Why didn't God preserve the previous scriptures?
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Peace
Why didn't God preserve the previous scriptures?
this question has been bothering me.
If the Quran is some special book (and I mean book, not message), and there were previous books like
this, then why weren't they preserved like the Quran?Or maybe the Quran has been corrupted, maybe that's the reason code 19 doesn't quite fit?
If the the book wasn't meant to be preserved, and only the message was, then that doesn't make sense
(i think). Because the message that the Quran teaches is all around us in this world. It's the same thing if
the message was preserved in the Quran or in the creation of God because both can be interpreted
correctly and incorrectly.But even if it was the message (of the Quran), it again goes back to the Why. Why this book and not the
previous ones. Was God going through a trial and error process?Arnoldyasin gave me an explanation for this, he said that that every book revealed was at the spiritual
(?) level of that civilization, and the Quran is at our level, and because it is the final book, it has to be
preserved until the end of the world. Or at least that's what I understood of his comments.
I obviously didn't understand Arnold very well, so please explain yourself!peace
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Hi
Let's assume this answer
Because He that is what He wanted
now wat do you have to say?
cheers
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peace
instead of assuming that everything that doesn't make sense is what God wanted, why don't we try to figure it out?
I will leave this to you, can only abide by Allah words, btw Allah hates the ones who show arrogance to His words and sure you are one of those who never submitted yet, so please call yourself a Mumin only because 100% you are not a Muslim "A Submitter", but you should be happy to be a Mumin, as it is damn hard and you achieved that already but to be a Muslim is the hardest thing in life and sure you are not
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Hey phonix
how about these words by HY
Allah has revealed in detail the kind of moral values people should have and the kind of lives they should lead. True moral values dictate that one lives scrupulously by Allah?s commandments.
Some people, however, avoid living by these moral values. They are strongly unwilling to submit fully to His stipulations. But seek to establish a model that will satisfy their own desires. To that end, they come up with various rules and principles of their own, and imagine that religion should also be compatible with these principles. They are willing to live by religious moral values only as far as these are compatible with their own standards and logic. Yet this is a grave error and deception, because true religious moral values are those revealed by Allah, not as interpreted and lived by human beings.
Salam
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peace
Going by your logic, we should all follow the stuff that makes the least amount of sense to us.
the Quran will only make sense to us if we believe it to be from God.
That's a fancy way of saying that the Quran doesn't make sense to you.
If everyone follows your example, the answer to every difficult question becomes "because that's what God wanted"What's worse than questioning God? it is telling God what It wants.
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Peace Phoenix,
In the Qur'an, it is mentioned quite often how God is admonishing people for "hiding the scripture behind their backs", "distorting it for petty gains", "fabricating stories", or "saying this is lawful and this is unlawful", etc. This might be a good starting point for your research. It's very tricky getting into the "why" of things, so be careful not to project your own logic onto something that may transcend it. At face value, it seems God tested people with scripture to see if they would remain true.
Peace,
Tay -
peace Tay,
But that doesn't seem fair, does it? that people before us get a book that is corruptible, and we get a book that is invincible.
The "why" is tricky. And believe me when I say that I'm not reaching any conclusions about anything yet. Just asking some questions to see what answers I can get.
And I do need Arnoldyasin to reply to this! -
Peace Phoenix,
But that doesn't seem fair, does it? that people before us get a book that is corruptible, and we get a book that is invincible.
Depends on how you look at it. I mean, is it fair that some people grow up in militant islamic home, and some grow up encouraged to think for themselves? It's always about what you do with what you've been dealt. The fairness comes in the end.
And I do need Arnoldyasin to reply to this!
pm--->arnie
Peace,
Tay -
peace
Peace
I hope you can handle the truth my friend
Going by your logic, we should all follow the stuff that makes the least amount of sense to us.
Well, I never suggested this to be of any logic, it is you the professional in manipulation I believe who is claiming such nonsense
the Quran will only make sense to us if we believe it to be from God.
not really, if we believe in God then our sense does not count, what will count is Allah sense, now don?t bloody tell me that you can understand His sense in some very specific subjects, not the basics
I will give you an irrefutable example from the Quran and I hope you do the professional thing and respond to it not dodge it as you and your pals mostly do,
Now we know that fire is more superior than soil, in fact fire may be the most superior thing we know because it can destroy anything, it can even melt the steel, let?s look at the following verses
75- He said O Iblis! what prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
76- He said I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of soil.
77- He said Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away
78- And surely My curse is on you to the day of judgment.(75)
(76)
(77)
(7-> Now from the humans point of view, sure Iblis had a point, what he said makes sense in our world ?He said I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of soil?, and I damn agree with Iblis if any created entity in the whole world ordered him to prostrate to a lesser entity ?based on the substance of creation?, but his problem that the order came from Allah, therefore the creatures common sense does not count, see what the reply by Allah to Iblis strong argument ? He said Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away?, Allah didn?t even prove him wrong, He just gave him another order and not just that, Allah cursed him till the day of judgment ? And surely My curse is on you to the day of judgment.?
So it is obvious that the creatures logic does not count when it comes to Allah logic, our logic is been created by Allah from the first place and He informed us with what we need of His logics to prosper the rest will come when we prosper or when we loose
That's a fancy way of saying that the Quran doesn't make sense to you.
Keep working hard in manipulating the facts, I never said that and you will always fail to prove the contrary, I?m one of those on earth that every word in the Quran makes great sense to me, because simply I know that I?m dealing with the real God, not a man made weak, confused and non sense of a god that I created according to my desires
If everyone follows your example, the answer to every difficult question becomes "because that's what God wanted"
Show me one hard question, but first you have to show me a good notion in why that question should be asked, I hardly face a tough question regarding the Quran, I know exactly what to do, even if I decide to ignore, my decision would have been the right one as far as I?m concerned
What's worse than questioning God? it is telling God what It wants.
well, not sure what you mean by the above, however Allah told us clearly in the Quran you claim to believe in that, Allah can?t be questioned, here it is in case you over looked it
He cannot be questioned concerning what He does and they shall be questioned.
(23)
-> Obviously what you are questioning is your man made god you made according to your own desires, because the real and true God ?Allah?, can not be questioned, 2123
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peace Ahmed,
no, fire is not superior than clay or soil. You can verify that for yourself. Just light a fire, then put some soil over the flame, and you'll see that the flame will die. There is no "superior" element or being.
Fire is not a seperate thing from soil. Everything is ONE. Everything is energy.I think you are wrong when you say our sense doesn't count. Our ability to think is given to us by God so we can recognize the truth.
The thing is, if I ignore my logic, then there is no way for me to know whether what I believe in is true or not.
Our ability to think is what leads us to the truth. If we ignore that, then we are lost. And if I'm not mistaken, you are saying that we have to ignore it.I am not questioning God. I'm questioning what we believe to be God's book.
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peace waleed
But that doesn't seem fair, does it? that people before us get a book that is corruptible, and we get a book that is invincible.
The book we have, the book itself is invincible. BUT there are loads and loads of translations that are very similar to the bible (distorting the message). The people who were given the Quran were tested just like the people of the previous scriptures. There are fabrications out there. And most people w/ the quran still follow those fabrications. So neither party is really better off. Because they both fell into the same trap.
You maybe asking Why did God allow these fabrications?
Because God is the most fair. Is it fair for him to stop these people from exercising their freedom of will? How can God judge them fairly then? If he stops certain people from exercising their free will, isn't it un-fair to the other parties? That is why God allows evil to happen, because it's fair. What you do you are accounted for. We get two signs. The good and evil. If we follow good, we follow God.....
And BTW the christians who invented trinity fell astray because of their scholars. And after that people just followed whatever their parents did (how many times is that excuse mentioned in the quran) If they had studed the bible itself they'd know Jesus preached a different message.
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Mankind was obviously not born into a sophisticated society. It started at a very primative stage, as far as we can tell they followed simple rules and had very simple lives, e.g. hunter gatherers. Eventually as the science of agriculture became more widespread and villages began to be formed with stable families and tribes, society became more sophisticated. Eventually these small villages would go on to form cities and nations and then eventually these nations would meet and clash with each other. Each of these steps in society had their own unique challenges and circumstances, and each nation had its messenger sent from Allah with guidance/scripture. These guidances helped to move mankind in the proper direction for the development of society and mankind at large. Think of it as a sculptor who chips away at the marble, slowly shaping it with each strike.
So for a great period of time, these guidances were basically circumstancial and temporary, not meant to be permanent. They were for a specific society for a specific time, and the reason it was done this way was to slowly guide mankind towards the point where society reached enough sophistication and understanding to receive the full and final message. Once that stage was achieved, that message was to be preserved for all people for all time. That message (i.e. Quran) also encompassed many previous teachings but also has teachings beyond the previous ones.
The above should provide a basic framework to understand the real idea behind abrogation. I'll leave it to whoever is interested to research the matter further.
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Depends on how you look at it. I mean, is it fair that some people grow up in militant islamic home, and some grow up encouraged to think for themselves? It's always about what you do with what you've been dealt. The fairness comes in the end.
peace Tay,
I think you're right. At least about the fairness of it. peace
About good ol' Arnie, we talk to eachother on msn, but he's kinda busy these days (apparently). So a PM wouldn't be much good. -
peace
Imran,
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about the corruption of the translations of the Quran, but the book itself. And more importantly, the books that came before it. My question was why weren't the previous books preserved like the quran?Shuaib,
Can you give me an example from the Quran of something that wouldn't work 2000 years ago?
And does this mean that there will be another book in the future? -
phoenix,
i mean this with all due respect, but i only provided a putative explanation.. whoever is interested can research further. this does not mean that the Quran can change because Allah has expressly said He will protect it and the deen is complete now. I'll leave it to the sociologists to figure out the answer to your question, I just dont have the time. I've just provided a model of explanation for the facts at hand. (Of course, your question is loaded since this also greatly depends on how you interpret a verse of the Quran. Certainly, since on this forum there is a tendency to translate things in a metaphysical/philosophical sense that can impact the answer to your question).
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peace Ahmed,
Peace mate
no, fire is not superior than clay or soil.
are u sure?
You can verify that for yourself. Just light a fire, then put some soil over the flame, and you'll see that the flame will die.
LOL bro, you always amaze me with your nice tries
Well and why you want to dumb soil on fire to see what the fire will do to it?, can?t you just put it in a pot on top of the fire?
Well I can distinguish fires using a pile of cotton if I keep slamming the fire with it, or I can use a cup of water quickly
Bro be real, just hang the soil on top of the fire and see for yourself what will happen to it, and after u do that replace the two and put the fire on top of the soil and see what the soil will do to the fire, nothing I tell you, LOL
See water can put the fire down but if you put in a pot on top of the fire, the water will not be able to stand it and will be dismissed (vapour) , LOL
There is no "superior" element or being.
Really, I though Gold is one of the top elements in the chemical chain, well I bet Fire will still melt the Gold and the Gold can do nothing to the fire
Fire is not a seperate thing from soil. Everything is ONE. Everything is energy.
LOL, who said that, Einstein?
I think you are wrong when you say our sense doesn't count. Our ability to think is given to us by God so we can recognize the truth.
Well, we only need to know what Allah want us to know, now you want to know what Allah didn?t want us to know, good luck in your spiritual journey
The thing is, if I ignore my logic, then there is no way for me to know whether what I believe in is true or not.
Well, you only need to believe in Allah, not to know why He didn?t reserve the other scriptures unlike what He did with the last scripture
Our ability to think is what leads us to the truth.
I hope you stay away from conjectures though, this is the warning from Allah to all of us, but it seems you are going on your own journey
If we ignore that, then we are lost.
Sorry, lost what exactly?
And if I'm not mistaken, you are saying that we have to ignore it.
Of course, because Allah didn?t tell us why, now you think there are people out there who will know what Allah never told us about, again good luck with that sort of conjectures
I am not questioning God. I'm questioning what we believe to be God's book.
Really,
Well here is the title of your thread
? Why didn't God preserve the previous scriptures??
now please tell me, are you questioning God or not by the above?
Also your question above has nothing to do with questioning what you believe to be God?s book, because truly you don?t believe in that
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peace ahmed
? Why didn't God preserve the previous scriptures??
now please tell me, are you questioning God or not by the above?
I have wondered this before, not to question God (would never question the Most wise). Because I believe there's a reason God does everything. Since he's in no-need.
But I do believe in every fabric of my being that the Quran is from God. And nothing could prove me otherwise (Unless God wills otherwise)
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peace
are u sure?
yes, I'm sure.
LOL bro, you always amaze me with your nice tries
Well and why you want to dumb soil on fire to see what the fire will do to it?, can?t you just put it in a pot on top of the fire?
Well I can distinguish fires using a pile of cotton if I keep slamming the fire with it, or I can use a cup of water quickly
Bro be real, just hang the soil on top of the fire and see for yourself what will happen to it, and after u do that replace the two and put the fire on top of the soil and see what the soil will do to the fire, nothing I tell you, LOL
See water can put the fire down but if you put in a pot on top of the fire, the water will not be able to stand it and will be dismissed (vapour) , LOL
It might be funny, but it is true. Just light a fire, then bring a bucket of soil and cover the fire with it. If you do it properly, the soil WILL block the oxygen and the fire will die.
Really, I though Gold is one of the top elements in the chemical chain, well I bet Fire will still melt the Gold and the Gold can do nothing to the fire
what chemical chain?
Anyway, you are comparing apples to oranges. Fire is not an element. It is energy released during the reaction of oxygen with another substance. That's what fire is.LOL, who said that, Einstein?
Yes, Einstein did say that. Ever heard of E=MC^2?
Of course, because Allah didn?t tell us why, now you think there are people out there who will know what Allah never told us about, again good luck with that sort of conjectures
I don't believe God is a book. I believe God is everywhere. God talks to us through this world. Without using our own brains, the Quran is nothing, because people can misinterpret it, make the wrong conclusions about it. The Quran is just a book. The reader can make whatever he/she wants of it.
What I don't get it is this, why would God give us a book that doesn't make sense to us unless we FIRST believe it is from God?? Why didn't God preserve the previous scriptures??
now please tell me, are you questioning God or not by the above?
Also your question above has nothing to do with questioning what you believe to be God?s book, because truly you don?t believe in that
It was more of a question for everyone here than God. I just wanted to see what answers I get so I can learn. There are things that I don't understand, and I want to make things clear for myself. And even if I have to question God to follow God, I'll do it.
My question has everything to do with our beliefs. I want to be sure of what I believe, and I believe I have to ask questions to to do that.
Honestly, I mean no offence. I don't mean to attack the Quran, or anything.Also, do you believe the Jinn are made from water? because all living things are made of water?