the last part of 17:78

Wakas

I am of the view 'quran al fajr' is a synonym for 'salat al fajr'.
it does imply its apparently more important than the other regular/timed slw, which reduces the interpretation for the so-called middle slw being most important.

I would suggest cross-referencing "witness" within al-quran. as far as im aware, it can mean God even though "God witnesses all thing" as you said.

phoenix1

peace

maybe we should look at what is meant by "quran" to understand that?
how does someone "witness" a book?

Wakas

one should not assume it is referring to a book, although in this sign they are linked.

the word "quran" means "reading", thus it would translate as "dawn's reading".

unknownuser

Hello All

The word Quran does not mean reading, this is nonsense, the Arabic word for reading is Qiraa

Quran is the name of Allah last scripture

Salam all

unknownuser

Hello All

The word Quran does not mean reading, this is nonsense, the Arabic word for reading is Qiraa

Quran is the name of Allah last scripture

Salam all

Salam AhmedBahgat,all,

Yes the Quran is the name given to the revelation by the All-Mighty but I disagree with you about this nonsense you mentioned above. Al-qur'2an as a word must come from the same root as Qara2a or Qira2a otherwise how would you understand or interpret the verses 7517 and 7518 then?
Peace. Myr.

unknownuser

Hello All

The word Quran does not mean reading, this is nonsense, the Arabic word for reading is Qiraa

Quran is the name of Allah last scripture

Salam all

Salam AhmedBahgat

Salam sister

Yes the Quran is the name given to the revelation by the All-Mighty

Good so you know what Quran means then.

but I disagree with you about this nonsense you mentioned above.

Sorry, I thought you agreed that it is a name of the scripture?

Well is your name Myr really describes you?

Well I might ask what is the meaning of Myr?

I also know many killers named Mohammad, and I know a mass killer named Angel, would their names really describe them?

Also sister, what Injil means, do you know,?, or may I ask, do we really need to know the meaning of any entity name?, I guess the names are used to refer to some objects, live or not, also names can incline something but it never means that thing really because when we call objects, we call them by names not by what their names incline.

However I agree that Al Quran inclines reading but never means reading, because when you call it ?The Reading? is a contradiction to the clear Arabic word that mean reading ?Qiraa?, a logical question must be asked, ?which reading exactly you are talking about??, and I know you will come quick and say ?I mean Al Quran?, see how flawed calling it ?The reading? is?

And my final question, can you please tell me what ?Tourah and Zaboor? mean?, thank you

Al-qur'2an as a word must come from the same root as Qara2a or Qira2a

Well, I guess you are not a native Arabic speaker, am I right?

Ok let me explain something, this flawed root method is only for the school kids and non Arabic speakers not the fluent ones, as well roots are not used to figure out the meaning of entity names, this is bloody common sense

Here is one for you

?Sa La Ma? means ?to great?

Salam means ?peace?

Sillim means ?ladder?

See how the root method is flawed?

otherwise how would you understand or interpret the verses 7517 and 7518 then?
Peace. Myr.

sure

17- Surely on Us (devolves) the collecting of it and the reciting of it.

18- Therefore when We have recited it, follow its recitation.

(17)
(1

Well sister, I guess Shahroor has some influence over your understanding, I may be wrong though, but let me explain how you got 7517-18 wrong

The two verses never mentioned the Quran DIRECTLY, in the two verses the Quran was mentioned 4 times using something in the Arabic grammar called ?Damir?, for masculine we use the damir ?h? and for feminine we use the damir ?ha?, the Quran is masculine therefore the ?h? was used to refer to it 4 times in 7517-18, here is the 4 times the Quran was mentioned indirectly in these two verse using the masculine damir ?h?

, ?Jamaahu?, i.e ?Collecting IT?, i.e. Collecting the Quran
, ?Quranahu?, i.e. ?Reciting IT?, i.e. ?Reciting the Quran?, now it is not my problem that non arabic speakers see similar letters to the name ?Quran? that clearly means reciting in the context and they bloody conclude that it should be the same as the name Quran, this is really funny, let me prove it to you, replacing the damir with what it refers to is very common technique in the Arabic grammar, now let?s replace the damir ?h? with both ?Al Quran? and ?The Reading?, and we will see for ourselves which one makes sense to a child

A) We replace the damir ?h? with ?Al Quran?

?Reciting Al Quran?, yeh that makes sense to a child

B) We replace the damir ?h? with ?The Reading?

?Reciting The Reading?, Holy moly, what reading exactly is been recited?

Now if you ask a child what to do with a book, he will quickly tell you, read it, so calling it Quran to mean it is a book for read is absolutely uselss piece of info and you want me to believe that the God meant that non sense?, well me as a civil engineer and a native Arabic speaker can?t buy it sister, I?m sorry

, ?Qaranaah?, i.e. ?Recite IT?, i.e. ?Recite Al Quran?, the same for no 2 apply
, ?Quranahu?, i.e. ?Reciting IT?, i.e. ?Reciting the Quran?, the same for no 2 apply

So sister, for you to use another word that was not referring to the Quran and was clearly a word to indicate an action to Al Quran that was mentioned 4 times using the damir ?h?, is very weak argument and it shows your lack of the Arabic grammar

Take care sister

unknownuser

peace

I would suggest cross-referencing "witness" within al-quran. as far as im aware, it can mean God even though "God witnesses all thing" as you said.

Yes actually I take that back, I believe this to be God. I think the last part of this verse is for us. To let us know the importance of reading the quran at dawn.

unknownuser

Salam Brother, it would have been enough for me that you stick to the subject and the verses I mentioned. No need for you to link me to Shahrour or to ask me whether I am an Arabic native. Please disregard my previous message. Peace. Myr.

Hello All

The word Quran does not mean reading, this is nonsense, the Arabic word for reading is Qiraa

Quran is the name of Allah last scripture

Salam all

Salam AhmedBahgat

Salam sister

Yes the Quran is the name given to the revelation by the All-Mighty

Good so you know what Quran means then.

but I disagree with you about this nonsense you mentioned above.

Sorry, I thought you agreed that it is a name of the scripture?

Well is your name Myr really describes you?

Well I might ask what is the meaning of Myr?

I also know many killers named Mohammad, and I know a mass killer named Angel, would their names really describe them?

Also sister, what Injil means, do you know,?, or may I ask, do we really need to know the meaning of any entity name?, I guess the names are used to refer to some objects, live or not, also names can incline something but it never means that thing really because when we call objects, we call them by names not by what their names incline.

However I agree that Al Quran inclines reading but never means reading, because when you call it ?The Reading? is a contradiction to the clear Arabic word that mean reading ?Qiraa?, a logical question must be asked, ?which reading exactly you are talking about??, and I know you will come quick and say ?I mean Al Quran?, see how flawed calling it ?The reading? is?

And my final question, can you please tell me what ?Tourah and Zaboor? mean?, thank you

Al-qur'2an as a word must come from the same root as Qara2a or Qira2a

Well, I guess you are not a native Arabic speaker, am I right?

Ok let me explain something, this flawed root method is only for the school kids and non Arabic speakers not the fluent ones, as well roots are not used to figure out the meaning of entity names, this is bloody common sense

Here is one for you

?Sa La Ma? means ?to great?

Salam means ?peace?

Sillim means ?ladder?

See how the root method is flawed?

otherwise how would you understand or interpret the verses 7517 and 7518 then?
Peace. Myr.

sure

17- Surely on Us (devolves) the collecting of it and the reciting of it.

18- Therefore when We have recited it, follow its recitation.

(17)
(1

Well sister, I guess Shahroor has some influence over your understanding, I may be wrong though, but let me explain how you got 7517-18 wrong

The two verses never mentioned the Quran DIRECTLY, in the two verses the Quran was mentioned 4 times using something in the Arabic grammar called ?Damir?, for masculine we use the damir ?h? and for feminine we use the damir ?ha?, the Quran is masculine therefore the ?h? was used to refer to it 4 times in 7517-18, here is the 4 times the Quran was mentioned indirectly in these two verse using the masculine damir ?h?

, ?Jamaahu?, i.e ?Collecting IT?, i.e. Collecting the Quran
, ?Quranahu?, i.e. ?Reciting IT?, i.e. ?Reciting the Quran?, now it is not my problem that non arabic speakers see similar letters to the name ?Quran? that clearly means reciting in the context and they bloody conclude that it should be the same as the name Quran, this is really funny, let me prove it to you, replacing the damir with what it refers to is very common technique in the Arabic grammar, now let?s replace the damir ?h? with both ?Al Quran? and ?The Reading?, and we will see for ourselves which one makes sense to a child

A) We replace the damir ?h? with ?Al Quran?

?Reciting Al Quran?, yeh that makes sense to a child

B) We replace the damir ?h? with ?The Reading?

?Reciting The Reading?, Holy moly, what reading exactly is been recited?

Now if you ask a child what to do with a book, he will quickly tell you, read it, so calling it Quran to mean it is a book for read is absolutely uselss piece of info and you want me to believe that the God meant that non sense?, well me as a civil engineer and a native Arabic speaker can?t buy it sister, I?m sorry

, ?Qaranaah?, i.e. ?Recite IT?, i.e. ?Recite Al Quran?, the same for no 2 apply
, ?Quranahu?, i.e. ?Reciting IT?, i.e. ?Reciting the Quran?, the same for no 2 apply

So sister, for you to use another word that was not referring to the Quran and was clearly a word to indicate an action to Al Quran that was mentioned 4 times using the damir ?h?, is very weak argument and it shows your lack of the Arabic grammar

Take care sister

nemowati

Salaam

You are correct about "witness" a book. It is implying the recitation of Qur'aan but I do not know why they do not translated correctly so that the readers will know when they read that verse.

peace

maybe we should look at what is meant by "quran" to understand that?
how does someone "witness" a book?

unknownuser

Salam Brother, it would have been enough for me that you stick to the subject and the verses I mentioned. No need for you to link me to Shahrour or to ask me whether I am an Arabic native. Please disregard my previous message. Peace. Myr.

I'm sorry if my comment has offended you

I can't see anything offensive in it, what I meant that some people when they like others they just take what they say for granted

now I want people to take what I say without really liking me, and if they do then in this case what I say makes great sense

Sorry again sister

Salam

Samia

Salam all

Ahmed Bahgat wrote

Hello All

The word Quran does not mean reading, this is nonsense, the Arabic word for reading is Qiraa

Quran is the name of Allah last scripture

But it seems that you forgot that you wrote this, then you wrote

, ?Quranahu?, i.e. ?Reciting IT?, i.e. ?Reciting the Quran?,

First, verbs do not necessarily have one verbal noun (qiraa'a is a noun and a verbal noun). The verb "qara'a" has THREE verbal nouns qiraa'a, qar' and qur'aan. Although I am against translating names, hence against translating The Qur'aan, yet this does not mean that the Qur'aan does not mean "the reading" or "the collection" (because qur'aan is a verbal noun of another verb qarana to bring together). Allah would not call His book The Qur'aan for nothing, but in order that whenever we just mention its name, we remember that it's a command that we should read it and contemplate. No wonder that the first revealed verse is "Iqra'".

However, if non-native speakers want to translate its meaning, what is the harm? Don't they translate the attributes of Allah (The Merciful, Allah is Greater...etc). We native speakers were blessed by the needless to translate words; at least we should not frown upon those who want to understand, and thus are far better than us.

And BTW, Shahrour is not an advocate of translating the name of The Qur'aan either. He only explained the meaning, but nowhere in his four books and many articles did he use the name (The Reading) instead of the Qur'aan.

unknownuser

Salam all

Ahmed Bahgat wrote

Hello All

The word Quran does not mean reading, this is nonsense, the Arabic word for reading is Qiraa

Quran is the name of Allah last scripture

But it seems that you forgot that you wrote this, then you wrote

, Quranahu, i.e. Reciting IT, i.e. Reciting the Quran

Hi all

I don?t really get your point, the word Quranahu is another word that referring to the Quran,, i.e. Reciting the Quran, not Reciting the Reading, the second does not make sense

May I ask which reading exactly you are talking about?

And how you suggest that I forgot what I said, if what I said that the word Quran in that verse is not referring to the Quran, it is referring to Reciting the Quran, there are a damir that is referring the Quran, now I don?t get it, have you ever heard that there words with the same exact letters? And why you want to use the meaning of the first word to refer to the damir ?h? ?Al Quran? which is considered a second word btw, you know words in Arabic also consist of one letters

First, verbs do not necessarily have one verbal noun (qiraa'a is a noun and a verbal noun). The verb "qara'a" has THREE verbal nouns qiraa'a, qar' and qur'aan. Although I am against translating names, hence against translating The Qur'aan,

yet this does not mean that the Qur'aan does not mean "the reading"

this is really irrelevant, the word Quran never used in Arabic to refer to the reading, there are another word called Qiraa, but if Allah used it he only used as an action that is done to an entity named Quran, the arabs on the other hand never used Quran to refer ro the word reading, NEVER EVER HEARD OF IT

or "the collection" (because qur'aan is a verbal noun of another verb qarana to bring together). Allah would not call His book The Qur'aan for nothing,

oh yeh we need to know that a book is for read, good point you have

but in order that whenever we just mention its name, we remember that it's a command that we should read it and contemplate. No wonder that the first revealed verse is "Iqra'".

I?m sorry there is also an order to hear it well, would that mean Quran means The hearing?

Do you that verse that orders us just to listen well to it?, and sorry sister, how about those who can?t read Arabic?, not to menti0on those who can?t read at all

The main objective of the Quran is to follow it, not to bloody read it, we know millions who read it and understand nothing in it nor they follow it

However, if non-native speakers want to translate its meaning, what is the harm?

The harm is nothing but deception, that?s all, because Quran to mean reading in Arabic just does not exit, it is a name 100% and when we call it we call it Quran not reading

Don't they translate the attributes of Allah (The Merciful, Allah is Greater...etc).

Not sure if the attributes even translated right, well it is called attributes and possibly it needs translating for non Arabic speakers, however native Arabic speaker don?t even translate the attributes

Now I?m puzzled, if Al Quran is the name of a book in front of their eyes why the hell they need to translate that?

So when I say Quran, everyone knows that it is that book named Quran, not the action called reading, see how flawed it is?

We native speakers were blessed by the needless to translate words; at least we should not frown upon those who want to understand, and thus are far better than us.

Excuse me sister, I?m responding to those who insist on misleading others without any solid knowledge in Arabic, now my duty is to expose those, they donlt want to learn, they only follow their ego

Now please when you say better than us, can you please exclude me from your group?, thanks

And BTW, Shahrour is not an advocate of translating the name of The Qur'aan either.

Good to know that is why I said I may be wrong of you read my comment well

He only explained the meaning,

Names cannot translated, this is bloody common sense, I guess he is trying to be smart but the problem is this

Reading is not associated only with the Quran, rather Hearing as well
Reading is vague and does explicitly refer to the Quran
A book is simply known to a child that it is for reading

Therefore for him to waste his time on that nonsense, is really laughable to be honest, now he should also tell us what Injil, Tourah and zaboor means?

I guess they are names to identify some books, donlt you agree?

but nowhere in his four books and many articles did he use the name (The Reading) instead of the Qur'aan.

Good to know, I thought he does like many who do it hear, thinking they look smart

Samia

Hi all

I don?t really get your point, the word Quranahu is another word that referring to the Quran,, i.e. Reciting the Quran, not Reciting the Reading, the second does not make sense

I don't get your point. Do you mean that "qur'aan" meaning "recite" is only used by Allah, and is not part of the Arabic language? I mean, we should not say that in Arabic "qur'aan" means to recite/read?

I?m sorry there is also an order to hear it well, would that mean Quran means The hearing?

Do you that verse that orders us just to listen well to it?, and sorry sister, how about those who can?t read Arabic?, not to menti0on those who can?t read at all

The main objective of the Quran is to follow it, not to bloody read it, we know millions who read it and understand nothing in it nor they follow it

How can we be ordered to hear? Hear what if no one is already reading it?
7204 "So, when the Qur'aan is recited, listen to it and be silent that you may receive mercy". Listening is dependent on reciting. We are ordered to listen if and when the Qur'aan is recited. We are ordered to read/recite it without any condition.

Those millions you mention do not read the Qur'aan, because they do not have time to, after having read volumes and volumes of heritage books, or if they read at all. And also, how can you follow it if you do not read it? First step read it youy may, or may not follow it. Do not read it and you will definitely not follow it.

Excuse me sister, I?m responding to those who insist on misleading others without any solid knowledge in Arabic, now my duty is to expose those, they donlt want to learn, they only follow their ego

Now please when you say better than us, can you please exclude me from your group?, thanks

Frankly I do not know whom you mean. I do not stereotype people; and those who have no "solid" knowledge of Arabic are the most in need of explaining to them patiently, without being outrageous. If they disturb you, do not respond to them (say good things or say nothing).And yes, they are better than US, whether they sought Islam and chose it (we were born Muslims), or whether they are trying to learn Arabic. Put yourself in their shoes, would you have gone that far? I do not think I would have.

And please keep your nerves cool. No need for the anger that makes you write inappropriate words that do not look like you. We are all trying to understand. No one says that they are the only source of truth.

unknownuser

Hi all

I don?t really get your point, the word Quranahu is another word that referring to the Quran,, i.e. Reciting the Quran, not Reciting the Reading, the second does not make sense

I don't get your point. Do you mean that "qur'aan" meaning "recite" is only used by Allah, and is not part of the Arabic language? I mean, we should not say that in Arabic "qur'aan" means to recite/read?

Good morning

Good that you made sense out of the many typos I had

Exactly, the word Quran never ever taught at Arabic schools to mean Qiraa, how come and they have another word for it?

I?m not saying that there is never two words to mean the same thing what I mean that If it was common before the Quran then I will agree with you, however the word is unique and was chosen by Allah himself, no wonder the Arabs don?t know it and no wonder they still never teach the kids that it means reading, bearing in mind that this is always the case with names, some parents even invent new names ?never known before? for their children

What they teach the kids in arab schools is this, The Quran is the name of the last message from Allah and they should read it as any other book that is only for read really, I don?t think people consider books as a source to make Qaratis

Also in arab schools, Reading is an important subject, and you will never see them calling that subject ?Quran? rather ?Qiraa?

I?m sorry there is also an order to hear it well, would that mean Quran means The hearing?

Do you that verse that orders us just to listen well to it?, and sorry sister, how about those who can?t read Arabic?, not to menti0on those who can?t read at all

The main objective of the Quran is to follow it, not to bloody read it, we know millions who read it and understand nothing in it nor they follow it

How can we be ordered to hear? Hear what if no one is already reading it?

I agree, but what I?m saying is Reading the Quran can?t be for everyone, those who can read Arabic well are the most qualified to read it then they can explain it to the others, what reading will do to you if you don?t understand what you read?

7204 "So, when the Qur'aan is recited, listen to it and be silent that you may receive mercy". Listening is dependent on reciting.

good then reading is not explicitly related to the Quran as a requirement to those who follow it, because others can listen to it and follow it without reading it especially if they don?t know how to read

We are ordered to listen if and when the Qur'aan is recited. We are ordered to read/recite it without any condition.

Of course there is a condition, simply that you understand what you read (Yatadabbar), this is not a comic book

Those millions you mention do not read the Qur'aan, because they do not have time to,

How do you know that?

after having read volumes and volumes of heritage books, or if they read at all. And also,

again, how do you that?

how can you follow it if you do not read it?

by listening to it then seeking knowledge for the meaning from those who have knowledge

First step read it youy may, or may not follow it. Do not read it and you will definitely not follow it.

Again how about those who can?t read, will they miss out and head to hell?

Excuse me sister, I?m responding to those who insist on misleading others without any solid knowledge in Arabic, now my duty is to expose those, they donlt want to learn, they only follow their ego

Now please when you say better than us, can you please exclude me from your group?, thanks

Frankly I do not know whom you mean.

Good, let?s keep it at that then

I do not stereotype people;

Neither do I, my comment was general and not direct to specific persons by name regarding those who manipulate the Arabic meanings

and those who have no "solid" knowledge of Arabic are the most in need of explaining to them patiently,

good, but only if they drop their ego, but see how you answered yourself?, those who don?t know Arabic, how they can read Arabic please?

without being outrageous.

who is outrages, do you mean me?

If they disturb you,

Sorry sister, no one on this web site caused any disturbance to me yet

do not respond to them

well, I?m responding to the public really, or should I say my comments are more to the public, the public must also read the other side of the story and they can make up their mind

(say good things or say nothing).

well, I guess it is up to me to say what I want, however I always say what suits the circumstances when I discuss religions

Please sister, can you save the these lessons, I?m 41 years old father of two, thank you as I don?t need it, but I will pass your advices to mu kids

And yes, they are better than US,

And again, who is us? Are you talking on behalf of all arab Muslims?

If yes, then please take me out of your non sensible statement.

whether they sought Islam and chose it (we wer/e born Muslims),

excuse me, Islam is not by birth

or whether they are trying to learn Arabic.

good if they try, I encourage them to do it however, if you learn new language at old age there will be no way to master its secrets and they will still need the help of a fluent Arabic speaker as I always do with my English

Put yourself in their shoes,

If I do, then I will drop my ego first and seek knowledge from those who have it

would you have gone that far?

I don?t know because I have not been there

I do not think I would have.

Good, thank Allah then that you were born Muslim because it seems if that was not the case you would have gone astray

And please keep your nerves cool.

It is always cool, how do you that it isn?t?

No need for the anger that makes you write inappropriate words that do not look like you.

Sorry sister, what is the inappropriate words exactly that I used?

We are all trying to understand. No one says that they are the only source of truth.

well, others try to manipulate as well, and the na?ve will be lost between these two groups

Salam

warner

Peace be upon you

So we learn from our Arabic learned brothers and sisters that there is no meaning for the word Quran and it is just the name given by God to the last message but may be coincidence, the word is quite similar to the words for ?read? or ?reading? or ?recitation?.

Also , does the Quraan refer to it as the book anywhere ?

Brother Ahmed ,

You keep asking the meaning for injil and zaboor . Although there are no meanings for these words in Arabic, maybe there are meanings for these in the languages they were revealed. Did you check in Hebrew and Aramaic.

ayman

Peace Warner, all,

You keep asking the meaning for injil and zaboor . Although there are no meanings for these words in Arabic, maybe there are meanings for these in the languages they were revealed. Did you check in Hebrew and Aramaic.

The word Injil is generally considered to be borrowed by Arabic from the Greek word , and it literally means "good news". In the great reading, we are told for example that Jesus gave the good news of the future messenger Ahmed (616).

The word "torah" is borrowed by Arabic from Hebrew. While it is wrongly translated into "law", in reality the common noun "torah" in Hebrew literally means "teachings" or "learning".

The word "zabur" is borrowed by Arabic from Sabaic, a South Arabian dialect. This word, as a common noun, means "a written document on soft material". As a proper name, it denotes a kind of South Arabian script called Zabour script, which is a variant of the Musnad script. But while the Musnad script is a monumental script that is used mostly for engraving on solid surfaces such as rock, the Zabour script was used for writing on soft materials.

I don't think that it is a coincidence that the great reading uses a South Arabian word to describe the book of David. I think that most likely David and Solomon were near the kingdom of Saba'a in the region of South Arabia or nearby across the straights of Eden in Ethiopia (the Ethiopic language is in fact one of the South Semitic languages like Sabaic) as opposed to Northern Arabia/Palestine. Interestingly, we are told in the great reading that the Hoopoe came from somewhere not far (2722) and that David and Solomon were in a mountainous region that is rich in iron ore (3410). All this fits with the region of Ethiopia and not Palestine.

At any rate, unfortunately, the above common nouns have lost their meanings and became meaningless labels (i.e., proper names). This is what sectarians have also done to the word "quran". They turned it into a meaningless proper name so that they hide its true meaning. So now even the majority of native Arabic speakers don't know its meaning.

So we learn from our Arabic learned brothers and sisters that there is no meaning for the word Quran and it is just the name given by God to the last message but may be coincidence, the word is quite similar to the words for ?read? or ?reading? or ?recitation?.

Quite the contrary, all the learned brothers and sisters know that the word "quran" has a meaning and it is not just some meaningless proper name.

Sister Samia already kindly pointed out that the word "quran" is a normal part of the Arabic language. It was not an invented proper name that the Arabs never heard before. The intensified form "quraan" (weight fa3lan) is very common in Arabic and there are hundreds (if not thousands) of examples of this form. For example, "sultan" (intense authority), "furqan" (intense separation), etc. This is how an Arab hearing 1778 for the first time 14 centuries ago would have understood it.

Sister Myr already thoughtfully pointed out the fact that the word "quaran" is used in 7517 and 7518 with the addition of the possessive "haa marbouta" ("quraanuh&quot to mean "its reading". This is a clear indisputable fact because "when we have read it follow its Quran" is meaningless nonsense while "when we have read it follow its reading" makes perfect sense.

This fact is evident in that the word "quran" is used in the great reading itself to describe readings other than the one given to us by The God. For example, 1331 is describing a hypothetical reading that is certainly not the one we have. Similarly, 1788 and 1015 use the term "quran" to describe false man-made readings that are certainly not the one we have. Also, 4144 uses the term to describe a hypothetical reading in a foreign language, which is certainly not the one we have.

Also, there are many passages that point to "this reading" ("hatha al-quran&quot to specify it. Such pointing devices would not have been used had the word "quran" been a proper name. For example, see 1037, 123, 179, 1789, 5677, 1741, 619, 1854, 2530, 2776, 3058, 3431, 3927, 4126, 4331, 5921.

There are also many passages that use the word "quran" in the common form, i.e. "a quran". This is further confirms the indisputable fact that "quran" is a common noun. For example, 151, 17106, 3669, 721, 8521, 122, 20113, 3928, 411-3, 4144, 427, 433.

For example, notice how PICKTHAL translates 151

PICKTHAL Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verses of the Scripture and a plain Reading.

He did this because he knows the indisputable fact that "a Quran" is pure nonsense. It is like saying "a Ayman". Such constructs are not used with proper names.

Notice also how all translators translated 1778

017.078
YUSUFALI Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.
PICKTHAL Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of night, and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn is ever witnessed.
SHAKIR Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.

They all translated "quran" as "reading/recitation" except Pickthal. However, Pickthal had to add (the recital of) in parenthesis because he and all translators know for certain the indisputable fact that "the morning's Quran" is pure nonsense. It is just like saying "the morning's Ayman" (or any proper name) it is meaningless gibberish.

Of course the above indisputable facts are not taught in Arabic language lessons at schools in Arab countries. The majority of Arabic language curriculum in Arab countries focuses on mechanical memorization of spoon fed information and discourages critical thinking. So if a native Arabic speaker defies common sense and the above indisputable facts because they are "native Arabic speakers" or "were top Arabic students" then this proves nothing except ignorant arrogance and of course the desperate need for reform in the educational system of Arab countries.

Peace,

Ayman

adley

Salaam Ayman,

I would just like to thank you for the last post, especially on "zabur". D
Keep up the excellent work bro.

=adley=

ayman

Peace brother Adley,

I would just like to thank you for the last post, especially on "zabur".
Keep up the excellent work bro.

You are too kind brother. I don't deserve any credit except for mistakes. If all the brothers and sisters here didn't contribute to the thread and if Ahmed Bahgat didn't ask the question and Warner didn't focus on this important question then I wouldn't have tried to answer. So they deserve more credit. Ultimately, all thanks is due to The God because He guides to the truth.

Peace,

Ayman

warner

Brother Ayman

Peace be upon you

Thank you for the excellent eye opener.

Do you think ?The Recitation? seems a better word than ?Reading? to describe the Quraan since recitation has more emphasis on reciting/reading from memory but also can be from a written document or a book but reading denotes more towards reading a written document than from memeory.

unknownuser

peace

is/are reading/recitation the same thing?

Reading To utter /render aloud; To examine and grasp the meaning of

Recitation To repeat / utter aloud. Key prefix re. The re in reading is not a prefix, its a whole word.

I am just saying that if the arabic says 'reading' translate it that way, if it means 'reciting' translate it that way, but i dont think they are the same