the last part of 17:78
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Peace Warner, all,
You keep asking the meaning for injil and zaboor . Although there are no meanings for these words in Arabic, maybe there are meanings for these in the languages they were revealed. Did you check in Hebrew and Aramaic.
The word Injil is generally considered to be borrowed by Arabic from the Greek word , and it literally means "good news". In the great reading, we are told for example that Jesus gave the good news of the future messenger Ahmed (616).
The word "torah" is borrowed by Arabic from Hebrew. While it is wrongly translated into "law", in reality the common noun "torah" in Hebrew literally means "teachings" or "learning".
The word "zabur" is borrowed by Arabic from Sabaic, a South Arabian dialect. This word, as a common noun, means "a written document on soft material". As a proper name, it denotes a kind of South Arabian script called Zabour script, which is a variant of the Musnad script. But while the Musnad script is a monumental script that is used mostly for engraving on solid surfaces such as rock, the Zabour script was used for writing on soft materials.
I don't think that it is a coincidence that the great reading uses a South Arabian word to describe the book of David. I think that most likely David and Solomon were near the kingdom of Saba'a in the region of South Arabia or nearby across the straights of Eden in Ethiopia (the Ethiopic language is in fact one of the South Semitic languages like Sabaic) as opposed to Northern Arabia/Palestine. Interestingly, we are told in the great reading that the Hoopoe came from somewhere not far (2722) and that David and Solomon were in a mountainous region that is rich in iron ore (3410). All this fits with the region of Ethiopia and not Palestine.
At any rate, unfortunately, the above common nouns have lost their meanings and became meaningless labels (i.e., proper names). This is what sectarians have also done to the word "quran". They turned it into a meaningless proper name so that they hide its true meaning. So now even the majority of native Arabic speakers don't know its meaning.
So we learn from our Arabic learned brothers and sisters that there is no meaning for the word Quran and it is just the name given by God to the last message but may be coincidence, the word is quite similar to the words for ?read? or ?reading? or ?recitation?.
Quite the contrary, all the learned brothers and sisters know that the word "quran" has a meaning and it is not just some meaningless proper name.
Sister Samia already kindly pointed out that the word "quran" is a normal part of the Arabic language. It was not an invented proper name that the Arabs never heard before. The intensified form "quraan" (weight fa3lan) is very common in Arabic and there are hundreds (if not thousands) of examples of this form. For example, "sultan" (intense authority), "furqan" (intense separation), etc. This is how an Arab hearing 1778 for the first time 14 centuries ago would have understood it.
Sister Myr already thoughtfully pointed out the fact that the word "quaran" is used in 7517 and 7518 with the addition of the possessive "haa marbouta" ("quraanuh" to mean "its reading". This is a clear indisputable fact because "when we have read it follow its Quran" is meaningless nonsense while "when we have read it follow its reading" makes perfect sense.
This fact is evident in that the word "quran" is used in the great reading itself to describe readings other than the one given to us by The God. For example, 1331 is describing a hypothetical reading that is certainly not the one we have. Similarly, 1788 and 1015 use the term "quran" to describe false man-made readings that are certainly not the one we have. Also, 4144 uses the term to describe a hypothetical reading in a foreign language, which is certainly not the one we have.
Also, there are many passages that point to "this reading" ("hatha al-quran" to specify it. Such pointing devices would not have been used had the word "quran" been a proper name. For example, see 1037, 123, 179, 1789, 5677, 1741, 619, 1854, 2530, 2776, 3058, 3431, 3927, 4126, 4331, 5921.
There are also many passages that use the word "quran" in the common form, i.e. "a quran". This is further confirms the indisputable fact that "quran" is a common noun. For example, 151, 17106, 3669, 721, 8521, 122, 20113, 3928, 411-3, 4144, 427, 433.
For example, notice how PICKTHAL translates 151
PICKTHAL Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verses of the Scripture and a plain Reading.
He did this because he knows the indisputable fact that "a Quran" is pure nonsense. It is like saying "a Ayman". Such constructs are not used with proper names.
Notice also how all translators translated 1778
017.078
YUSUFALI Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.
PICKTHAL Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of night, and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn is ever witnessed.
SHAKIR Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.They all translated "quran" as "reading/recitation" except Pickthal. However, Pickthal had to add (the recital of) in parenthesis because he and all translators know for certain the indisputable fact that "the morning's Quran" is pure nonsense. It is just like saying "the morning's Ayman" (or any proper name) it is meaningless gibberish.
Of course the above indisputable facts are not taught in Arabic language lessons at schools in Arab countries. The majority of Arabic language curriculum in Arab countries focuses on mechanical memorization of spoon fed information and discourages critical thinking. So if a native Arabic speaker defies common sense and the above indisputable facts because they are "native Arabic speakers" or "were top Arabic students" then this proves nothing except ignorant arrogance and of course the desperate need for reform in the educational system of Arab countries.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace brother Adley,
I would just like to thank you for the last post, especially on "zabur".
Keep up the excellent work bro.You are too kind brother. I don't deserve any credit except for mistakes. If all the brothers and sisters here didn't contribute to the thread and if Ahmed Bahgat didn't ask the question and Warner didn't focus on this important question then I wouldn't have tried to answer. So they deserve more credit. Ultimately, all thanks is due to The God because He guides to the truth.
Peace,
Ayman
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Brother Ayman
Peace be upon you
Thank you for the excellent eye opener.
Do you think ?The Recitation? seems a better word than ?Reading? to describe the Quraan since recitation has more emphasis on reciting/reading from memory but also can be from a written document or a book but reading denotes more towards reading a written document than from memeory.
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peace
is/are reading/recitation the same thing?
Reading To utter /render aloud; To examine and grasp the meaning of
Recitation To repeat / utter aloud. Key prefix re. The re in reading is not a prefix, its a whole word.
I am just saying that if the arabic says 'reading' translate it that way, if it means 'reciting' translate it that way, but i dont think they are the same
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Peace be upon you
Peace bro
So we learn from our Arabic learned brothers and sisters that there is no meaning for the word Quran and it is just the name given by God to the last message
As far as the Arabic language is concerned, the word Quran is NEVER EVER used to represent ?Reading?, we use another word and it is also ?Lugha Arabia Fusha?, this word is ?Qiraa?, it does not look nor sound like Quran
Therefore from Al Quran we can clearly see that it is a title given to this book and surely the word confused the Arabs because it didn?t exist before to represent reading
but may be coincidence, the word is quite similar to the words for ?read? or ?reading? or ?recitation?.
as I stated the word Quran incline reading but never ever means reading
Also , does the Quraan refer to it as the book anywhere ?
Yeh the two words together, ?Quran and Book?
These are verses of the Qur'an,-a book that makes (things) clear;
(1)
See, it is referring to the Quran as a book, I may add that the last part is translated wrong by Y A, because ?Kitab Mubin? does not mean ?a book that makes things clear?, this is 100% wrong, it means ?an obvious book?
Brother Ahmed ,
You keep asking the meaning for injil and zaboor .
Becsuae it is a very important questions and ironically many can?t see the click,
If all three books are sent by Allah, then all three books MUST BE READ , therefore why one book means reading and the other two don?t mean reading?
Unless someone will come and say ?Injil?= ?Torah?=?Zaboor?=?Quran?= Reading
Do you get my point bro?
Well, it does not make sense that one of the messages of Allah is for reading and the others are not, it is just ridiculous especially all messages came on the form of a book, and a child knows very well that a book is for a read.
Although there are no meanings for these words in Arabic,
Possibly they mean ?Reaing?, I really don?t know that is why I?m asking those why they don?t seek the meaning of these other books names?
maybe there are meanings for these in the languages they were revealed. Did you check in Hebrew and Aramaic.
No I didn?t because I speak non of these languages, so I can be fooled easily, however if anyone found the meanings, I?m crossing my fingers that they also mean reading and if this is the case I will concede that Quran means reading
however if they don?t mean reading then I rest my case for good
Cheers
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The word Injil is generally considered to be borrowed by Arabic from the Greek word , and it literally means "good news". In the great reading, we are told for example that Jesus gave the good news of the future messenger Ahmed (616).
The word "torah" is borrowed by Arabic from Hebrew. While it is wrongly translated into "law", in reality the common noun "torah" in Hebrew literally means "teachings" or "learning".
The word "zabur" is borrowed by Arabic from Sabaic, a South Arabian dialect. This word, as a common noun, means "a written document on soft material". As a proper name, it denotes a kind of South Arabian script called Zabour script, which is a variant of the Musnad script. But while the Musnad script is a monumental script that is used mostly for engraving on solid surfaces such as rock, the Zabour script was used for writing on soft materials.
Salam Ayman
so the three words "Injil, Torah, and Zaboor" don't mean reading,
how this can make sense bro, aren't they also books sent to us by Allah for reading?
or the people of the past didn't need to reed these books from Allah?
Cheerts
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Peace be upon you
I was wondering whether there is a difference between the earlier revelations ( Zabur, Torah and Injil ) and the Quraan, with relation to Quraan being a book. Followers of messages other than the Quraan are referred to as ?people of the book?.
I believe according to the below verses there is a marked difference between the meaning of words Zabur, Torah , Injil and Quraan . Also according to these verses all the revelations do not have to be related to reading or reciting as the Quraan.
Zabur/Psalms - David
21 105
Yusuf Ali Before this We wrote in the Psalms after the Message (given to Moses) My servants the righteous shall inherit the earth."
Wa laqad katabna_ fiz zabu_ri mim ba'diz zikri an nal arda yaritsuha_ iba_diyas sa_lihu_n
Torah - Moses
7 145
Yusuf Ali And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters both commanding and explaining all things (and said) "take and hold these with firmness and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts soon shall I show you the homes of the wicked (how they lie desolate)."
Wa katabna_ lahu_ fil alwa_hi min kulli syai'im mau'izataw wa tafsilal likulli syai'(in), fa khuzha_ bi quwwatiw wa'mur qaumaka ya'khuzu_ bi ahsaniha_, sa urikum da_ral fa_siqin(a).
7 154
Yusuf Ali When the anger of Moses was appeased he took up the tablets in the writing thereon was guidance and mercy for such as fear their Lord.
Wa lamma_ sakata 'am mu_sal gadabu akhazal alwa_h(a), wa fi nuskhatiha_ hudaw wa rahmatul lillazina hum lirabbihim yarhabu_n(a).
Injil/Gospel - Jesus
3 48
Yusuf Ali "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom the Law and the Gospel.
Wa yu'allimuhul kita_ba wal hikmata wat taura_ta wal injil(a).
Do above verses show that zabur , torah and injil were revealed in different ways than the Quraan ? ( The Quraan commands in 961 ? Read in the name of thy lord? )
Also in some translations Kitab is translated as law of decrees or law.
Even in 348 above kitab is mentioned separately other than hikmah/wisdom, torah and the gospel. So what does Kitab mean in the above verse?Suhuf and kitab
87 18
Yusuf Ali And this is in the Books of the earliest (Revelations)
Ina ha_za_ lafis suhufil u_la_87 ; 19
Yusuf Ali The Books of Abraham and Moses.
Suhufi ibra_hima wa mu_sa_Is Suhuf another word for book or is there a different meaning to kitab ?
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Peace be upon you
I raised a question earlier between reading and recitation.
Also, does the Quraan have to be a book?
Although the form of being a physical book is important for preserving the message the unique feature about the Quraan is, it can be memorized . There are 4 year olds and 100 year olds who will recite the whole Quraan word to word from memory. There are millions who memorized the Quraan in such way from the time it was revealed to date. It must be one of the ways how the last message is preserved by God . Most non Muslims do not know this feature and they will be indeed surprised to see thousands of 4 year olds reciting the whole Quraan word to word by memory. I believe other religious books do not have a feature of memorizing. Do you think that there is a connection between memorizing reciting and the name ?Quraan? given to the last message?
I believe the Quraan does not have to be described as a book like the earlier revelations. Most of us read the Quraan on-line and that is not in the form of a physical book. Also in Tape, MP3 format, CD or any other storage, physical , electronic or in virtual or human memory the Quraan can exist in the same way it was reveled.
What ever the form it may exist we are instructed to read it and may be this feature makes it different from other revelations by its use and its preservation. And this I belive can be the reason zabur=Injil=Torah does not not have to mean read or "the Recitation"
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Peace be upon you
I raised a question earlier between reading and recitation.
Also, does the Quraan have to be a book?
Although the form of being a physical book is important for preserving the message the unique feature about the Quraan is, it can be memorized . There are 4 year olds and 100 year olds who will recite the whole Quraan word to word from memory. There are millions who memorized the Quraan in such way from the time it was revealed to date. It must be one of the ways how the last message is preserved by God . Most non Muslims do not know this feature and they will be indeed surprised to see thousands of 4 year olds reciting the whole Quraan word to word by memory. I believe other religious books do not have a feature of memorizing. Do you think that there is a connection between memorizing reciting and the name Quraan given to the last message?
I believe the Quraan does not have to be described as a book like the earlier revelations. Most of us read the Quraan on-line and that is not in the form of a physical book. Also in Tape, MP3 format, CD or any other storage, physical , electronic or in virtual or human memory the Quraan can exist in the same way it was reveled.
What ever the form it may exist we are instructed to read it and may be this feature makes it different from other revelations by its use and its preservation. And this I belive can be the reason zabur=Injil=Torah does not not have to mean read or "the Recitation"
well
a book does not have to be a physical book, it can be a few papers with things written on it, these few papers can also be viewed on anything like a monitor, i.e. it still a book, i.e. things written on papers, it does not matter how you read these papers even if you read it in your dreams, it still a book "Maktoob"
cheers
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Peace Warner, Imran, all,
Do you think ?The Recitation? seems a better word than ?Reading? to describe the Quraan since recitation has more emphasis on reciting/reading from memory but also can be from a written document or a book but reading denotes more towards reading a written document than from memeory.
I think that "reading" is a more correct translation. In chapter 96 we hear the command "iqraa" (read) followed by saying that the Lord taught with the pen.
Interestingly, Sunnis and Shias believe that the prophet was illiterate when chapter 96 was descended. There is a Hadith that describes this event as the prophet being asked to "iqraa" three times and every time he responds that he can't "iqraa". Now this Abbassid era fabricated Hadith is of course completely irrelevant to what really happened but interestingly it inadvertently gives us insights into how the Arabs understood the word "iqraa" during the Abbassid era when the Hadith was produced. Illiterate people can easily recite from memory so the point of the Hadith is not that the prophet didn't know how to speak from memory. The point is that he supposedly didn't know how to read a written text. This linguistic nugget of information is about the only useful data one can glean from the Hadith.
By the way, Chapter 96 is directed to all of us.
I hope that this answered your question.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace
I guess I missed something in my earlier post.
In 21105, 7145 and 7154 wa katabna/ we wrote and also the written tablets indicate physical books or written documents were given to David and Moses. 348 Indicates Jesus was taught by God the book , wisdom, torah and injil.
Whereas the Quraan was "read" to the prophet by the Angel ( although I am not sure whether the Quraan says this or just inspired) but Muhammad was not given a written book or tablet different from the revelation of zabur torah .
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Salaam all
We know that Arabic is founded on a "root system", meaning that many words would be derived from this root according to a specific pattern to indicate if the new word is a verb, name of a place , verbal noun, noun..etc. The root is usually a noun.
The original root/word for kataba is "kutba", a device used by bedouins to lock the nostrils of a she-camel so it won't sniff on new borne camels other than hers; so the original meaning is to link things together, hence the word kitaba, which links letters to each other. Kitaab is written words that bring about meanings linked to one subject. Maktab is the noun of place that joins worker on one assignment (office as in post office; information office, health office...etc) or a place where you write/join letters together (desk). Maktoub is the passive participle (written). Kateeba in an army is a unit of soldiers designated for a specific armoury (batallion; regiment..)
In his book "The Book and the Qur'aan", Dr. Shahrour states that The Book as used in the Qur'aan is not a synonym for "The Qur'aan". It designates verses that are linked to the same subject Law. Previous prophets were given "kitaabs", but definitely not the Qur'aan, in which they also had Devine Law.
Notice to whom the Qur'aan was addressed and to whom The Book was addressed from these two verses
22 "That Book, no doubt, has in it guidance to the pious/righteous
2185 ....when the Qur'aan was revealed as guidance for mankindSome Arab tribes read the word Quraan without hamza, referring it to the root (gaf re nuun) meaning to join together, understanding that The Book vesres and the Qur'aan verses are combined in one sahiifa. Sahiifa means book as we generally understand, and as the Qur'aan used it.
And God is the Most Knowledgeable.
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Salam Ahmed,
so the three words "Injil, Torah, and Zaboor" don't mean reading,
how this can make sense bro, aren't they also books sent to us by Allah for reading?All the meanings are related and they are all books. There are many passages in the great reading that describe its message as good news ("bushra" exactly like the meaning of "injil" (for example 297).
Similarly, the great reading contains "teachings" or "learning" just like the meaning of "torah". Notice that in 544 we are told that the "torah" (teachings) have light and guidance. The descriptions of "light" and "guidance" are similarly used to describe the great reading.
Now the description of "zabour" is very interesting because in ancient Arabia there were different scripts used for monumental inscriptions on rock than for writing on soft material such as parchment. Monumental inscriptions were used for commemorative writings that people don't read on day to day basis. On the other hand, the soft writing materials were used for everyday affairs such as business contracts, letters, and literature. In Chapter 96, we are told to read what The God taught by the "pen". We are also told that had the sea been "ink" and the trees "pens", then they would have been exhausted before The God's words. All this is indicating that similar to the "zabour", the great reading was also written on soft material that people use in every day affairs and is highly accessible for reading. It was not written as a monumental inscription for mere religious display.
or the people of the past didn't need to reed these books from Allah?
As you see above, all the meanings of "injil, torah, and zaboor" are related to the great reading and have similar properties as the great reading. We shouldn't repeat the mistakes of the people in the past who lost those meanings by transforming them into meaningless proper names.
For example, by transforming "injeel" into a meaningless proper name Christians have transformed Jesus from a "bearer of good news" (i.e., a messenger) into a son of god.
Now sectarians are doing the same thing with the great reading. By transforming it into a meaningless proper name they have made an idol out of it. They claim that it is "uncreated". They take it as a protector and hang it on their walls to ward evil while The God is the only protector.
We should trust in The God and in that He doesn't use words haphazardly. He chose to describe this book using the intensified noun form of qra' for a meaningful reason. It isn't just a meaningless label.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Samia,
We know that Arabic is founded on a "root system", meaning that many words would be derived from this root according to a specific pattern to indicate if the new word is a verb, name of a place , verbal noun, noun..etc. The root is usually a noun.
The original root/word for kataba is "kutba", a device used by bedouins to lock the nostrils of a she-camel so it won't sniff on new borne camels other than hers; so the original meaning is to link things together, hence the word kitaba, which links letters to each other. Kitaab is written words that bring about meanings linked to one subject. Maktab is the noun of place that joins worker on one assignment (office as in post office; information office, health office...etc) or a place where you write/join letters together (desk). Maktoub is the passive participle (written). Kateeba in an army is a unit of soldiers designated for a specific armoury (batallion; regiment..)
The word kitab, 'book, letter', is actually of Aramaic origin. It is mentioned in Lihyanite inscriptions (W. Caskel, Lihyan und Lihyanisch) and this root is also attested in the name of the North Arabian deity Alkutbay/Hanaktab. Alkutbay was the Arabian scribe deity, like Nabu in Mesopotamia.
I think that the meaning of "joining" letters to make words and so on is certainly original and valid. However, given that Aramaic and Lihyanite are older than Arabic, I doubt that the Arab bedouin meaning is the "original meaning". You have to be careful not to fall into the trap of late Abbasid era linguists who romanticized bedouin live and attributed anything about Arabic to them. Those same linguists believed that Classical Arabic existed since the beginning of time and that ancient people such as Abraham and Ishmael spoke Classical Arabic.
In his book "The Book and the Qur'aan", Dr. Shahrour states that The Book as used in the Qur'aan is not a synonym for "The Qur'aan". It designates verses that are linked to the same subject Law. Previous prophets were given "kitaabs", but definitely not the Qur'aan, in which they also had Devine Law.
Notice to whom the Qur'aan was addressed and to whom The Book was addressed from these two verses
22 "That Book, no doubt, has in it guidance to the pious/righteous
2185 ....when the Qur'aan was revealed as guidance for mankindThe forethoughtful (ن is a sub-category of people. Certainly, we know from empirical observation that not all people get any guidance from all or any part of the great reading. 22 further clarifies 2185.
I think that Shahroor is straining to find meaning because he takes "quran" to be a meaningless proper name. Had he used a dictionary and looked up the word and saw that it is the intensified noun "reading" (or more accurately "intense reading" then everything would have been cleat to him. Of course, the relationship between "book" and "reading" is crystal clear and indisputable to anyone who has read a book.
Some Arab tribes read the word Quraan without hamza, referring it to the root (gaf re nuun) meaning to join together, understanding that The Book vesres and the Qur'aan verses are combined in one sahiifa.
This is the first time that I hear this but I wouldn't be surprised if it is mentioned by some Classical Arabic dictionary. As a result of the classical linguists' unrealistic view of the bedouins, dictionaries have many such bizarre etymologies.
For example, some classical linguists suggest that the word "quru'a" (menses) in 2228 is the plural of "quran". Of course, the plural "quru'a" in 2228 is most likely to be unrelated to Q-R-'A but is more likely to be related to the root Q-R-W
Here is what another Lexicon said
(ُ
The word "qrw" signifies a "7awdh"/sink/basin/bowl where liquid is gathered. Interestingly, "7awdh" also means pelvis. The pelvis creates the basin of the lower abdominal cavity. The closely related word "7aydh" is used to mean menses. Hence, "quru'a"/menses in 2228 is likely to be the plural of "qrw" and of course its root Q-R-W is a different root than Q-R-'A.
Sahiifa means book as we generally understand, and as the Qur'aan used it.
Yes, the word "sahifa" is attested several times in South Arabian inscriptions, in Sabaic, several times in Qatabanian and mostly frequently in Minaean inscriptions. The word "sahifa" derives from the South Semitic root shf, which means "to write, write down, inscribe". So a "sahifa" is something "written down", i.e. a document.
And God is the Most Knowledgeable.
Indeed, The God is the most knowledgeable. This is why we should trust in Him and in that He doesn't use words haphazardly. Shahroor should trust in that The God uses the word "quran"/reading for a reason and that it is not a meaningless label. He should take the meaning at face value (reading) and not make it a meaningless label that divides the book haphazardly.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salam Ahmed,
Salam Bro Ayman
so the three words "Injil, Torah, and Zaboor" don't mean reading,
how this can make sense bro, aren't they also books sent to us by Allah for reading?All the meanings are related and they are all books. There are many passages in the great reading that describe its message as good news ("bushra" exactly like the meaning of "injil" (for example 297).
Exactly so we clearly and comfortably say
Injil = Torah = Quran = Bushra
But can we say the same regarding reading?
Similarly, the great reading contains "teachings" or "learning" just like the meaning of "torah". Notice that in 544 we are told that the "torah" (teachings) have light and guidance. The descriptions of "light" and "guidance" are similarly used to describe the great reading.
Cool, then we can also say
Injil = Torah = Quran = Teachings
Now for those who received the torah and Allah ordered them to follow, how they can follow it without reading it or hearing it if it is in the form of a book?
See, it is logical that the torah is a book to read, like the Injil, like the Quran, no new info to use the name Quran to stress that that book is for reading, it is so laughable brother Ayman, but there will be new info if we call it ?Bushra?, or ?Teachings?, see
Now the description of "zabour" is very interesting because in ancient Arabia there were different scripts used for monumental inscriptions on rock than for writing on soft material such as parchment. Monumental inscriptions were used for commemorative writings that people don't read on day to day basis. On the other hand, the soft writing materials were used for everyday affairs such as business contracts, letters, and literature.
So during the Zabour time there were people who could not read opr there was no writings on papers so the Zabour does not mean reading?
In Chapter 96, we are told to read what The God taught by the "pen".
Yeh but that sounds more like a metaphor, or possibly when He taught Adam all the names?, but it does not apply to you and me, because God only caused us to learn by pen from others so it sounds for all humanity exceot Adam as a Metaphore that the knwoedlge we gain via pen and papers is caused by Allah. ?Musabbib Al Asbab?
We are also told that had the sea been "ink" and the trees "pens", then they would have been exhausted before The God's words. All this is indicating that similar to the "zabour", the great reading was also written on soft material that people use in every day affairs and is highly accessible for reading. It was not written as a monumental inscription for mere religious display.
Bro this is irrelevant to be honest because regardless the writings is written on a rock or on a piece of paper of a piece of papyrus it still needed to be read to follow or to be heard by someone to be followed, we are not going to read it to spend the time bro
or the people of the past didn't need to reed these books from Allah?
As you see above, all the meanings of "injil, torah, and zaboor" are related to the great reading and have similar properties as the great reading. We shouldn't repeat the mistakes of the people in the past who lost those meanings by transforming them into meaningless proper names.
Like Bushra, I agree (there is new info here)
Like Teachings I agree (there is new info here)
Like reading I disagree (because there is no new info whatsoever and a child should know that any writing is for reading), I donlt think they teach us at schools that books are for read, we just pick it up naturally
For example, by transforming "injeel" into a meaningless proper name Christians have transformed Jesus from a "bearer of good news" (i.e., a messenger) into a son of god.
Really?
Please bro don?t confuse the subjects, making Jesus a son of god has noting to do with our discussion here, thanks
Now sectarians are doing the same thing with the great reading. By transforming it into a meaningless proper name they have made an idol out of it. They claim that it is "uncreated". They take it as a protector and hang it on their walls to ward evil while The God is the only protector.
As well the sectarians has nothing to do here, do you see me using their words?, I only use the Quran
I don?t use anything else including the possibly contaminated historical evidences
We should trust in The God and in that He doesn't use words haphazardly.
Exactly so to name a book ?reading? constitute using words haphazardly
Let me confuse the subject as you do
Would you care to explain to us what ?Jebril? means?
He chose to describe this book using the intensified noun form of qra' for a meaningful reason. It isn't just a meaningless label.
Peace,
Ayman
yep to incline reading, but not to mean reading, we know already that any book is for reading so if it was meant reading then this constitute a clear cut use of words haphazardly
See, I can?t call a car ?Driving?, because a child knows that it is for driving, but what I can call the car is this
Mazda RX8
Would you care to explain to us what Mazda RX8 means?
Peace bro
Ahmed