Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory
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Salaam Arnold
Since you used some hadiyth to illustrate 3 Salaat, why would you not acknowledge the tons and tons or the 99% of hadiyth that says Muhammad observed 5 Salaat and there was never any 3?
Salaam
Peace,
Al-khidr, is was not meant as to prove 5 or 3, you misunderstood me. Stillearning said that the earliest sources on Muhammed says he prayed, which is not true, that is why i posted it. To show we cannot use history. Only the Quran. And he wanted to know who would have done the change, which i also answered, if there was any criminal, it were the persians.
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As Salaamu Alaykum Stillearning
All Muslims know that the hadiyth history speak of performing 5 Salaat. In a world based on free-will its possible to find one or two hadiyth that says 3 or any other number beside 5 but we Muslims know that 99 or 99.9% percent of all hadiyth says 5 Salaat and never 3.
My question is when are the proponents of the "3 Salaat Theory" are going to go deep down inside the Qur'aan to prove their theory?
Salaam
Salaam
Arnold are you really serious that Mohammed prayed 3 times and the terrible persians changed it to 5, without as much as a protest-I mean the whole muslim world just fell in line with them just like that. Obviously we have been reading differnet history books
regards -
Peace,
Stillearning, these are the same people who took in the hadith aboutt he stoning, about the shahada and so on. Your concept that the perians couldn't have done this is nonsense and naieve.
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Salaam
Stillearning, these are the same people who took in the hadith aboutt he stoning, about the shahada and so on. Your concept that the perians couldn't have done this is nonsense and naieve
.I hope this is not the level of of logic you apply to the rest of your deductions. Lets see how often is that an individual has to deal with stoning for adultery or witness shahda. So if it is introduced as an abberation in Islam hardly many in the world are going to notice apart from few very knowldgeable ones and they can easily be silenced or not given their voice. On the other hand Namaz which even the children in the islamic world are aware can sudenly be changed from 3 to 5. just sit down and think for few seconds and see who is being naieve.
I think problem in this site is people have become too clever by half and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
regards -
Peace,
When you study the way the ancient schools of thought worked, you will see their power they had.
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Salaam brain1
You have said this
"It is true few have commented on the arabic, which is not good"
Even though I used Arabic brain1 in my research, this subject matter is so simple & and easy that we really do not need Arabic to resolve this issue. If we really needed any level of Arabic, it would only be an elementary level of Arabic, if that.
This subject matter is not a controversial issue among Muslims who follow Qur'aan alone throughout the world nor is it an issue with traditional Muslims, this is only an issue among the Progressive Muslims. Among the Progressive Muslims there are some who is promoting the "3 Salaat Theory" and there are some who observe 5 Salaat as prescribed by Allah in the Qur'aan.
Salaam
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Salaam Arnold
I dont know if you are unable or unwilling to understand the point I made.
I will try again Number of times the Namaz is read is so basic that even simple ones like me are in the know. There is hardly a Muslim today or in the past who will have been unaware of this. Where as the more obsecure rules such punishment for adultery-hardly any with even good basic understanding of Islam will be aware. Hence if such rules are changed, deleted etc very few will notice. Where as if you suddenly said to the Muslim world sorry guys you have all been praying wrongly it should be 5 really and not 3. Can you imagine the reaction of a an average muslim to this. You fail to fully grasp\the power of state either today or in the past. Even the most poweful cannot cross certain boundries without major consequences
regards -
Peace,
And you don't understand the power of the schools. Everyone also makes wudu different then the Quran wuduu. There are many optional prayers in sunnism. It is nor surprise 2 optional prayers were sneaked in times to make them obligatory. I study Theology and you will be surprised with what things people get away with. To hold to the notion that people would not have taken it is naieve. The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january, now it is on 25th december, because that is the birthday of mitra, the sungod. i can give thousands of examples of how things are sneaked in and accpeted over time. You only have to twist the theology little by little and people will accept it.
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Salaam Stillearning
The proponents of the "3 Salaat Theory" cannot go in the Qur'aan, so they will do anything to leave a crack in the door for 3 Salaat.
Your point here is well taken
I think problem in this site is people have become too clever by half and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Salaam
Salaam
Stillearning, these are the same people who took in the hadith aboutt he stoning, about the shahada and so on. Your concept that the perians couldn't have done this is nonsense and naieve
.I hope this is not the level of of logic you apply to the rest of your deductions. Lets see how often is that an individual has to deal with stoning for adultery or witness shahda. So if it is introduced as an abberation in Islam hardly many in the world are going to notice apart from few very knowldgeable ones and they can easily be silenced or not given their voice. On the other hand Namaz which even the children in the islamic world are aware can sudenly be changed from 3 to 5. just sit down and think for few seconds and see who is being naieve.
I think problem in this site is people have become too clever by half and are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
regards -
Peace,
Throwing out the baby with the bathwater would apply more to people who don't believe in a ritual salaat at all....
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Salaam Arnold
Who was the one who sanctioned the "The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january"?
Salaam
Peace,
And you don't understand the power of the schools. Everyone also makes wudu different then the Quran wuduu. There are many optional prayers in sunnism. It is nor surprise 2 optional prayers were sneaked in times to make them obligatory. I study Theology and you will be surprised with what things people get away with. To hold to the notion that people would not have taken it is naieve. The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january, now it is on 25th december, because that is the birthday of mitra, the sungod. i can give thousands of examples of how things are sneaked in and accpeted over time. You only have to twist the theology little by little and people will accept it.
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As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully. jediThe prayers mentioned BY NAME in the Quran are three
1- Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer)2458
2- Salat Al-Esha (Night Prayer)2458
3- Al-Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer) 2238.
The following points all confirm that there are only three Salat authorised by God in the Quran
FIRST
God tells us that the Quran contains all the details (6114) and that nothing has been left out of the book (63.
If this is the case, and more important, IF WE BELIEVE GOD 100%, then we have to ask why are the names of the other two salat not mentioned in the Quran?
The reply to this can be one of the following
1- God forgot to mention the other two! (this option is obviously false, because God does NOT forget).
2- The Quran does not contain all the details (this is also false because God tells us in 6114 that it does).
3- God did not mention the names of the other 2 salat because they are not important . This is also a false option, if they were not important then they would not be compulsory, as a result to claim that there are 5 compulsory prayers becomes a false claim.
4- God did not mention the names of the other 2 prayers because God wants us to guess them !!! Once again this is false, the Quran is not a book of puzzles.
5- God does not mention the names of the other 2 salat because God wants us to uphold our inherited rituals as a second source of law besides the Quran! Once again this assumption is incorrect since it is in violation of 6114, 73 and 548. For all the details please go to Millat Ibraheem
6- God does not mention the names of the other 2 prayers, because THERE IS NO OTHER 2 PRAYERS according to the law of the Quran.
THE GENUINE BELIEVERS WILL NOT ACCEPT
ANY OPTION OTHER THAN NUMBER 6
SECOND
Let us read 11114 where the misunderstanding occurred
"You shall observe the Salat (Contact Prayers) at the ends of the day, and zulufann min al-layl."11114
There has been a number of interpretations of the words 'zulufann min al-layl' the ones that are most used are (part of the night) or (during the night) or (some part of the night).
However, none of these interpretations is accurate or in line with the Quranic use of the word 'zulufan' as will be shown shortly.................................
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Traditionally, this verse has been interpreted to mean (you shall observe the prayers at both ends of the day AND part of the night) ?.. as a result, the verse was interpreted to be speaking about two Salat at the end of the day PLUS an additional salat during the night, a total of 3 salat. Those with this interpretation give these 3 Salat the names of Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer, which is mentioned by name in the Quran), Salat Al-Maghrib (not mentioned by name in the Quran), plus Salat Al-Esha (Night prayer, which is mentioned in the Quran by name but with a different time range).
Others have interpreted this verse to be speaking about Salat Al-Fajr (mentioned in the Quarn) and Salat al-Asr (not mentioned in the Quran) plus salat Al-Maghrib (not mentioned in the Quran by name).
All these interpretations rely on names and times of Salat that not authorised in the Quran. The whole mis-understanding is due to the fact that they have failed to accept that this verse (11114) in actual fact speaks of TWO Salat and NOT three. This will be apparent once we establish the true meaning of key words in 11114.
The root of the word 'zulufann' is 'Zulfa'. This word is used in the Quran to mean near or adjacent
" ..... Those who set up idols beside Him say, "We idolize them only to bring us 'zulfa' (near/close) to God ...." 393
As a result, the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' means the near/adjacent part of the night. The obvious question is near to what? Nothing can be described as 'near' in absolute terms, the word near can only have a meaning when we have a reference point to which this thing is near to. So now we have to read 11114 again and see what does God mean by near, near to what? The only other reference points given in 11114 are the two ends of the day (sunrise and sunset). Also note that the word which is used in 11114 is 'zulufann', this is a plural form of 'zulfa', thus the words 'zulufann min al-layl' speak of the parts of the night (plural) that are adjacent to the two ends of the day (sunrise and sunset).
The adjacent parts of the night (to sunrise and sunset) are the two 'parts' of the night, the part before sunrise, and the part after sunset (note that anytime before sunrise and after sunset is defined as night in Quranic terminology).
As a result it becomes apparent that God is giving us in 11114 the range of two salat. The range for the two salat are the parts of the night that are just before sunrise and immediately after sunset.
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Perhaps the word "wa" (which means AND) and which is placed before the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' in 11114 contributed largely to the mis-interpretation of this verse. Many have understood the word 'and' to mean (and an additional Salat), however, the word 'and' simply links the two ends of the day with their adjacent parts of the night to give the time range of the two salat. This is not any different than the following example
If your doctor tells you You can only have your medicine at miday AND for the following few hours.
What does this mean? Does this mean that you must take the medicine at miday and then take it AGAIN for a few hours after that? or does it simply mean that the time you can take the medicine is anytime between miday and the few hours after that?
Similarly, if God tells us to observe the Salat at the ends of the day 'and' for the adjacent hours of the night, it is the same thing. The word 'and' in 11114 does not indicate an additional third prayer.
With reason, it can be proved that this is the ONLY logical explanation of this verse
1- A command to observe the salat at the two ends of the day (without the inclusion of the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl', does not provide us with any indication as to when exactly these two Salat are to be observed. This is because the ends of the day are mere points in time that are no longer than a minute each. Surely God does not expect all believers to observe the salat only during the few seconds that it takes the sun to rise or set? It is only with the addition of the words "zulufan min al-layl" in the same verse that the command indicates a time range when these two salat should be observed.
2- To get round this tricky situation some have claimed that we can observe the Salat around the two points and not only during the actual sunrise/sunset, but this is equally unacceptable. This interpretation gives rise to a new valid question Does this mean that we may observe the Salat anytime before or after sunrise/sunset? Is it only before sunrise/sunset? Is it only after sunrise/sunset? It is obvious that we would be left without any clues as to when exactly to observe these two Salat unless we accept the further clarification given by the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl'. This phrase confirms that it is the night side of the sunrise and sunset that the salat may be observed.
The two Salat at the ends of the day that are spoken of in 11114 are given specific names in the Quran. They are Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer) and Salat Al-Esha (Night Prayer). -
THIRD
Now we come to the third Salat mentioned in the Quran, which is Al-Salat Al-Wusta (223.The word Wusta is the adjective of the word Wasat which means middle, therefore the words Al-Salat Al-Wusta mean 'The Middle Prayer'. Moreover, the notion of a 'Middle' prayer indicates that the number of prayers is an odd number. Consequently, the Salat Al-Wusta is a prayer that lies half way between the two prayers at the two ends of the day. In astronomical terms this Salat is due exactly at the middle of the day, i.e. when the sun has travelled half its distance in the sky.
In 2238 we read the words 'hafezu ala al-salawaat', which mean (you shall persevere with your prayers). The word 'Salawaat' is plural and speaks of more than two prayers. If they were only two prayers the word used would have been 'Al-Salatayn' (the two prayers). Moreover, if God was speaking about the concept of prayer in general, and without referring to the number of individual salat, the words used would have been "hafezu ala al-salat" as we read in many other verse.
The Salat Al-Wusta can be observed from the moment the sun begins its descend from its highest point (duluk al shams) until the darkness of the night (ghasaq al-layl) starts, which is at sunset
"You shall observe the Salat (Contact Prayer) from when the sun declines from its highest point up till the 'ghasaq al-layl' (the darkness of the night)." 1778
P.S. The darkness of the night starts to set in at sunset. And that is when the Salat Al-Wusta ends.
FOURTH
God tells us that the time of each prayer is precisely appointed "kitaban mawqootan" 4103. The word "kitaban" which means BOOK refers to the Quran, or to 'that which is written'. The deliberate use of this word by God confirms to us that the precise appointed time for each of the prayers is given in the Quran. Once again this conforms to the fact that the Quran contains all the details.
Now let us assume that the total number of prayers every day is five, then where in the Quran do we find the appointed time for the claimed 'Salat Al-Asr' (afternoon prayer)? When does it start? Similarly, when does the fagr prayer start? When does the claimed 'Maghrib' (sunset) prayer end? (remember if we accept that there are 5 prayers in the Quran, then we cannot interpret the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' to indicate a time span, but to indicate an additional salat).
It is a known fact that non of the advocates of the five prayers is able to give any Quranic reference for the time spans of all five prayers. -
The five prayer interpretation cannot be substantiated by using Quranic evidence.
But if we accept the Quranic truth about the three salat, and accept that the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' gives the time span for the two prayers at sunrise and sunset, then the times of all three prayers are precisely given in the Quran.
The time for three prayers would thus be as follows
THE FAGR (DAWN) PRAYER
This prayer starts when the first thin ray of light is observed in the sky. God gives us the explanation to this when "the white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn." 2187
The time for the dawn prayer is also given in the Quran with the words
" ??.. and at dawn as the stars fade away." 5249
This poetic description of the time for the dawn prayer in 5249 is very accurate scientifically. The stars start to fade out when the first rays of light appear in the sky, and they are completely gone with sunrise.
The Dawn prayer ends at the first 'taraf' (terminal) of the day which is sunrise (11114).
Consequently, the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' which translates to (the adjacent or near hours of the night) give us a very accurate description of the time for the Fajr (Dawn) payer. The Fagr prayer can be observed during the last hour or so of the night when there is light in the sky. This hour/s are still part of the night, this is because day does not begin until the sun rises.
THE ESHA (NIGHT) PRAYER
The night prayer is identical to the dawn prayer but at the other end of the day (Sunset). This prayer starts at the second 'taraf' (terminal) of the day which is sunset, and lasts for the adjacent night hour/s when the light has not disappeared completely from the sky. The prayer ends when the light has totally disappeared from the night sky.
THE WUSTA (MIDDLE) PRAYER
The middle or 'Wusta' prayer starts when the sun starts to decline from its highest point in the sky (dulook al-shams) and ends when the darkness of the night starts to set in (sunset).
FIFTH
Now let us look at one more verse that also sheds light on the number of prayers in the day
"O you who believe, when the Salat is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek God's bounties, and continue to remember God frequently, that you may succeed." 629-10 -
Salaam Arnold
Who was the one who sanctioned the "The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january"?
Salaam
Peace,
And you don't understand the power of the schools. Everyone also makes wudu different then the Quran wuduu. There are many optional prayers in sunnism. It is nor surprise 2 optional prayers were sneaked in times to make them obligatory. I study Theology and you will be surprised with what things people get away with. To hold to the notion that people would not have taken it is naieve. The original festival of Jesus's birth was in january, now it is on 25th december, because that is the birthday of mitra, the sungod. i can give thousands of examples of how things are sneaked in and accpeted over time. You only have to twist the theology little by little and people will accept it.
Peace,
This was by Constantine the emporer. Instead of all the christians rebelling, they accepted it. The Russian church didn't accept it, and broke away years later, they still hold the celibration on the 6th of januari if i'm correct, what is called 'three kings'. But this is just one example... there are more.
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The words 'drop all business' and also the words 'Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek God's bounties' indicate that this prayer is in the day hours. The reasoning behind this is that since no one is likely to be engaged in their business and have to drop it in the early hours before sunrise, means that this prayer is not the Fajr prayer. Similarly it cannot be the Esha prayer since God says that after the Friday prayer the believers may continue with their business, no one is likely to be continuing working in the late hours of the night.
Consequently, if this Salat is not the Fajr prayer nor the Esha prayer, this leaves the Salat Al-Wusta. Once again this is strong indication that there are only 3 and not 5.
The reason is simple
Suppose there are 5 Salat, we know that the Friday prayer is during the day (not night), this means that (in a 5 prayer format) it could be the noon (Zuhr) prayer, or it can be the afternoon (Asr) prayer ??
Which one would it be? If we accept that the Quran contains all the details (6114), and that the Quran provides explanations for everything (1689), we would ultimately accept that God would not leave us to guess which prayer in the day is the Friday prayer.
However, if we accept that there are only 3 prayers in a day, then the Jumah Salat (Friday Prayer) cannot be other than the Middle Prayer.
SIXTH
As we have seen, apart from the Salat Al-Wusta, the only other prayers mentioned in the Quran by name are the Fajr and Esha prayers. These are the two Salat at the ends of the day (sunrise and sunset). The Middle Prayer (Salat Al-Wusta) must be one that is at the middle between the two ends of the day.
Those who insist that there are 5 prayers in the day, believe that the Salat Al-Wusta is the Asr Prayer. However, the time of Asr is NOT the middle of the day, the middle of the day is exactly at duluk al-shams (when the sun starts to decline from its highest point) that is because the sun would have travelled exactly half the distance in the sky and beginning its descent, it is thus exactly half the day (nahar).
As a result, the Salat Al-Wusta gets its name as a result of it being exactly half way between the two Tarafai Al-Nahar (sunrise and sunset). The Salat Al-Wusta starts at 'duluk al-shams' and ends at sunset. -
SEVENTH
If we look at verse 2458 one more time, we note that God speaks of 2 Salats (Fajr and Esha ), but only speaks of the TIME of Zahira (zohr). Is it a coincidence that God did not say when you change your clothes after Salat Al-Zahira/Zohr, but only said the TIME of zahira? If there is a Salat called Salat Al-Zohr (as the advocates of the 5 prayers claim), wouldn't we expect to see the words 'after Salat Al-Zahira/Zohr' just like God mentions Salat Al-Fajr and Salat Al-Esha in the same verse?
EIGTH
In the old days, people did not have printed lists of times of prayers and astronomical calculations, etc. They could not do like we do now, turn on the radio or TV or buy a Prayer Timetable.
However, God must have given a means to determine the times of prayers even for those early communities (before the Quran) who did not have the facilities we have today. God must have given them a NATURAL means of determining the times of the prayers.
Today for example, there is no way for the followers of the 5 Salat to know when does 'Salat Al-Asr' starts except through looking at those astronomical tables and lists.
However, with the correct 3 prayer format, we do not need any of these tables. We do not need Prayer Timetable (Imsakeyah).
As long as there is any light in the sky (before sunrise and after sunset) we know it is the time for Fagr and Esha respectively.
With the Salat Al-Wusta it is also very easy. When we see no shadow below us when we stand, we know that this is when the sun is highest in the sky. When we start to see the smallest shadow, this is the beginning of the salat al-wusta, it ends when the sun sets.
It cannot be easier! alhamd l'Allah, God has made it so easy for us.
NINTH
Finally we come to the issue of how many Raka to be observed in each Salat.
The cycle of standing, bowing and prostrating while praising and glorifying God is traditionally called a Raka. According to the Quranic law, God did not specify any specific number of Raka to be observed in the Salat, thus it is left to the individual. -
The advocates of the 5 prayers claim that the number of Raka to be observed during each of the 5 prayers is 24434 respectively.
To start, and since there are only three Salat decreed by God for the believers, then this 5-prayer format is false. Where it came from? Probably like all the corruption we inherited in our rituals, they all have routes in the books of hadith (Bukhari, Muslim and others).
The advocates of the 5 prayer format have worked out some calculations based on the Quranic code 19 to claim that this 24434 format has been preserved since Abraham.
These calculations have been proved non significant and cannot be considered in any way as divine signs.
Some other scholars have claimed that the minimum number of Raka during any prayer must be two. They base their claim on the concession to shorten the Salat at times of war (4101). They state that if we are given indication to shorten the Salat, then it must be at least two Raka, that is because it is not feasible to shorten the Salat if it were made of just one Raka!
The error in this interpretation is that it is based on the number of Raka and not on the time consumed in our Salat. Since the Quran speaks of standing, bowing and prostration without any time or frequency restrictions, then we may spend the time we wish in any of these positions. In other words, one can spend one minute in the standing position or ten minutes. One could read the Al-Fatiha (The Key) once or ten times. Equally one may praise God during prostration three times or 20 times. One could prostrate once or five times .... etc.
If we add the fact that different people excercise different speeds in uttering their prayers, then we are once again compelled to accept that shortening the salat is related to the overall time we give to the Salat and not to the number of Raka. For example, one Raka could be completed in 2 minutes or 20 minutes.
The concession to shorten the Salat given in 4101 is thus a time related one. God is telling us if you normally spend (as an example) 10 minutes in your Salat, you may spend 2 or 3 minutes when you are at war.
It is more logical to think that at times of war when we are in danger of the enemy, that we minimize the TIME we are at risk rather than minimize the number of Raka.