would you use a 1400 yr old biology book instead of a modern one?
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Salaams nadia,
In this sense you wouldn't consider the quran (a book of guidance/message for humanity etc) timeless? You would consider it outdated? Please clarify?
It was a message for humanity and still is but it is has been improving gradually with time , but the muslims/trads didn?t think their message needs improving ?so their message /the quran in its present form is some what outdated.
But then again as the quran is a god to some of us who can replace it - even such a screwd up translation.
It's a god to those who can replace it? Even with a screwed up translation it's a god to someone who can replace it (translation or quran?)? What are you saying please?
The quran is a god to some .
Who think every letter in is to be worshipped as though each letter is a god e.t.c
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Salaams soul2,
Peace Simple
The difference between the quran and a 1400 yr. old biology book (if there is such a thing ;D) is that the quran is a DIRECT message from God to His creation. You cannot deduce just because a book has some truth in it, that it is FROM God. I think this is where the argument becomes flawed. Any truth is an aya (sign/miracle) from God. They are all around us and it is up to us to discover them. Therefore, a biology book that has some truth to it would be a book that confirms the AYAT (signs/miracles) that God has given us everywhere. The quran on the other hand was a direct message that did not even come in written form. It is a message directly from God that is universal in its application. Whereas a biology book may have alot of outdated, unnecessary information or information that has later been proven false. In there lies the real difference between a man-made book and a message from the Supreme.
Peace All
Even a biology book is a direct message from the Almighty - to my understandings.
so the quran (to me) isn't the only thing directly presented to humanity.
Let me turn this upside down in totellity and say even a telephone directory is from God , if you can comprehend the Almighty.
But i don't expect you to understand though - its too simple to understand this , but we don't/can't realise what God is and keep looking for something uncomprehensible so we end up losing sight of where the quran and all the rest of the knowledge is coming from.
Gods Blessings.
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Peace simple,
It was a message for humanity and still is but it is has been improving gradually with time , but the muslims/trads didn?t think their message needs improving ?so their message /the quran in its present form is some what outdated.
Been improving with time aka outside additions or better understanding/translations? I think that people need to be living to realize what the quran is saying. Not be a hermit for example who has cut himself off from society and life in general focused on only one thing. That is one way in which a lot of things come together in the quran and it becomes clearer as one lives their lives taking on experience. This can happen in any time period, people are indeed guided whether they had the quran or some other guidance, I don't think anyone denies this. I do not believe that people living a thousand years back were cheated of something that we have now unless it's an epidural Different times but our human nature remains the same and that timelessness whether human or just nature is what is addressed. I however agree that certain people might want their mindset/culture/traditions etc to be static, but that really doesn't have anything to do with the quran or does it?
The quran is a god to some .
Indeed if it is stuck up on someone's shelf and not read/experienced but venerated as a holy symbol of warding.
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Peace
Knowledge can be found in books, but wisdom comes from within us.
Salaams all,phoenix,
The knowledge in the books like that in the quran or in a physics book has come to us from somewhere -maybe God?as we/i believe.
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Peace simple,
It was a message for humanity and still is but it is has been improving gradually with time , but the muslims/trads didn?t think their message needs improving ?so their message /the quran in its present form is some what outdated.
Been improving with time aka outside additions or better understanding/translations? I think that people need to be living to realize what the quran is saying. Not be a hermit for example who has cut himself off from society and life in general focused on only one thing. That is one way in which a lot of things come together in the quran and it becomes clearer as one lives their lives taking on experience. This can happen in any time period, people are indeed guided whether they had the quran or some other guidance, I don't think anyone denies this. I do not believe that people living a thousand years back were cheated of something that we have now unless it's an epidural Different times but our human nature remains the same and that timelessness whether human or just nature is what is addressed. I however agree that certain people might want their mindset/culture/traditions etc to be static, but that really doesn't have anything to do with the quran or does it?
The quran is a god to some .
Indeed if it is stuck up on someone's shelf and not read/experienced but venerated as a holy symbol of warding.
I totally agree with you but at the same time i must say there are lot of things which the quran lacks which other people of the world have been progressing with , no doubt with Gods help - whilst what knowledge/wisdom the quran contains has been frozen since it was written.
just a simple example - detail the ayah where we are told to use body parts or not , state the punishment of a kid who brings down the free minds site/or any site for fun e.t.c there are loads of things.
The quran came 14 hundred years ago when the world was simple , people could hardly read and wrote so you find such laws for them in the quran but nothing as sophisticated as the world has become.
But saying all that i do believe there is still a lot to be gained from the quran but it is not the only thing from God All-Mighty.All good knowledge is Gods own knowledge but passed on to us to take benefit from.
Thanks.
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The knowledge in the books like that in the quran or in a physics book has come to us from somewhere -maybe God?as we/i believe.
Peace
The truth is from God. No matter where we find it, the Truth will always lead us to God. It is truth that we are looking for. I think Kyle made a good point about truth not being just facts, but relationships of things. We have to connect the facts to get to the truth.
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Peace Simple
Even a biology book is a direct message from the Almighty - to my understandings.
a biology book written 1400 yrs ago or even today, has dated information. It is knowledge to the best of scientists' capabilities up to the present. It might be all wrong. It might be partially wrong. It was written by a human who is prone to making mistakes and limited in his scope of understanding the universe.
This is vastly different than the quran which is very relevant today as it was 1400 yrs ago and as it will be 1400 yrs from now. As Savage_Carrot rightfully pointed out, it deals with human traits that have always been around and will always be around... arrogance, hate, envy, abuse, etc .etc. The laws are universal and timeless because these issues are not culture-specific or time specific. It has nothing to do with how advanced a civilization can become, these issues will still arise over and over again.
A telephone book has a listing of phone numbers that may or may not be available. It has dated information. I would say the advancement of technology to make that phone book is an AYA (miracle/sign) from the Almighty, the information in it is nothing more than a directory. But even if we were to talk about a biology book that correctly explains the functions of the digestive system in detail, we can only say that it confirms the AYA of God which is the human body's capabilites and also confirms the verse in the quran which commands us to seek knowledge around us. God indeed is the dispenser of knowledge, but in my opinion, (and i could be wrong) that knowledge of the digestive system does not equate with a direct message sent forth by God to the entire humanity from 1400 yrs ago or more, to now, to the end of time.
Peace All
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Salaams soul2,
You are right in that the general theme of the quran still applies today and is most beneficial to humanity as it did 1400 years ago , but the laws and some of the general knowledge has become usless.There is even so much mistranslation and misdirection people are lost in idolatory - i think.
I will let you discover all this- but Br , i will give you guy's a hand ocassionaly though.
And as many here say - All truth is from God and is dispensed to you me and everybody else always and no body can stop/prevent it , and sorry you guys the quran didn't get the stop which we are told it did.
The knowledge is flowing and will never stop - i think,be it biology or what not.
God Bless us all.
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Peace Simple
And as many here say - All truth is from God and is dispensed to you me and everybody else always and no body can stop/prevent it , and sorry you guys the quran didn't get the stop which we are told it did.
I don't think anyone ever said that there is no knowledge after the quran. That would be absurd because the quran is not meant to be taken as an encyclopedia. However, the quran does have the final say on how we should lead our lives, and no human can conjure up a better, straighter path for us to follow.
Also, I would like to know what are the outdated laws and information you find in the quran?
As for mistranslation, this is not the fault of the quran or God. This is the fault of those who choose to comment on things they have no knowledge of, or think they have knowledge of when in fact they are far away from the truth. A translation, be it an accurate or inaccurate one, is in effect an innovation made by man. The quran has never changed and will never change.
.There is even so much mistranslation and misdirection people are lost in idolatory - i think.
I agree with you there. Many people have stopped using their own intellect to reach the Truth and have relied on mullahs, sheikhs, and even articles on various websites to supply for them what they should do, say and think. Again that's also not the fault of the quran, not the fault of authors of ijtihad, but the fault of those who choose to be passive in their lives and spoon-fed.
Peace All