Is following a book that one thinks is from God idolatry?

Navid

Peace

Salaams all,

when we stone people to death, cut their limbs,kill people for changing their faith,marry women to the quran,allow shorthold agreement in marriege and all the rest because of the book - in such cases IS IT IDOLATRY??

There are people doing all these according to how they have understood it.

Idolatory plain and simple.

Salaams.

I think we can safely say that those things are hugely influenced by hadith.

And my original point was that following a book you think is from God is not idolatry.

Idolatry is putting people/things beside God
We believe the Qur'an is from God aka God's words.
If we follow the Qur'an, we are 100% following God (because of our belief mentioned in premise 2)
Therefore, we are not idolizing the Qur'an, since the Qur'an is from God.

Let's replace "Qur'an" with "God's words" as I stated before. So far, this is perfectly logical, because again, we believe it to be from God. Their (not naming names) claim is "You idolize God's words (Qur'an)." This is completely contradictory.

I hope people who say these things will realize that no matter how much we study and read and discuss the Qur'an, it will never be idolatry, as I pointed out. This is not my opinion. This is just mere objectivity.

Peace

unknownuser

when we stone people to death, cut their limbs,kill people for changing their faith,marry women to the quran,allow shorthold agreement in marriege and all the rest because of the book

I believe you are confusing Quran with Hadith

unknownuser

Hey Br's

don't you reckon they follow the hadith because they think they should according to their understandings of the quran?

almost the entire present muslims!

God Bless all.

unknownuser

Peace Simple

I would say they mold the quran according to their understanding of hadith and not the other way around. They believe the quran is vague and not understandable, so we need an appendix to decipher it, i.e. the hadith. Whatever the hadith claims, they'll find some aya to distort beyond recognition to fit it.

So in my opinion, they're idolizing bukhari and co. and not quran in any way, shape, or form since none of those 'laws' you mentioned are derived from quran - but rather hadith.

Peace

Navid

Peace simple

Hey Br's

don't you reckon they follow the hadith because they think they should according to their understandings of the quran?

almost the entire present muslims!

God Bless all.

Firstly, I'd like to point out that when extremists try to manipulate verses to fit their desired interpretations, that doesn't make the Qur'an wrong, it makes them wrong.

Secondly, there's a huge difference between what we are saying and what you are saying. Let's take stoning people for example. Saying "stoning people as a result of one's understanding of the Qur'an is bad" is different than saying "stoning people as a result of the hadith which are caused by one's understanding of the Qur'an." The direct cause of the stoning is the hadith, not the Qur'an. Sure, the Qur'an, in essence, plays some role. But it's not the direct cause. In situations like this, it has to be the direct cause, or else it holds no fault. We can't blame the Qur'an for something the hadith says (which sometimes goes against the Qur'an) to do.

Peace.

Navid

Peace Simple

I would say they mold the quran according to their understanding of hadith and not the other way around. They believe the quran is vague and not understandable, so we need an appendix to decipher it, i.e. the hadith. Whatever the hadith claims, they'll find some aya to distort beyond recognition to fit it.

So in my opinion, they're idolizing bukhari and co. and not quran in any way, shape, or form since none of those 'laws' you mentioned are derived from quran - but rather hadith.

Peace

That's a very good point, and I completely agree.

Peace

unknownuser

Salaams Br's,

well to be honest-which we try to be here , we cannot disregard what they say simply because we think so .
They say the quran is saying "do what allah says and what the prophet says" , and i believe that is their belief irrespective whether its faulty or not.And i think that is ,as you agree, idolatory isn't it as its leading to manmade laws in the hadith's and whatever?

And that is being based on their understandings or what they are being taught , and they arn't just a handfull there are billions of them.

God Bless.

Navid

Salaams Br's,

well to be honest-which we try to be here , we cannot disregard what they say simply because we think so .
They say the quran is saying "do what allah says and what the prophet says" , and i believe that is their belief irrespective whether its faulty or not.And i think that is ,as you agree, idolatory isn't it as its leading to manmade laws in the hadith's and whatever?

And that is being based on their understandings or what they are being taught , and they arn't just a handfull there are billions of them.

God Bless.

Oh, I didn't completely understand what you were saying. Of course, I totally agree with you.

Peace

phoenix1

And my original point was that following a book you think is from God is not idolatry.

Idolatry is putting people/things beside God
We believe the Qur'an is from God aka God's words.
If we follow the Qur'an, we are 100% following God (because of our belief mentioned in premise 2)
Therefore, we are not idolizing the Qur'an, since the Qur'an is from God.

peace OpenMind,

that is not logical at all.
Your following of the quran is coming from the belief that the quran is God's words.
Whether the quran is your idol or not depends on what your "belief" is based on. Whether it is blind belief or based on reason.

unknownuser

Peace Phoenix,

Sorry for answering while you were addressing OpenMind but I'd like to ask you a question. You're implying that OpenMind is coming from blind faith because he/she believes that it is God's Words. Your alternative is to believe with 'reason'. What reason do you have to believe it is not God's Words? I think that is the crux of the matter. If you truly believe that the quran is not God's Words, then you would conclude that it is idolatry to follow the laws set forth in the quran. And if you don't believe the quran is the truth then how do you follow any of God's Laws?

Peace all

Navid

And my original point was that following a book you think is from God is not idolatry.

Idolatry is putting people/things beside God
We believe the Qur'an is from God aka God's words.
If we follow the Qur'an, we are 100% following God (because of our belief mentioned in premise 2)
Therefore, we are not idolizing the Qur'an, since the Qur'an is from God.

peace OpenMind,

that is not logical at all.

It's 100% logical.

Your following of the quran is coming from the belief that the quran is God's words.

My following of the Qur'an is coming from the miraculous evidence, consistency, and great appeal to my logic within the Qur'an which leads me to the belief that is God's words.

Whether the quran is your idol or not depends on what your "belief" is based on. Whether it is blind belief or based on reason.

Following the Qur'an blindly is wrong, I completely agree. But I hope I made myself clear with my above statement. My belief in the Qur'an is greatly derived from reason. In fact, I sometimes feel guilty for not having enough "faith" in the Qur'an; that is how miraculous it is.

Peace

phoenix1

peace

My following of the Qur'an is coming from the miraculous evidence, consistency, and great appeal to my logic within the Qur'an which leads me to the belief that is God's words.

If you had added that to it then it would be 100% logical.
It's blind faith, not faith, that i have a problem with. And don't have "faith" in the Quran, have "faith" in its message.
peace

Navid

Peace

If you had added that to it then it would be 100% logical.

The argument is still fully logical without that. The above is just how we come to premise 2, it's not required.

It's blind faith, not faith, that i have a problem with.

Good to hear.

And don't have "faith" in the Quran, have "faith" in its message.
peace

Of course. Does the Qur'an have another facet, other than its message, that I'm not aware of?

Peace

unknownuser

peace

they also ignore the fact that Quran says that it is

Complete, Fully-detailed, Infallible, Perfect.

They also ignore the fact that

God does not run out of words

They also ignore the fact

That God is the teacher of the Quran. Not muhammad or his companions or the 'mullahs'

They also ignore the fact

That it says the exact same thing about Abraham that he is a great example to follow almost word for word.

I could do this all day.....