Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory
-
Peace,
Please note that in the course of reviewing
The Message,I have managed to re-write the Salat article in a better light of understanding.As such, this article represents my current views on the subject.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat.htm
-
Salaam all
the five times 2238; 4103; 11114; 1778; 2458
- The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr), given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha), given in 2458
Virtually every translation, except the one on this site, interperts the above verses as 5 prayers (or whatever name anyone wishes to give).
As there seems to be disagreement on whether all the above means 3 or 5, could we perhaps rely little bit on history (although I am usualy very sceptical on relying on history-I think as you may appreciate an exception might be ok in this case).
Was there not a man named Mohammed to whom the Quran was revealed and how did this man Mohammed interpert the above. My understanding (from history i am afraid) that Mohammed interperted the above as 5 prayers and hence all his followers understood this meant that the Quran (although for some there was never such a book -it is apparently called the message) meant 5 prayers. Now i could be completely wrong and Mohammed interperted the above as 3 and some deviant at some stage in Muslim history changed it to 5. Can someone please tell me exactly when this occured in during the last 1400 yr period.
If we accept that historically Mohammed prayed 5times daily then how is that God did not choose to correct him.
regards - The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114, 2458
-
Peace,
For one, in the earliest sources it is told they prayed 3, and only later on 5. See Ibn Ishaq and Tabari. And when and who did this, who changed it? The persians who wanted to take over the arabic empire as a revenge for the destruction of theirs. Most hadith rules comes form the persians, as well as the ritual prayer rules
Zoroastrian Namaz
Posted By Boom Solang
Date Saturday, 30 October 2004, at 312 p.m.
This is how a Sunni prays,
Ritual Prayer In Zoroastrianism
Master sequence of prayers
First, take a bath, or wash the hands and feet and face. With a cap or scarf on your head, and facing the sun or light, remove the Kusti from your waist. Then pray the Ashem, Yatha, Kemna Mazda, start tying Kusti, AhuraMazda Khodae, (finish tying Kusti), Mazdayasno ahmi, Sarosh Baj, Ahmai Raeshcha, Hazangrem, Jasemeavanghe Mazda, Kefreh Mazda, then the appropriate Geh, then the Farajyat (compulsary) prayers like Khorshed and Meher Nyaishes (only in the first three Gehs), Atash Niyaesh, Hormuzd Yasht, and then Ardibehest Yasht.
A detailed guideline for each Geh follows. Note that the most prayers are recommended in the first Geh, Havan, and this includes the Ardibehest Yasht. The Havan Geh is therefore the best time to pray this Yasht.
Havan Geh (Sunrise to 1240 PM)
Getting up before sunrise, pray the Hoshbam. When the sun rises, start the master sequence above. Continue with Khorshed, Meher Nyaishes, Vispa Humata, Atash Niyaesh, Hormuzd Yasht. If possible, also pray the Big Haptan Yasht, Ardibehest Yasht, Sarosh Yasht Hadokht and Vanant Yasht. Then the Doa Nam Sataishne, Char Dishano Namaskar, Duva Tandorosti, and Din-no-kalmo.
Rapithavan Geh (1240 to 340 PM)
Start the master sequence above. If possible, continue with Sarosh Baj, Rapithavan Geh, Khorshed, Meher, Atash Niyaeshes, Doa Nam Sataishne, Char Dishano Namaskar, Duva Tandorosti, and Din-no-kalmo.
Ujiren Geh (340 PM to sunset)
Start the master sequence above. If possible, continue with Sarosh Baj, Ujiren Geh, Khorshed, Meher, Ava Ardvisur and Atash Nyaishes, Doa Nam Sataishne, Sarosh Yasht Hadokht, Char Dishano Namaskar, Duva Tandorosti, and Din-no-kalmo.
Aiwisuthrem Geh (sunset to 1240 AM)
Start the master sequence above. IF POSSIBLE, continue with Sarosh Baj, Aiwisuthrem Geh, Cheragno Namaskar (homage to the lamps), Mah Bokhtar (homage to the moon), Atash Niyaesh, Sarosh Yasht Vadi, Doa Nam Sataishne, Duva Tandorosti, and Din-no-kalmo.
Ushahin Geh (1240 AM to Sunrise)
Start the master sequence above. IF HEALTH ALLOWS, continue with Sarosh Baj, Ushahin Geh, Atash Niyaesh, Doa Nam Sataishne, and if possible Hormuzd Yasht, Ardibehest Yasht, Sarosh Yasht Hadokht, Duva Tandorosti, and Din-no-kalmo.
Notes
Ava Yasht - if not possible daily, then pray on these days every month Asfandarmad, Ava, Din, Ashishvangh, Marespand.
Atash Niyaesh - if not possible daily, pray on these days Hormuz, Ardibehest, Ader, Sarosh, Behram roj.
From the first month of Farvardin to the month of Meher, the first roj Hormuz to the last roj Aneran of these months, pray the Rapithavan Geh in its time slot. But from the Month Ava to the Vahistohist Gatha day, ie. 5 months 5 days, pray the Havan Geh instead.
Also note that Khorshed and Meher Nyaishes are to be recited during the Havan, Rapithven and Uziren Geh only, Vispa Humata during Havan Geh only, Mah Bokhtar Niyaesh during Aiwisuthrem Geh, and during any Geh of the day. Nemaz-i-chehar-disa during Havan, Rapithven and Ujiren. Ardvisur Niyaesh during Havan, Rapithven and Ujiren. Sarosh Yasht Hadokht during Havan, Ujiren and Ushahin. Sarosh Yasht Vadi during Aiwisuthrem Geh only. Patet Pashamani and Stom Karta during any Geh.
Interessante informatie van een iraanse site gehaald
Dear all,
It would be appropriate if we can discuss the startling similarities between practices of Islam and Zoroastrianism.These parallels go beyond the normal ones of both being monotheistic faiths which have been revealed to mankind by charismatic leaders.I will endeavour to enumerate a few here- Requirements of prayers Islam enjoins its followers to pray 5 times a day and is called by the Muezzin to his prayers.These prayers are at a) Dawn b) Noon c) Afternoon d) Sunset e) NIght.
Zoroastrianism also enjoins prayers 5 times a day and are called "Geh".The devotee is summoned by the ringing of a bell in the AtashBehram / Agiary.These prayers are also at the same time as in Islam and their respective names are
Time Islamic Zoraastrianism
Dawn Fajar Havaan
Noon Zohar Rapithwan
Afternoon Assar Uziren
Evening Mazreem Aiwisuthrem
Nightime Ishaan Ushaen. - Pre-requisites of prayer On entering the mosque and prior to commencing prayers a Muslim has to cover his head and wash his face and limbs.Similarly a Zoroastrian one entering the Agiary will cover his head,wash his face and limbs, perform the Padyaab Kusti before commencing his prayers.
- The Prayers Prayers in Islam are in Arabic only,though translations/transliterations are available.The liturgy has to be conducted in Arabic only.In Zoroastrianism too,prayers have to be recited in Avesta or in Pazend only.Infact in Aveatan prayers Pazend portions have to be recited in an undertone so as no to break the seamless flow of Avestan Manthravani.
- Sanctum Sanctorum and its venerationThe holiest spot in a Mosque is the wall facing Mecca and is called the Kiblah.In the Atashbehram/Agiary the room where the Atash Padshah is enthroned is also called the Keblaah.
A Muslim will perform the Sijdaah in front of the Kiblah and so also will the Zoroastrian perform the Sezdaah before his Keblaah.Both involve kneeling down and touching the forehead to the ground. - A holy month In Islam Ramzan is the holy month in which all Muslims are required to fast in the day and only break their fast after sunset.In Zoroastrianism the month of Bahman has similiar connotations-wherein all are requested to particularly abstain from flesh.Perhaps in the age of the Sassanian dynasty the month of Bahman was observed as Ramzan is now.
- Ascent into heaven The hagiography of Islam assures us that Prophet Mohammed ascended to heaven from Jerusalem on the mythical beast Barak.He crossed the 7 spheres,exchanged greetings with the patriarchs and beheld the glory of God.
The Dinkard tells us that at the entreaties of Asho Zarthustra Bahman Ameshaspand transcendentally elevated his consciousness to the realm of heaven wherein Asho Zarthustra looked at the reflugent majesty of God.A similiar journey was attributed to the virtous Ardaviraf who visited hell,purgatory and heaven during his spiritual journey.Of course Ardaviraf couldnot look at God directly.
The above similarities are obvious,a more careful research would reveal more parallels.However even these points are to close to be dismissed as mere coincidences.This means Zoroastrianism has had an enormous impact on Islam,which is not acknowledged.Everyone agrees Islam owes a lot to Judaism and Christianity but I feel that the scholars of Islam borrowed very heavily from Iran and this can be perhaps attributed to that shadowy figure of Dastur Dinyar ( Salman Farsi).This debt is so impressive that it had to be consistently downgraded and later denied.Afterall if Islam is supposedly directly inspired by God it cannot be seen to be acknowledging any debt to an older faith,specially the faith of a nation which Islam has defeated.This may perhaps explain the ferocity of the persecuton Islam directed at Zoroastrianism-to do away with an embarassing history of its origin.
Chinvat Bridge
CHINVAT BRIDGE According to ancient Persian myth, when a person dies, the soul remains by the body for three days. On the fourth, it travels to Chinvat Bridge (the Bridge of the Separator, also call Al-Sirat), accompanied by gods of protection. The bridge is "finer than a hair and sharper than a sword" and spans a deep chasm teeming with monsters. On the other side of the bridge is the gateway to paradise.
DEMONS guard the foot of the bridge and argue with the gods over the soul's fate. The actions of the dead person, both good and bad, are weighed, and the soul is either allowed to cross or denied access to the bridge. Spirits whose evil outweighs their good fall into the demon-infested pit to face eternal torment. In this abyss of the damned, each soul is tortured by a GHOUL that represents its sins in life. Once fallen into the gulf, no soul can escape the horrors of hell through its own power.
Zoroaster, a sixth-century B.C. religious leader, had warned his followers of this obstacle to heaven but promised to lead his flock safely across. The ancient manuscript Gathas (Songs of Zoroaster) explains that the Bridge of the Separator "becomes narrow for the wicked," whereas the holy can easily pass unharmed. (In Gathas, the fair god Rashnu is named as the judge who helps determine who is worthy of salvation and who must be damned.) All infidels (nonbelievers) fall into hell, which the prophet says has been created especially for the "followers of the lie."
The legends are sketchy but assert that Chinvat Bridge is located somewhere in the far north. It is a place of filth where the damned endure physical tortures and spiritual agony. Souls who are unsuccessful in crossing the Chinvat Bridge suffer these torments until AHRIMAN, the evil god of ZOROASTRIANISM, is destroyed by the good god Orzmahd during the LAST JUDGMENT. As this time, lost spirits are restored to the truth since "the lie" as been eradicated, or they face final ANNIHILATION. (o)
Notice the similarity? So you guys are actually pagan stone and sun worshippers, correct?
Salaam BooM.
Who Contrived Namaz?
Posted By Dr. Shabbir
Date Monday, 10 January 2005, at 429 p.m.
Please review this post first about the Zoroastrian Namaz
http//64.227.163.32/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl?read=24651
I will try to be brief.
There was not one single man who introduced the NAMAZ deception into Islam. No one man could. Such conspiracies have to be state-sponsored in order to get hold of the masses.
Think of the history of Christianity for a moment. The Pauline doctrine was not canonized until Emperor Constantine supported it at the Conference of Nicea in 325 CE.
In case of NAMAZ, the Persian Imams of the time got strong support from the Persian Zoroastrian mother of Khalifa Haroon Rashid, KHAIZRAAN (died 789 CE). Khaizran, was, in turn, vehemently helped by Haroon's Zoroastrian viziers, the BARAMIKA.
So, it was she who "canonized" NAMAZ according to the desires of the Criminal Imams in 153 A.H. (773 CE). Her main philosopher was Imam Al-Khalil ibn Ahmad Tabrezi, the first ever writer of Arabic to Persian dictionary, AL-'AIN.
Now, Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal is reported to have been flogged by Khalifa Haroon and later by his son Khalifa Mamun - For, Hanbal supposedly insisted that the Qur'an was GHAIR MAKHLOOQ (non-creation). Nay, Sir! That wasn't it. It was too trivial a debate. Hanbal got flogged because he saw and opposed the Persian NAMAZ (GEH) being incorporated into Islam.
Another point of interest KHAIZRAAN spent a fortune on her project and distributed one million gold coins and 165 million coins of pure silver among her subjects to propagate the 'canonized' NAMAZ.
My first job after medical internship at Jinnah Postdraduate Medical Center in Karachi was at B.M.H. Parsi General Hospital in Karachi beginning in 1969. That afforded me a first hand opportunity to become familiar with the Parsi community, their culture and religion.
Now some of the relevant references about Khaizran, Baramikah, the "Imams" and the contriving of today's NAMAZ- "Haroon wa Baramikatil Faras" (Arabic) by Sheikhul Ifta Salman bin Abu Qasim Baghdadi. Vol 1 pg 31-55
- "Meezan-il-Faris" (Persian) by Hujjatullah Abdul Qadir Ali Al-Moosvi pg 249-261
- "Takmilatil Lughatal 'Ain" 'Urfa (Arabic) by Al-Ustaz Jalaluddin Al-Ash'ari on Imam Al-Khalil ibn Ahmad Tabrezi vol 2 pg 3-5
- "Mujahid Al-Munafiq Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal" (Arabic) by Mullah Ali Al-Qari, pg 67-135
A life-long student, - Shabbir
- Requirements of prayers Islam enjoins its followers to pray 5 times a day and is called by the Muezzin to his prayers.These prayers are at a) Dawn b) Noon c) Afternoon d) Sunset e) NIght.
-
Salaam Pheonix1
I read your post and you have approached this with bias feelings. You need to read the post in this thread after I post my original rebuttal. I will not waste time for you and re-quote them. Some where negative and some did not like the fact of me taking Islaam back to the Mother Land Africa and some did not like how I exposed their mistranlations where they covered up how Allah said the original man is Black, etc. etc. etc. I did not bring race into this, race became an issue through some peoples arrogance and also racist mentalities. Truth is not racism but there are many who will even mistranslate Al Qur'aan on the bases of racism and more. But if you do not like it then that is your personal problem. But I am not going to sit back here and bow down to those who displays resistence to that part of my research. A perfect example is brian1 who quote somethng negative about me using the Nubian History. Do you question why they have such a negatiave out look on someone bringing forth African History which is directly related to this subject? Did you bother to read that section, my points was well taken. Obviously you don't and that is why I can't take what you are trying to convey, with importance. If I would have came with the tradition garbage of the white-washed history of the present rulers of Arabia then every body would be fine. However like I told brain there are many many many people who appreciated that information and felt that it was very very much needed. I am not here to please any body, I am here to present truth and the premise of my research addressed the fact that Allah authorized 5 Salaat in Al Qur'aan and not 3. Like I have told others, its your personal problem if you do not like my approach, I am not here to please you nor any one else. However as a result of this thread you nor any body in here has been successful in refuting my arguments, again this says a lot. All the people are getting statements of emotions like yourself but not really getting down inside Al Qur'aan to address the subject matter. The only one who attempted this feat was tanvweermd.
You said this
"It would also be nice if you stop treating yourself as "the warrior of truth" and others as "dirty lying kafirs." Please drop the "I am right and everyone else is wrong" attitude, because people don't like it. And if people don't like it, they don't read anything you post. So you're left talking to the walls."
You have commented on me treating my self as a warrior of truth again the only way that you can shut my mouth is destroy my arguments and prove that Allah authorized 3 Salaat but if you can't and I know you can't then don't worry about the strong position that I have taken on this subject matter. I am not moved by your emotions nor anybody else, I am moved through FACTS/EVIDENCE. If someone can disprove my arguments I will be the first to submit to the truth. But the way you personally feel, your emotions, your crying etc. etc. I'm not moved by. And you also committed on that I am right and everyone is wrong. Well I have announced earlier on in this thread that I do not have all the knowledge and I will also acccept the truth if some one can disprove my arguments. But what you see from me is not arrogance, what you see is some one who has confidence in the truth that he represents. Even Layth commented with a positive remark of my strong position in regards to that even though he disagree with my posisition. You see some people have stronger characters then others and Layth on the other hand can respect that. I am sure that you would also look at great worriors such as Malcolm X, Ahmed Deedat, Rashad Khalfia, Farrakhan, Khallid Muhammad just to name a few because they are worriors indeed who take the same strong position of truth and never bit their tongue and who also speek stronger than myself. I am a light weight when it comes their fiery tongue of those worriars, its only the weak heart that cannot digest.
also to with your emotions is that you said that people wont read my post, again that is only your emotional state, there has been tons and tons of people who read my rebuttal refuting the false claim of 3 Salaat, where have you been? I have received tons of great responses. There are people who appreciate honesty and directness and consitency then those who like to speak a watered down truth.
Salaam
-
Peace,
Al-khidr do what you feel is best. And don't forget to look up in the dictionary what emotions come with being passionate. And again in your last post to phoenix, you say people and me didn't like it that you 'brought it back to mother Africa'. For one, i don't care which country it is, it is about if it has any use in the discussion. I'm black myself my friend. See how you misuse this argument? You misuse racism, as an excuse to slander people. Make their comments less. Stop doing this. You have accused people for racism while it was never their idea to slander the idea that we have a long history of advanced civilations. Their purpose was only to show that it was not proof for the 5-times. I hope in time brother you will grow up.
It is true few have commented on the arabic, which is not good. I myself believe in 5. But then still, your way is not a humble way....
Peace upon all...
-
Salaam Arnold
You have said this
"For one, in the earliest sources it is told they prayed 3, and only later on 5. See Ibn Ishaq and Tabari. And when and who did this, who changed it? The persians who wanted to take over the arabic empire as a revenge for the destruction of theirs. Most hadith rules comes form the persians, as well as the ritual prayer rules"
I am glad that I went into the history of ancient Africa and highlighted the Salaat observance of the Nubians, which was either 5 or 7 and not 3. The Nubians of antiquity documented this and it well known but they did not observe 3 Salaat and this historical data predates the so-called hadiyth. Arnold this is what Allah says about your hadiyth
Qur'aan 7750
Which hadiyth, other than this, do they believe?In a previous thread you have commented on that we need to resolve this in Al Qur'aan. The premise of my rebuttal to A. Muhammad was focused on Al Qur'aan ALONE. The arguments has been resolved there are 5 Salaat and not 3.
Salaam
-
Peace,
Al-khidr, is was not meant as to prove 5 or 3, you misunderstood me. Stillearning said that the earliest sources on Muhammed says he prayed, which is not true, that is why i posted it. To show we cannot use history. Only the Quran. And he wanted to know who would have done the change, which i also answered, if there was any criminal, it were the persians.
-
Salaam
Arnold are you really serious that Mohammed prayed 3 times and the terrible persians changed it to 5, without as much as a protest-I mean the whole muslim world just fell in line with them just like that. Obviously we have been reading differnet history books
regards -
Salaam brain1
You have said this
"I'm black myself my friend"
We all know that your color is not proof. There are many people who are Black but not mentally Black and I believe you know what I mean. Malcolm X not only had problems with White America attacking him but many of his own who were uncle toms attacked and oppose him. I had to point this out to dispell your rhetoric and trying to use your color as a badge of honor. There are many stool pigeons, uncle times out in the world. And brain1 no you did not dispell the relevency of using African research, history to illustrate that they were observing Salaat which is again a history that predates hadiyth and that history does not show 3. Also brain1 if you believe in the 3 Salaat?, why waste your time with your emotional state and worrying about my approach, my style and not get inside Al Qur'aan to refute my arguments. People cannot win debates on preying on emotions worrying about someone's style or approach, people win debates by presenting evidence/facts. When I debate my opponents I personally can care less about their style, approach or what type of language they use or how they attack myself etc., what I do is go in and rip up their arguments and strategically break them down but I will never cry. This is not within my character.
brain1 I will take your advise and keep on doing what I do and thanks.
Salaam
Peace,
Al-khidr do what you feel is best. And don't forget to look up in the dictionary what emotions come with being passionate. And again in your last post to phoenix, you say people and me didn't like it that you 'brought it back to mother Africa'. For one, i don't care which country it is, it is about if it has any use in the discussion. I'm black myself my friend. See how you misuse this argument? You misuse racism, as an excuse to slander people. Make their comments less. Stop doing this. You have accused people for racism while it was never their idea to slander the idea that we have a long history of advanced civilations. Their purpose was only to show that it was not proof for the 5-times. I hope in time brother you will grow up.
It is true few have commented on the arabic, which is not good. I myself believe in 5. But then still, your way is not a humble way....
Peace upon all...
-
Salaam Arnold
Since you used some hadiyth to illustrate 3 Salaat, why would you not acknowledge the tons and tons or the 99% of hadiyth that says Muhammad observed 5 Salaat and there was never any 3?
Salaam
Peace,
Al-khidr, is was not meant as to prove 5 or 3, you misunderstood me. Stillearning said that the earliest sources on Muhammed says he prayed, which is not true, that is why i posted it. To show we cannot use history. Only the Quran. And he wanted to know who would have done the change, which i also answered, if there was any criminal, it were the persians.
-
As Salaamu Alaykum Stillearning
All Muslims know that the hadiyth history speak of performing 5 Salaat. In a world based on free-will its possible to find one or two hadiyth that says 3 or any other number beside 5 but we Muslims know that 99 or 99.9% percent of all hadiyth says 5 Salaat and never 3.
My question is when are the proponents of the "3 Salaat Theory" are going to go deep down inside the Qur'aan to prove their theory?
Salaam
Salaam
Arnold are you really serious that Mohammed prayed 3 times and the terrible persians changed it to 5, without as much as a protest-I mean the whole muslim world just fell in line with them just like that. Obviously we have been reading differnet history books
regards -
Peace,
Stillearning, these are the same people who took in the hadith aboutt he stoning, about the shahada and so on. Your concept that the perians couldn't have done this is nonsense and naieve.
-
Salaam
Stillearning, these are the same people who took in the hadith aboutt he stoning, about the shahada and so on. Your concept that the perians couldn't have done this is nonsense and naieve
.I hope this is not the level of of logic you apply to the rest of your deductions. Lets see how often is that an individual has to deal with stoning for adultery or witness shahda. So if it is introduced as an abberation in Islam hardly many in the world are going to notice apart from few very knowldgeable ones and they can easily be silenced or not given their voice. On the other hand Namaz which even the children in the islamic world are aware can sudenly be changed from 3 to 5. just sit down and think for few seconds and see who is being naieve.
I think problem in this site is people have become too clever by half and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
regards -
Peace,
When you study the way the ancient schools of thought worked, you will see their power they had.
-
Salaam brain1
You have said this
"It is true few have commented on the arabic, which is not good"
Even though I used Arabic brain1 in my research, this subject matter is so simple & and easy that we really do not need Arabic to resolve this issue. If we really needed any level of Arabic, it would only be an elementary level of Arabic, if that.
This subject matter is not a controversial issue among Muslims who follow Qur'aan alone throughout the world nor is it an issue with traditional Muslims, this is only an issue among the Progressive Muslims. Among the Progressive Muslims there are some who is promoting the "3 Salaat Theory" and there are some who observe 5 Salaat as prescribed by Allah in the Qur'aan.
Salaam
-
Salaam Arnold
I dont know if you are unable or unwilling to understand the point I made.
I will try again Number of times the Namaz is read is so basic that even simple ones like me are in the know. There is hardly a Muslim today or in the past who will have been unaware of this. Where as the more obsecure rules such punishment for adultery-hardly any with even good basic understanding of Islam will be aware. Hence if such rules are changed, deleted etc very few will notice. Where as if you suddenly said to the Muslim world sorry guys you have all been praying wrongly it should be 5 really and not 3. Can you imagine the reaction of a an average muslim to this. You fail to fully grasp\the power of state either today or in the past. Even the most poweful cannot cross certain boundries without major consequences
regards -
Peace,
And you don't understand the power of the schools. Everyone also makes wudu different then the Quran wuduu. There are many optional prayers in sunnism. It is nor surprise 2 optional prayers were sneaked in times to make them obligatory. I study Theology and you will be surprised with what things people get away with. To hold to the notion that people would not have taken it is naieve. The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january, now it is on 25th december, because that is the birthday of mitra, the sungod. i can give thousands of examples of how things are sneaked in and accpeted over time. You only have to twist the theology little by little and people will accept it.
-
Salaam Stillearning
The proponents of the "3 Salaat Theory" cannot go in the Qur'aan, so they will do anything to leave a crack in the door for 3 Salaat.
Your point here is well taken
I think problem in this site is people have become too clever by half and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Salaam
Salaam
Stillearning, these are the same people who took in the hadith aboutt he stoning, about the shahada and so on. Your concept that the perians couldn't have done this is nonsense and naieve
.I hope this is not the level of of logic you apply to the rest of your deductions. Lets see how often is that an individual has to deal with stoning for adultery or witness shahda. So if it is introduced as an abberation in Islam hardly many in the world are going to notice apart from few very knowldgeable ones and they can easily be silenced or not given their voice. On the other hand Namaz which even the children in the islamic world are aware can sudenly be changed from 3 to 5. just sit down and think for few seconds and see who is being naieve.
I think problem in this site is people have become too clever by half and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
regards -
Peace,
Throwing out the baby with the bathwater would apply more to people who don't believe in a ritual salaat at all....
-
Salaam Arnold
Who was the one who sanctioned the "The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january"?
Salaam
Peace,
And you don't understand the power of the schools. Everyone also makes wudu different then the Quran wuduu. There are many optional prayers in sunnism. It is nor surprise 2 optional prayers were sneaked in times to make them obligatory. I study Theology and you will be surprised with what things people get away with. To hold to the notion that people would not have taken it is naieve. The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january, now it is on 25th december, because that is the birthday of mitra, the sungod. i can give thousands of examples of how things are sneaked in and accpeted over time. You only have to twist the theology little by little and people will accept it.
