Salat Article (NEW)
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Peace Ayman,
I have read your post and find that what you are saying is pretty much the same as what I have stated...I used the term for Ummi to be
gentilewhich one of its definitions isto designate nations that are without the gospel(http//scriptures.lds.org/bd/g/24)Thus, on the one hand you have the people who received a scripture/book (the elite as you called them), and the others who had not received any scripture/book (the gentiles, or masses as you called them).
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Salaam Layth
I have read your recent article on salaat. It sounds that you now believe that Allah only authorized 2 salaat in Qur'aan for Muslims to observe which are Fajr & Isha, is this true? I am asking to get a clear answer so that I can understand how many salaat you believe Allah authorized in the Qur'aan.
Salaam
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Salaam Ayman
You have mentioned this lexicon
Classical Lexicon of Lisan Al-Arab
Can u give me information on how to obtain that lexican? Thats a popular one and I believe it came before Lane Lexicon.
Peace Layth,
If you notice the verses that use
ummyit is always given as a contrast/opposite to those whoreceived the scripture(see 278, 320, etc.) Also, 375 is very revealing as some from the people who recveived the scripture dont believe in meeting their financial obligations towards theummien(obviously meaninggentiles`).- And from among the people of the Scripture are those whom if you entrust him with a large amount he gives it back to you, and there are those whom if you entrust with one gold coin he will not return it to you unless you are standing over him. That is because they said
We have no obligation towards the Gentiles.They say about God lies while knowing.
How does it obviously mean "gentiles"?
278 refers to some people from Bani Israel. Since Bani Israel are not gentiles so this completely rules out the meaning of "gentiles".
The word "ummi" is actually closely related to the word "ummat", which means general public/populace/masses.
Another key word in 278 is the Arabic word "amany". According to the Classical Lexicon of Lisan Al-Arab, "not knowing the book except "amany"" in 278 means "except recitation". Lisan Al-Arab further explains that Arabs used the expression "someone who "yatamana"" to mean "when someone said what he doesn't understand".
Thus, it can then be seen that the great reading is talking about two groups. On the one hand, the clergy and religious/political elite who understand the language of the previous books (people of the book) and on the other hand the common people who don't understand the language of the previous books ("ummiyoon" and thus recite the book like a parrot without understanding it (27. The later can be Christians, Jews, pagans, etc. who spoke Arabic as a kind of street language of the common people. So this was not a religious division but was more of a social division.
According to 592, "people of the book" lived in fortified castles so this further confirms that they were not average people but political/religious elite. The advent of the great reading eliminated the differences between those two groups and empowered the common people by bridging the language barrier. This can be seen in the fact that unlike Christianity and Judaism, the great reading doesn't promote a clergy class or any kind of an organized church/temple.
Peace,
Ayman
- And from among the people of the Scripture are those whom if you entrust him with a large amount he gives it back to you, and there are those whom if you entrust with one gold coin he will not return it to you unless you are standing over him. That is because they said
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Salaam Ayman and Layth and to all
I find your discussion on the word ?gentile? interesting. I am studying Qur?aan 278. I will present two separate translations of this same verse. I will identify both translations as translation ?A? and ?B?
Translation A
And there are some of them that are taught by their mothers only. They don?t know the scriptures except from hearsay, and that which they do is none other than what they made up.Translation B
Among them are gentiles who did not receive any scripture. They hear of it only through hearsay, then assume that they know it.Remember both A and B transitions are for 278. Ayman and Layth from your discussions on the word ?gentile? and its meaning and context of the scriptures etc. which one of the translations up above would you consider the best and why? Your insight/information would be greatly appreciated. Also this question can also be for any body to respond to as well. Thanks.
Salaam
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Peace brother Layth,
I commend your excellent new salaat article.
I agree with you about the number of the timed salaat for the believers being two dawn and dusk. Please see the following link for my understanding based on qur'aanic evidence confirming the above
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.msg92976#msg92976
I would like to point out some more observations that support the above conclusion.
Firstly, the word used is "salaat" in 11114, and not "salawaat", thereby implying one salaat per the referred time period in that verse. Hence Allah is referring to ONE salaat at each edge of the daylight, thereby referring to two salaats in a 24 hour day.
Secondly, in 1778, contrary to what certain individuals believe, "duluk" means "declination" or "rubbing" according to classical Arabic dictionaries and NOT "declination from noon". Sun's declination could be at any time after noon, and in 1778 it refers to the declination of the sun at the time when the sun rubs against the horizon thereby encompassing both meanings of "duluk". The "li" signifies the START of the time period from the "duluk" and the "ilaa" signifies the END of the time period until the darkness of night. Thus only one salaat is being referred to during dusk, which can be performed any time from sun's duluk to the darkness of the night.
Even if "duluk" is wrongly interpreted as declination from noon, the "li" before "duluk" followed by "ilaa" before "ghasaq" signifies ONE TIME PERIOD, thereby clearly indicating ONE SALAAT during that time period and not multiple salaats in that time period, especially because the singular "salaat" is used in 1778 and not "salawaat".
I however disgree with the part of your salaat article that proposes that "qiblah" is in reference to "salaat". I agree with brother Anwar's understanding that 1087 refers to making their homes a FOCAL POINT of communal gathering, rather than making homes a direction for "salaat". The "salaat" mentioned in 1087 is an event separate from making their homes their focal point for communal gathering.
Also please see the following link to my previous post on "al-masjid al-haraam", which shows how it is scientifically impossible to face a certain geographical point from "wherever one may be" on earth due to earth's curvature or from "wherever one may be" in outer space
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5437.0
The relevant excerpt from the above link is as follows
THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE
2144 We see the shifting of thy face towards the sky; We will thus set for you a qiblah/direction/goal that will be pleasing to you "You shall set yourself towards ?al-masjid al-haram?; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the Scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.
One is supposed to set ?al-masjid al-haram? as one's direction or face it WHEREVER one is. If ?al-masjid al-haram? is a physical building then one CANNOT face it WHEREVER one is as it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to face a physical building WHEREVER one is.
Firstly, the ability to face a physical building WHEREVER one is assumes that the Earth is flat. However the reality is that the Earth is spherical. You can face a physical building only until it is in your line of sight. As soon as you get further away from it and it disappears beyond the horizon, you are no longer facing it because of the Earth's curvature, but facing a point in the sky/space many degrees away from the physical building which could be many miles away depending on one's exact location and the distance from the physical building.
Secondly, where will one face if one is on a place on Earth directly opposite to the place where the physical building is located ? Should one face one way or the opposite way then ? Actually both will be wrong because one will actually be looking at a point in space MANY MILES away from the actual physical building !!
Thirdly, where will one face if one is in space or on a distant planet, for example on MARS ? That is a very distinct possibility based on the current technological advancement of mankind. Allah's words should be applicable to all situations and there should be no doubt, as His words are complete relevant to our guidance and are for all times. Do you think that Allah forgot about the possibility of space travel or inter-planetary travel ?
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace sister Samia,
Salaam all
What is "The Restricted Temple"?
Did exist then?In other words, what should we face when performing salaat?
Please see the following link for my understanding of "al-masjid al-haraam"
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5437.0
The institution of hearing and obeying the forbidden (al-masjid al-haraam) which is "the truth from our Lord" should be our focal point/direction/target wherever we may be.
In my understanding, while performing salaat we can face any physical direction of our choice
2115 And to God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is.............
My understanding is that "qiblah" has nothing to do with "salaat"; reference my above post directed to brother Layth.
Regards,
Tanveer
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salaam tanveer and all,
115 And to God belongs the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is God's presence. God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but piety is.............
My understanding is that "qiblah" has nothing to do with "salaat"; reference my above post directed to brother Layth.
that's why i gave up the "sunni salat/physical salat"
peace, rifat
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Mentioned is the name of SALAT in the verse itself as Sallat Jumma..
Is there a possibility one has missed this by haste?
629 O you who believe, when the oath of allegiance is called to at the time of public gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if you only knew.
6210 Then, once the oath of allegiance is complete, you shall disperse through the land and seek God's provisions, and remember God frequently, that you may succeed.
And, the verse which is also the name of this Surah, is also called Jumma
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%286299%29 -
Mentioned is the name of SALAT in the verse itself as Sallat Jumma..
Is there a possibility one has missed this by haste?
629 O you who believe, when the oath of allegiance is called to at the time of public gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if you only knew.
6210 Then, once the oath of allegiance is complete, you shall disperse through the land and seek God's provisions, and remember God frequently, that you may succeed.
And, the verse which is also the name of this Surah, is also called Jumma
http//corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%286299%29Those guys posted years ago.
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Peace Layth,
How does it obviously mean "gentiles"?
278 refers to some people from Bani Israel. Since Bani Israel are not gentiles so this completely rules out the meaning of "gentiles".
The word "ummi" is actually closely related to the word "ummat", which means general public/populace/masses.
Another key word in 278 is the Arabic word "amany". According to the Classical Lexicon of Lisan Al-Arab, "not knowing the book except "amany"" in 278 means "except recitation". Lisan Al-Arab further explains that Arabs used the expression "someone who "yatamana"" to mean "when someone said what he doesn't understand".
Thus, it can then be seen that the great reading is talking about two groups. On the one hand, the clergy and religious/political elite who understand the language of the previous books (people of the book) and on the other hand the common people who don't understand the language of the previous books ("ummiyoon" and thus recite the book like a parrot without understanding it (27. The later can be Christians, Jews, pagans, etc. who spoke Arabic as a kind of street language of the common people. So this was not a religious division but was more of a social division.
According to 592, "people of the book" lived in fortified castles so this further confirms that they were not average people but political/religious elite. The advent of the great reading eliminated the differences between those two groups and empowered the common people by bridging the language barrier. This can be seen in the fact that unlike Christianity and Judaism, the great reading doesn't promote a clergy class or any kind of an organized church/temple.
Peace,
Ayman
Some good points.
Kitab means law, not book.
Ummiyeen = unlearned people, common folk. Thus, it is understandable how ummy is used today to mean illiterate and the absurd claim that Muhammad as illiterate. I would say though, that this term encompasses gentiles by default since they do not know the law except through hearsay.
Ahl al kitab = doctors of the law, experts of the law, etc.
Allatheena utu al kitab = Those who received the law. Jews and Christians in general (and perhaps other groups?)
Why else would God mention two terms for the same group? It's not the case. Ahl al kitab /=/ allatheena utu al kitab
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Salaam all,
I would like to pick up where I last left off concerning the issue of salatul-juma'.
Remember that I brought up the issue that 629 doesn't say "A" time of gathering, it says "THE" time of gathering. The reason I am saying Time of gathering instead of Day of gathering is because in the quran yawm is mainly used to describe a period of time instead of a 24 hour day. Nnhar is mainly used for 24 hour day. Brother Mirghani Hamed does a pretty good job in exploring the issue of yawm and nhar in his article on Friday Prayer which can be read by clicking on http//www.free-minds.org/articles/hadith/friday.htm
With the clearest definition of yawm as our point of departure, I want to see if there is anything in the quran that speaks of a specific time of gathering. Here is what I have been looking at as a possibility. I am looking forward to your views and thoughts on this.
I want to focus on verses 9 and 10 of chapter 62.
629 O you who believe, when the oath of allegiance is called to at the time of public gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if you only knew.
6210 Then, once the oath of allegiance is complete, you shall disperse through the land and seek God's provisions, and remember God frequently, that you may succeed.
Please pay particular attention to the sentences highlighted in red and compare them to these other verses highlighted in red.
Also, please keep the following points in mind while reading these next set of verses.
1). 629,10 are speaking of a time of PUBLIC gathering....a time where many people are gathered together in order to share a common event.
2). There are Two events that I have found in the quran that GOD describes as a time that the people will be gathered. One of them is the day of resurrection. Well, I can't see how GOD can be talking about that particular time in 629 and 10.
The other time spoken of in the quran where many people gather together is the Hajj.
Chapter 22 outlines what is to be taking place during this time that the people gather together. Please read these verses carefully, especially the verses highlighted in red, and think upon what we have just read in 629 and 10...
2227 And call out to mankind with the Pilgrimage, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.
2228 So that they may witness benefits for themselves and recall God's name in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor.
2229 Then let them complete their duties and fulfill their vows, and let them traverse at the ancient Sanctuary.
2230 Thus, and whosoever honours God's restrictions, then it is better for him with His Lord. And the livestock is made lawful for you except what is recited upon you. So avoid the foulness of idols and avoid saying false statements.
To my understanding, verse 27 speaks of THE time of gathering. I compare this to 629 that speaks of THE time of gathering.
Verse 28 speaks of the benefits we may witness at this time. The benefits at this time is twofold the obvious spiritual benefits as well as the commercial benefits that we are allowed to pursue at this particular time. I compare this to 629 as well which tells us to hasten to the remberance of GOD (the spiritual benefits) and to drop all trade/business (the commercial benefits). I also compare the wording of verses 28 and 29 to the wording of 6210 that says after the salat is completed, we may continue to seek GOD's bounties and to traverse throughout while doing so.
Of course my understanding of this may be way off base, but either way I am still interested in how others may see this as a possibility.
Peace,
Damon.As Mohammed was the last Nabi for Bani Isreal, to transition them to the Quran, and Mohammed was a Rasoel for mankind.
Who do you think are addressed when you read O You who have believed?
