pointing that out, by the way. I will need to understand what goes on when we sleep and reapply it back. If the fish isn't 'itaa' to them while they 'laa yasbitoon' , then it is a state replicable to the one during sleep which produces this.
Think about it carefully and please research the etymology of "as-sabt" and provide the meaning you think is best. I hope that once you do this, you will see where I am coming from and then you can help everyone who is focused on the truth reach a better understanding.
Thanks. I feel I'm on to something as it is.
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Damn!
just when i was thinking of having a day of rest everyweek )
But thanks to Br.ayman - wonderful logic.
bravo
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Peace MQ,
What I'm saying is the fish was made available to them when they 'yasbitoon'. Catching the fish isn't part of this ayat.
As you are now saying "it was made available" as opposed to it "falling in their lap" as you originally implied. This is exactly the problem. How would they catch this "available fish" when they are resting? They can't. So result is NO FISH. So the punishment is that either way they don't get fish. I am sure that you can figure that out.
And you accuse me of paranoia D
We may differ in methods and conclusions but I've always respected your work.As you said, it is good to be careful and validate every interpretation and test it and I totally agree with this and respect it. The problem is that we need to apply this to our own interpretations first. For your interpretation to work one has to ignore that "sabt" mean rest and the fish has to fall into their laps, otherwise they wouldn't get any fish in BOTH THE CASES PRESENTED. There is no way around this. Also, you don't tell us what this day of rest is. You just claim that it was decreed by The God. So what is that day and how are those people supposed to follow The God's decree? Should they look in the Bible for it instead?
I'm sorry but I do not accept 'come to them' because to me, AQ uses a particular word specifically and ita'aa as used in context like 'atuu bisuratin min mithlih' tells me the function of the word.
MQ, tell me exactly what you think "ta'tihum" and "sabt" mean in English please.
Tell me, when you sleep at night, is it because you're being lazy? Many thanks for pointing that out, by the way. I will need to understand what goes on when we sleep and reapply it back. If the fish isn't 'itaa' to them while they 'laa yasbitoon' , then it is a state replicable to the one during sleep which produces this.
As I said before there is nothing wrong with having normal rest. The only problem is when people lie and say that The God ordered them to rest on certain days. The problem is not because of resting. It is because of lying. Now if a fisherman sleeps all day and finds all the fish ready waiting for him at the dinner table when he wakes up and when he doesn't sleep all day and works very hard he doesn't get anything then this is CERTAINLY REWARDING LAZINESS. From that point on, he will figure out that it is best to rest and not work every day. This is certainly not the message of the great reading. So this interpretation of yours can't be correct.
Thanks. I feel I'm on to something as it is.
Please have patience and make sure that you understand every single word in the passage well enough to translate it accurately. Meanwhile, I look forward to coming together to an agreement when you complete your study.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace brother,
just when i was thinking of having a day of rest everyweek )
But thanks to Br.ayman - wonderful logic.You can rest on any day you want but don't claim that it was decreed by The God. If it was up to me, I would work on Saturday and Sunday and take any other two days of the week off. This way I can avoid the rush-hour traffic jams for two of my work days. Similarly when I was in Egypt I liked to work on Sunday, Saturday and Firday when traffic was light during the day. I also like to work on Christmas and take other days off instead, especially if I am travelling on vacation. This allows me to get cheap airline tickets and avoid the Christmas airport congestions. ;D
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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peace
You can rest on any day you want but don't claim that it was decreed by The God.
I agree. If you follow al quran, that cannot be argued.
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Peace All
Did Abraham observe Sabbath?
When was it decreed?
Was it only for the People of the book or for the Children of the Israel or for All?
Was it decreed on the day when the mount was raised and God took a covenant from the Children of Israel?
Since the command ( on the day the covenant was taken) was not to transgress the Sabbath was Sabbath decreed before the covenant was taken?