Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory
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Alen you have said this
?The root of the word 'zulufann' is 'Zulfa'. This word is used in the Quran to mean near or adjacent?
and you, Alen said this
?As a result, the phrase 'zulufann min al-layl' means the near/adjacent part of the night. The obvious question is near to what??
I would like to provide you with some information from Basma Khalifa when she debated Omar Edibat on Salaat. Below are Basma Khalifa?s words
?The second key expression is the use of "zulafan mina allayl" or "during the night". You based your conclusion on a very wrong grammatical basis. The word "Zulafan" is a simple plural form of the word "Zulafah" which means "part". No proximity, closeness or nearness is involved hear. You are mistaken with another word that has the same Arabic letters but pronounced different. This word is "Zulfa" with no "a" after the "L" and it means near and cannot, by any mean, have a plural form. Please check the Arabic and examine how God's perfect word is written and how its "Tashkeel" or" vowel indication" is clear.
You can see that some of the other translators, have combined "near" and "parts" in their translation of that verse, others used the word approaches and the rest have failed to translate the real meaning of the word. This is all because of their ignorance of the real meaning of the word "Zulafan" and the mix up with the other word that means "near".
The third key word is the preposition" Mina" or "of the". If we translate word by word, "Zulafan mina allayl" would be "parts of the night". Again no proximity or closeness is involved here. The contact prayer we are commanded to observe is falling in any part of the night and is mentioned by name as a single contact prayer "Salat al Ashaa" in 2458. No confusion, no meditation or supplication. It's one, single contact prayer to be observed at any part of the night.
It's also important to notice the use of the word "Al layl" in 11114 and "Al -eshaa" in 2458 which are definitely indicating to dark points of the night, which is very important to differentiate between the night prayer and the sunset prayer that is observed at the early stages of the night.
As you can see, word by word translation by saying "and at parts of the night" doesn't sound as clear and as beautiful as "during the night"
Alen with your copy and past of A. Muhammad?s entire website whom I directly wrote a rebuttal to, it is apparent that you interpret Qur?aan 11114 to represent only 2 Salaat. Below is your copy and paste
?As a result it becomes apparent that God is giving us in 11114 the range of two salat. The range for the two salat are the parts of the night that are just before sunrise and immediately after sunset.?
The key Arabic word ?WA? undermines the foundation of your argument. Read carefully the Arabic words below of (Qur?aan 11114) to see how they flow. It is clear that the Arabic word ?Wa? which is equivalent to ?and? in English is adding an ADDITIONAL Salaat, it is not referring to the statement or phrase before ?Wa (and)? instead it is referring to the phrase or statement AFTER ?Wa (and)? introducing the Isha (Night) Salaat
Waaqimi (You shall observe) + Al Salaat (worship-pray 5 times a day) + Tarafayin Nahar (at both ends of the day) + Wa (and) + Zulafan Mina Al Layl (during the night)
This verse represents the following Salaat periods
(1) Fajr
(2) Maghrib
(3) IshaBelow is the correct English translation
Qur?aan 11114
You shall observe the Salaat at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.Below are other examples of Muslims accurately translating this verse
Qur?aan 11114
You shall observe the contact prayers (salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.Translated by Rashad Khalifa
Qur?aan 11114
And observe Prayer at the two ends of the day and in some early hours of the night. Surely, the good deeds wipe out the evil ones. That is a reminder for those who would remember.Translated by Amatul Rahman Omar & Abdul Mannan Omar
Qur?aan 11114
And keep up prayer at the two ends of the day and in the first hours of the night. Surely good deeds take away evil deeds. This is a reminder for the mindful.Maulana Muhammad Ali
Qur?aan 11114
And observe Prayer at the two ends of the day, and in some hours of the night. Surely, good works drive away the evil ones. This is a reminder for those who would remember.Translated by Malik Ghulam Farid
Qur?aan 11114
And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds; this is a reminder to the mindful.Translated by M.H. Shakir
Qur?aan 11114
Establish you prayer at the two ends of the day, and in some watches of the night. Verily virtues obliterate vices. That is a reminder to the mindful.Translated by Abdul Majid Daryabadi
And every single one of these Muslims interpret this verse to represent 3 Salaat and not 2 because that is the correct meaning. One thing in this forum, it has become very noticeable how people will misinterpret and misrepresent proper context of Allah?s Holy Book (Al Qur?aan) so easily as though taqwa does not exist.
This verse 11114 is clearly representing 3 Salaat and not 2. For complete details and analysis check out the link below. The beginning part of this research has already disputed A. Muhammad?s article that you copied and past here
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
There is no such thing as 3 Salaat, Allah authorized 5 Salaat
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr), given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha), given in 2458(1) The Dawn (Fajr) prayer must be observed during two hours before sunrise (Qur?aan 11114 & Qur?aan 245
Qur?aan 11114
You shall observe the Salaat at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.Now the proponents of the 3 Salaat Theory will acknowledge that the Dawn (Fajr) prayer is mentioned here, even though the word Fajr is not mentioned here by name and we will agree it is also talking about the Dawn (Fajr) Prayer. We will address our disagreement later concerning this verse. So now we have Dawn (Fajr) established.
Qur?aan 2458
O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances-before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. Allah thus clarifies the revelations for you. Allah is Omniscient, Most Wise.Again we have the Dawn Prayer established and this makes PRAYER 1.
(2) The Noon (Zuhr) Prayer is due when the sun declines from its highest point at noon (Qur?aan 177
Qur?aan 1778
You shall observe the Salaat when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Qur?aan at dawn. (Reciting) the Qur?aan at dawn is witnessed.We have the Noon Prayer established and this makes PRAYER 2.
(3) The Afternoon (Asr) Prayer can be observed during the 3-4 hours preceding sunset (Qur?aan 223
Qur?aan 2238
You shall consistently observe the Salaat especially the middle Prayer (the afternoon Prayer), and devote yourselves totally to Allah alone.We have the Middle Prayer established, which is the afternoon Prayer and this makes PRAYER 3.
(4) The Sunset (Maghrib) prayer becomes due after sunset (Qur?aan 11114)
Qur?aan 11114
You shall observe the Salaat at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.We have the Sunset Prayer established and this makes PRAYER 4.
(5) The Night (Isha) prayer can be observed after the twighlight disappears from the sky (Qur'aan 245
Qur?aan 2458
O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances-before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. Allah thus clarifies the revelations for you. Allah is Omniscient, Most Wise.We have the Night Prayer established and this makes PRAYER 5.
It is very clear that we have 5 Prayers mentioned in the Qur?aan
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr) given in 11114, 2458
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuhr), given in 1778 and 3018
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr), given in 2238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib), given in 11114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha), given in 2458Again for complete details that directly addressed A. Muhammad?s website that you copied and paste here go to the link below
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
Salaam
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Salaam Arnold
I dont know if you are unable or unwilling to understand the point I made.
I will try again Number of times the Namaz is read is so basic that even simple ones like me are in the know. There is hardly a Muslim today or in the past who will have been unaware of this. Where as the more obsecure rules such punishment for adultery-hardly any with even good basic understanding of Islam will be aware. Hence if such rules are changed, deleted etc very few will notice. Where as if you suddenly said to the Muslim world sorry guys you have all been praying wrongly it should be 5 really and not 3. Can you imagine the reaction of a an average muslim to this. You fail to fully grasp\the power of state either today or in the past. Even the most poweful cannot cross certain boundries without major consequences
regardsStillearning .. all your observations are wise, logical and intelligently put. Well done! D
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As Salaamu Alaykum Alen
You never answered this question that I asked you
Look at this verse below
Qur?aan 5249
Also during the night glorify Him, and at dawn as the stars fade away.My question is would you say this verse is referring to the Fajr (Dawn) Salaat?
As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.Well, i'm gonna have to agree with mr. A. Muhammad. The three salat are mentioned in the Qur'an but of course, i will do some more research before i can fully answer you.
As salamu alaykum.
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Peace be upon you Anwar,
I encourage you to learn as much Arabic as you can. I do not belittle that achievenment. But life itself is verifyable in every language and truth is clear from error. I look foward to witness what your arabic studies will bring in terms of better understanding of this reading.
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As Salaamu Alaykum Alen
You never answered this question that I asked you
Look at this verse below
Qur?aan 5249
Also during the night glorify Him, and at dawn as the stars fade away.My question is would you say this verse is referring to the Fajr (Dawn) Salaat?
As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.During the night, as far as i understand, and i wish that someone who is fluent in Arabic correct me, is one prayer (night prayer) and when the stars fade away, is the other (morning prayer).
But i said i need to do some more research on it and then i will be posting some more info on this subject. I only wish that i speak Arabic. -[ -[ -[ -[
As salamu alaykum. jedi
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
After reading your post, you must have taken a 24 hour crash course in Black History.
Your research is outdated and I see that you promote the same ideologies as the dominant group.The dominant group would be the ones promoting Jesus Christ as God, or 5 salaats a day. I can gurantee you that my philosophy is not very popular amongst most of mankind. But lets continue, we'll see how my suppossed "crash course" holds up.
We are trying to present accurate history of our Ancient ancestors that has been twisted/distorted by design from white so-called scholars/historians and I think it?s a shame to see you as a brother promote that same garbage that makes our people look like they were idol worshippers.
It is your lack of study of this spiritual philosophy, but instead being more concerned with the color of the nation or the names of the Kings, etc., that is not allowing you to see the truth. Nothing I have stated alludes to idol worship. Those are important as well, but the real nitty gritty is the Spiritual Philosophy that allowed them to create such a great civilization.
One of the bigger problems other then white historians/scholars distorting clear facts are puppets like your self carrying out their biding. It is really hard for me to accept your claim in another thread of yours when you said that you knew these scholars that I have been highlighting.
Thats your problem brother. ) I hope you can find a way to transcend that, and if you really studied Khamitic philosophy it should be easy for you, but it is CLEAR from the way you carry on in these threads that you dont understand a single thing about transcending emotion.
I have been checking out some of your threads and I notice that you provide quick responses that are infested with mysticism and talk around in circles that have no meaning nor lead to anything except an empty void of nothingness? The ancient Nubians were into right knowledge, mathematics, they were advanced scientist and at the same time they respected Allah?s creation and strived to be in tune with Allah and His creation, they did not tap into mysticism.
If you are following 5 salaats and 19 codes, I dont expect you to understand what I am saying. Regarding Khamitic philosophy and what you call "mysticism", please explain the 7 scorpions of the Ausar/Auset story.
That image was created by again the dominant group and their media, such as TV where they create documentaries and place the scary spooky music in the background etc. mesmerizing their viewers creating this distorted image that you cling to. I could not believe when you said this below, but then again I forgot that you are a Progressive Muslim and with that token just about anything can go just like the foolish belief of the 3 Salaat Theory
?Regarding Ankh Aton, he was one who did not understand the spiritual system and messed things up.?
My theroy is two salaat, dawn and dusk, the times of merging day(consciousness) into night(subconcious).
You on the other hand got it backwards and you defy all the empirical evidence of the African scholars from which you claim to know, which I doubt it. The well documented FACTS are that Ankh Aton had all idols destroyed and restored the true worship of Allah (whom you call GOD http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/allah.htm) who is One and Alone. I don?t think you critically read my rebuttal entitled, ?Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory?
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
The site you gave, is it trying to argue that the God has a name? Like humans who bneed names to diffrentiate one from the other? Nonsense!
Aknenaton (who is also referred to as Ankh Aton) described The Creator of all that exist as follows
God is great,The One,The Only. There is no other but He. He is the One, He is The Creator of all things. God is a Spirit, an invisible Spirit ? God has existed for all time, He is the sole Being. He existed when there was nothing else. He created all things ?
What is the reference so I can check it? But in the mean time, maybe you should check that Ankh Aton was wasting his time because there is already One God recorded, by the description "Nebertcher" (Lord of all). All else which has been labeled as "gods" are only the manifestations of "Nebetcher".
This concept of the Creator, Allah (before Prophet Muhammad) is perfectly described in the Holy Qur?aan because such Nuwr (Light) came from the same SOURCE (ALLAH). You have mentioned that Ra was not some sun-god and that is true, the Egyptians (Nubians) never worshiped the sun whom they called Ra. They knew that Ra was created by Allah who also created the entire universe. Ra (sun) is something physical, Ankh Aton knew that Allah was unseen, invisible, who has no beginning and is the Creator of all that existed. Ashra Kwesi has documented the fact that the Nubians (Egyptians) believed that the Creator was One, unseen, invisible, who created everything in existence in the following DVD that he produced, thus you should get a hold of them to update your knowledge of Black History
The Theft Of African History & Spiritual Concepts (Part 1 & 2)
http//gallery.bcentral.com/GID5142789P4666266-DVDs/The-Theft-of-African-History-Spiritual-Concepts-Part-I-DVD.aspxYes, the Khamitans(Egyptians) knew that God was unseen, thus applying the term "Amen" (hidden). As well as the tern "Atem" which points to the fact hat God is indivisible and from where the Greeks got the word "Atom" (When they thought that was the smallest object)
Metu Neter (falsely called Hieroglyphics) used a lot of symbolic (allegorical) language, just like Allah?s scriptures
Metu Neter means "God's words" , however all Herioglyphics are not God's words. Heiro= divine Glyph=Writing.
Qur?aan 37
He revealed to you this scripture; some of its verses are decisive (literal)-consisting of straightforward verses, which are the essence of the scripture, as well as allegorical (symbolic) verses. So as for those in whose hearts is perversity, will pursue the allegorical verses to create confusion, and to seek different meanings. No one knows their true meaning except Allah and those who possess knowledge. They say, ?We believe in this, for it all comes from our Sustainer.? And none will grasp the message except men of clear understanding.Notice that Allah has said, ?So as for those in whose hearts is perversity, will pursue the allegorical verses to create confusion, and to seek different meanings.? Those people who have wicked intentions to tamper with Allah?s words seem to always want to tamper with the allegorical portions of the scriptures to deceive those who strive for truth and submit to Allah in Peace unconditionally. I notice that a lot of so-called scholars have purposely tampered with the allegorical portions of the Metu Neter to make us falsely believe that the Nubians were everything under the moon, except peaceful people in tune with the LAWS and ORDER of Allah and submitting to His will in Peace and worshipping the Creator alone.
You have errored by assuming that Kitaab means scripture and not "book". It is a metaphor for Universal Law, not the 114 chapter book written by an enlightened being. There is no par of the 114 chapter book that is off limits.
Another verse
Qur?aan 226
Allah does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, from the tiny mosquito and greater. Those who believed know that this is the truth from their Lord, while those who disbelieved say, ?What did Allah mean by such an allegory?? Many does He adjudge to be erring because of these (allegories) and many does He guide through them. Yet it is only the wicked whom He adjudges to be erring because of them,You said this
?I will check the info you gave on Anta Diop, I think I may have the book at home, but if not I can get it easily.?
Yes, keep checking because there is no evidence for 3 Salaat during the days of antiquity as well as in Al Qur?aan.
I advocate 2 salaat, which by the way is not bowing on the ground to some object in the sky. Its a time to join consciousness with subconcious to program your behavior, which is what "religion" is all about.
You have said this
?From the discussions though there does not seem to be any proof.?
Immediately this verse came to mind
Qur?aan 218
Deaf, dumb, and blind; they fail to return.Likewise.
You Idolfree1, also made this statement and that?s all it is, just a statement
?Salaat according to this reading is only two times, dawn and dusk. They are the times where day(consciousness) and night(subconsciousness) merge together. It is a highly symbolic message.?
Idolfree1, one thing we need to make clear is that what you have said up above is just a statement/opinion/belief, which is something different then FACT. It is fine Idolfree if that is all you want to do is make statements/opinions/beliefs as long as you understand that is all it is and that is all it will be because you cannot bring forth any evidence from the Qur?aan to prove your statement. An intelligent audience can see the difference. I have clearly proven that Qur?aan 11114 is referring to 3 Salaat which are
- Dawn (Fajr)
- Maghrib (sunset)
- Night (Isha)
The Progressive Muslim?s house is divided. You idolfree1 make the claim that there is only 2 Salaat here and Layth on the other hand can clearly see and recognize that there are 3 Salaat in Qur?aan 11114.
Progressive muslim house? WHats that? This is a forum where people discuss and debate.
The intelligent audiecne . By the way, is not swayed by your saying "intelligent audience" ) Only through verifyable answers.
You have said this
?I went to your site and saw the 19 theory, so I could not read anymore. Respectfully.?
Your research techniques does not surprise me and it shows in your responses that you provide in the plethora of threads that you comment on. Any knowledgeable person who truly research reads all information even if they do not believe in it or disagree with it. How can you grow if your approach is one sided or limited? Personally I believe my rebuttal to A. Muhamad entitled, ?Exposing The 3 Salaat Theory? disturbed your sectarian belief that you are fighting tooth and nails to cling on to. When a superior form a knowledge comes on the scene that shatters a belief that one holds on to, they become disturbed, they feel insecure, they feel threaten, they don?t like it, but that EMOTION does nothing but mentally enslave us. Idolfree1, let go free your mind. We are supposed to seek knowledge from where ever it falls and except TRUTH and reject FALSEHOOD. I would not have been able to write my research if I would have used your pseudo research techniques and read part of A. Muhammad?s article to ascertain the truth. I had to dissect his entire article and also dissected other information that is falsely promoting this unfounded and baseless ?3 Salaat Theory?. And the people can see the difference.
Brother , you are free to engage in the 19 theory. It does nothing for me in terms of guidance so I disregard the fitna.
You have said this
?Lastly, salaat is not described as prayer in this reading, the word Du'a is prayer, so this whole atempt to tie it into prayer has no foundation.?
This is typical coming from one who accepts the word ?bond? for the translation of ?Salaat?.
Where do you see me advocating "bond"? Perhaps you are reading outdated material.
When one translate Salaat as ?Prayer, Contact Prayer, Worship?, it does not posses the connotation of du?aa. And ?Prayer, Contact Prayer, Worship? is so much more, clearer for the reader then the mutilated Progressive Muslims millennium translation of ?bond? for Salaat. But this is just some of your babble to duck and dodge the real issue of Salaat that we have been debating over in this thread.
You obviously have not debated salaat with me due to your incorrect assumptions about my position.
You should pick up the book Metu Neter by Ra Un Nefer Amen, the one who many of your so called scholars refer to in regards to Ancient Egyptian spirituality.
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As Salaamu Alaykum Alen
You never answered this question that I asked you
Look at this verse below
Qur?aan 5249
Also during the night glorify Him, and at dawn as the stars fade away.My question is would you say this verse is referring to the Fajr (Dawn) Salaat?
Selam all,
Brother Al-khidr please do not take this as attack to your article coz im just expressing my thought nothing more nothing less, peace peace
I think it is saying Glorify Him DURING the night not at any praticular part of the night. Why limit the glorification only at specified times when it should be done DAY and NIGHT just like in the following aya
"In sanctuaries that God has allowed to be raised and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein day and night. Men who are not distracted by trade or sale from the remembrance of God and performing the Salat, and contributing towards betterment. They fear a Day when the hearts and sight will be overturned." (The Message 2436-37)I think this aya tells us that He should be glorified day and night and it is refering to those people that are not distracted by trade and sale from the rememberance of God and performing the Salat and contributing toward betterment.
Selam all
FJ -
Salaam
Al Khidr, can you please explain why "glorify" means the same thing as "salat?"
Glorify, praise, pray to God. All have similar meaning. What does "glorify" in the Quran mean to you & why do you think it is mentioned at a specific time.
Salaam Arnold
Little while you stated that you were not advocating no salaat. Dont worry the way this form is going we will end up there. We have gone from 5 to 3 and now to 2. as you can see my friend we are getting there '(regards
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Salaam Zainab
Stillearning .. all your observations are wise, logical and intelligently put. Well done!
Thank you for your kind words and may Allah bless you for recognising wood from the trees.
regards -
Salaam
Al Khidr, can you please explain why "glorify" means the same thing as "salat?"
Glorify, praise, pray to God. All have similar meaning. What does "glorify" in the Quran mean to you & why do you think it is mentioned at a specific time.
Salaam Arnold
Little while you stated that you were not advocating no salaat. Dont worry the way this form is going we will end up there. We have gone from 5 to 3 and now to 2. as you can see my friend we are getting there '(regards
Peace,
Stillearning, i never preached no no-salaat. I believe salaat means different things througout the Quran, it is not a title with a fixed meaning. So sad people can't read... '( The idea that the 5 times couldn't have been changed is naieve, but people refuse to learn from history..... '(
But we are all still learning D
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salaam arnold
Stillearning, i never preached no no-salaat. I
Ok I misundestood. From your quote
Throwing out the baby with the bathwater would apply more to people who don't believe in a ritual salaat at all....
I thought you were suggesting ritual salaat. Oh well sorry misunderstanding.
I am amazed how you like many others on this site are misrepresenting history.
I mean one day muslim world suddenly woke up and the salaat was changed from 3 to 5 and ono ne noticed and no recorded date or dissenters
Whats more suddenly one day some one just makes up this Hajj to mecca from Jeruaselm because obviousouly Mohammed must have gone on Hajj to Jeruaselm and this corruption is hardly noticed by hunderds of millions of Muslims until some bright spark comes along on this forum and puts us all in the right.
Oh and please dont go on about the hadith issue-it is well documented how and when it was compiled even the die hard hadith followers accept history of hadith.
Your analogy olf Schools I am afraid is well hmm there used to be lots of schools which people used to attend so they could be easily indoctrinated without even noticing. I think you have been reading too much of George Orwell my friend.
Anyway I am waiting the next episode on this forum that there was no bloke called mohammed it was all historical propoganda.
regards -
Salaam Zainab
Stillearning .. all your observations are wise, logical and intelligently put. Well done!
Thank you for your kind words and may Allah bless you for recognising wood from the trees.
regards;D
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Anyway I am waiting the next episode on this forum that there was no bloke called mohammed it was all historical propoganda.
Stillearning ..
You know what? Actually many on this forum have already stated things similar to what you guessed they might say. I've come across posts mentioning the Prophet's name was not 'Muhammad,' that he (pbuh) was not an orphan and that he was not illiterate. So I think that "episode" has almost been covered D
I suppose some people just have that misguided fantasy for sounding conspicuous, and they sure do have strange notions of showing it ..
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salaam arnold
Stillearning, i never preached no no-salaat. I
Ok I misundestood. From your quote
Throwing out the baby with the bathwater would apply more to people who don't believe in a ritual salaat at all....
I thought you were suggesting ritual salaat. Oh well sorry misunderstanding.
I am amazed how you like many others on this site are misrepresenting history.
I mean one day muslim world suddenly woke up and the salaat was changed from 3 to 5 and ono ne noticed and no recorded date or dissenters
Whats more suddenly one day some one just makes up this Hajj to mecca from Jeruaselm because obviousouly Mohammed must have gone on Hajj to Jeruaselm and this corruption is hardly noticed by hunderds of millions of Muslims until some bright spark comes along on this forum and puts us all in the right.
Oh and please dont go on about the hadith issue-it is well documented how and when it was compiled even the die hard hadith followers accept history of hadith.
Your analogy olf Schools I am afraid is well hmm there used to be lots of schools which people used to attend so they could be easily indoctrinated without even noticing. I think you have been reading too much of George Orwell my friend.
Anyway I am waiting the next episode on this forum that there was no bloke called mohammed it was all historical propoganda.
regardsPeace,
Don't shove me things in my shoes which i don't belief. All the things above i have nothing to do with, as for the things we were discussing before you brought in every opinion on the forum about history, i have seen crazy things people took in in every faith without people rejecting, no need for Orwell, only history itself...but let's leave it here, getting tired of repeating myself..
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Salaam phoenix1
You have said this
"Al Khidr, can you please explain why "glorify" means the same thing as "salat?"
I have addressed this question in my link below
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/grabbingforstraws.htm
Note that I said, "GLORIFICATION/MEDITATE/PRAISING are definitely inclusive of Salaat, however it?s not diminished to, but it?s definitely inclusive of."
I am saying that "GLORIFICATION/MEDITATE/PRAISING" are inclusive of Salaat, thus I am not absolutly defining it as Salaat. Salaat is one of the HIGHEST forms of MEDITATION/GLORIFICATION/PRAISING, so pheonix1 why wouldn't Salaat be inclusive of that, can you please answer that question? For some reason the proponents the "3 Salaat Theory" want to totally, absolutely REMOVE Salaat from being inclusive of "GLORIFICATION/MEDITATE/PRAISING". Phoenix1 look at the verses below carefully and are you prepared to actually say that "GLORIFICATION/MEDITATE/PRAISING" in those verses absolutely have nothing to do with Salaat at all? Are you prepared to make that claim? Below are the verses
Qur?aan 20130
Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and glorify and praise your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as well as at both ends of the day, that you may attain (spiritual) happiness.Qur?aan 5039-40
39. Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Sustainer before sunrise, and before sunset.
40. And during the night you shall glorify Him, and after prostrating.Qur?aan 2564
In the privacy of the night, they meditate on their Lord, prostrating and standing up.Qur?aan 2277
O you who believe, bow, prostrate, worship your Sustainer, and work righteousness, that you may succeed.Are people prostrating, standing up etc. etc. for their good looks or are they worshiping (Salaat).
Salaam
Peace
Al Khidr, can you please explain why "glorify" means the same thing as "salat?"
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As Salaamu Alaykum FJ
You have quoted the following verse
Qur?aan 2436-37
36. (Allah?s guidance is found) in houses exalted by Allah, for His name is commemorated therein. Glorifying Him therein, day and night-
37. People who are not distracted by business or trade from commemorating Allah; they observe the Salaat, and give the Zakaat, and they are conscious of the day when the minds and the eyes will be horrified.You have said this
?I think it is saying Glorify Him DURING the night not at any praticular part of the night. Why limit the glorification only at specified times when it should be done DAY and NIGHT?
I think there are some things that you may have misunderstood. Note FJ, you have said this, ?why limit the glorification only at specific times??
Note, not I but Allah has decreed that we observe the prescribed Salaat at specific times and the verse below is an indication of that
Qur?aan 4103
?the Salaat are decreed for the believers at specific times.As you can see not I but Allah has decreed Salaat for specific times and those specific times that we are suppose to observe the prescribed Salaat are mapped out in the Holy Qur?aan. The proponents of the ?3 Salaat Theory? mysteriously diminished them to only 3, when Allah has authorized 5 in the Holy Qur?aan. If we believe that we are suppose to submit to Allah?s will and not ours then we should be observing the specific times to observe the 5 Salaat. Now FJ, this is important, it is perfectly fine to glorify Allah out side of the 5 prescribed Salaat and there are verses in the Holy Qur?aan that substantiate that. For example
Qur?aan 1779
During the night, you shall meditate for extra credit, that your Lord may raise you to an honorable rank.Also check out these verses
Qur?aan 20130
Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and glorify and praise your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as well as at both ends of the day, that you may attain (spiritual) happiness.Qur?aan 5039-40
39. Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Sustainer before sunrise, and before sunset.
40. And during the night you shall glorify Him, and after prostrating.Qur?aan 2564
In the privacy of the night, they meditate on their Lord, prostrating and standing up.Qur?aan 2277
O you who believe, bow, prostrate, worship your Sustainer, and work righteousness, that you may succeed.Which side of the fence do you stand under observing the prescribed Salaat 5 or 3 times?
Salaam
As Salaamu Alaykum Alen
You never answered this question that I asked you
Look at this verse below
Qur?aan 5249
Also during the night glorify Him, and at dawn as the stars fade away.My question is would you say this verse is referring to the Fajr (Dawn) Salaat?
Selam all,
Brother Al-khidr please do not take this as attack to your article coz im just expressing my thought nothing more nothing less, peace peace
I think it is saying Glorify Him DURING the night not at any praticular part of the night. Why limit the glorification only at specified times when it should be done DAY and NIGHT just like in the following aya
"In sanctuaries that God has allowed to be raised and His name mentioned in them. He is glorified therein day and night. Men who are not distracted by trade or sale from the remembrance of God and performing the Salat, and contributing towards betterment. They fear a Day when the hearts and sight will be overturned." (The Message 2436-37)I think this aya tells us that He should be glorified day and night and it is refering to those people that are not distracted by trade and sale from the rememberance of God and performing the Salat and contributing toward betterment.
Selam all
FJ -
Okay, the judgement is in.
zulfaa= closeness or qurbatun(according to Muheetul-muheet) According to how its written and how it sounds it can also be zulfan, which means that it comes from zulfun
zulfun, can equal zalfun and in this case equal taqarrubun or taqaddumun=approaching, coming close.
Zulfatun, whose plural is zulaf, which is mentioned in the passages that says Atraafun and tarafay annhaar, = the station, position, portion or closeness of the night. It's plural is zulaf or zulafaat. It can also mean that part of the day that goes into night, and the part of the night that goes into the daylight.According to Lane's Lexicon ZulfaH (and not zulfaa) is nearness with respect to rank, degree, station, as well as place or situation.
Quran, 6727 And when the will see it near/close at hand.' falamma ra'awhu zulfatan. 'Near or close at hand' here is zulfatan (not zulfaa), the singular of zulaf. It is used as an adverb here and means 'in proximity.' It is also a portion of the first part of night (whether small or large). Meaning the portion that is right after the twilight of dusk. It can also according to some sources just mean a part of the night itself.If zulfaa is understood as the adverb form fo zulf then zulfaa is also the collective of zulfah.
So Zulaf min alaili can mean times of proximity to the night, parts of the night, the times of night that are before dawn and after dusk.
As for 'ishaa'. Eeshaa' does not mean night. That is lail. Eeshaa' means 'evening.' It doesn't mean night or sunset. Sunset is magrhib or al-ghuroob. Eeshaa' means 'getting dark' or 'dimming' and that is what 'evening' means in English too. It is the period of the day when things start to get darker, which lasts from late afternoon until when everything is completely dark(lail).
Now the Quran only mentions two prayers. Salaatul-fajr and Salaat-Eeshaa'. To correct a common mistake, fajr= dawn, but dawn DOES NOT equal sunrise. Dawn is the time when you can start to see the sky getting brighter until the sunrises. So Fajr is the lighting of day and Eeshaa' is the dimming of day.
Asalaatul-wustaa is not the name of prayer and I'll tell you why. Salaatul-fajr and Salaat-Eeshaa' are both idaafah constructions. That is to say that they are both possessive. One says 'Prayer OF the dawn' and the other says "Prayer of the Evening.' But 'Asalaatul-wustaa' is not "Prayer OF the middle.' It is 'the middle-most prayer' if you interpret 'wustaa' as middle. Awsat and its female wustaa can mean 'best' also, and that should be the preffered meaning. I'll tell you why.
If you say 'the middle-most prayer' what is being assumed is that you have heard about this prayer before, it has been mentioned before. But what what prayer(salaat) that resembles a middle-most prayer has been mentioned before 2238? None. If we assume that the Quran wants to make us look for it and uses what we might consider more poetic language, then is there any other prayer mentioned later in the Quran that can be considered a prayer during some middle-most time? Noon perhaps? No, not at all.
Dulook ashamsi in the dictionaries is clearly sunset. If we want to break up the word and look at just dulook, it is the noun of dalaka. Dalaka means to knead, to rub, to pass the hand over, to set or to go down. When it comes to the use of the word 'to decline from the zenith' lane lexicon sources it by saying
'Az (the source) says that, IN HIS OPINION, the words of the Quran (5780) 'aqim asalaata lidulookishamsi' mean, "peform your prayer from the declining sun at noon' so that the command expressed by these words with what follows them includes the five prayers'This is his personal opinion. However, it does turn out that there is more rare meaning for dulook which can be equal to zawaalushamsi (which means the sun at noon, declining form the meridian. As well as sunset). The key that we have here is 'the sun at noon.' So noon is as the sun reaches the meridian, when it is in it and as it moves away from it, but is still high in the sky. So if we are supposed to pray during this part of noon how come there is no mention of it in 2458? Whereas both the dawn prayer and the evening prayer are mentioned.
"To those who would be faithful, let those children under your trust who have not yet reach puberty, ask permission from you during three certain times; during the dawn prayer, when you set your clothes aside at noon, and after the evening prayer. These are three time of privacy for you. And there is nothing wrong with them surrounding you and being in your pressence outside of these time. In this way God is putting forth his words to you. . ."
So if there is a noon prayer why isn't it mentioned here. It would have been just as easy to say 'and during the noon prayer' or 'around the noon prayer.' and this would have been clarified by the dulookashamsi in 5780. But there is no noon prayer mentioned here because there is no noon prayer. And although dulook-ashamsi, can mean late-noon it should not be understood that way here because if there were a noon-prayer it would have been mentioned here.
As for zulfah, all of its meanings can still fall in line with the latter part of &eeshaa' which is night-fall or evening. Nightfall is as it gets darker until it is night, that means late-afternoon until night. The times of night close to the edges of the day (dawn and dusk) fulfill all of the possible meanings of zulaf. Since it would be unjust to pick one meaning that excludes the other meanings, without good reason, we can include them all. The times of night close to dawn and dusk fulfill all the requirements of being parts of the night, times of proximity to the day, and the parts of night that lead into the day, and the parts of the night begin at the end of the day.
So there we have it. The 'wa' that most people like to translate as 'and parts of the night, in close proximity' can be 'including parts of night in close proximity,' making salaatul-fajr and salaatul-Eeshaa's times extend to cover sunrise, sunset, dawn, dusk and the parts of the night that tail them.
So there are 2 prayers. Not three or 5. But if you want to pray 3, 5 or 20. I don't think God will have a problem with that.
Godbless,
Anwar