Is it a fictitious story?
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Peace
Both the sunnis (in hadith) and the jews (in thalmud) have a saying that someoone can invent a false story and narrate it as true so long as the wisdom in it is useful.
Now if you say that stories in the Quran are fictitious, it means they are not true, what is not true is a lie, are you calling God a liar?
Salam
Nabster -
Peace
Very perceptive of you nabster
I believe that each "story" in the quran has a very historically factual dimension that concludes with a moral lesson for us but also can have an element of an allegory to parallel a very deep and spiritual meaning, beyond the simple story-line (oppressor = Pharoah , minority opressed believers = bani israel). In God's Infinite Wisdom He was able to allow for layers upon layers of meaning in His message. Praise be to God.
Peace All
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peace
please try to understand me. I agree with soul2squeeze, except I think that it DOESN't MATTER whether they are historically accurate or not. Although I think that some stories aren't based real people but legends (like Solomon) which aren't correct. But I'm not debating that right now.
My point basically is this it doesn't matter what those stories are, because the Quran never tells us what they are. What matter is the lesson we extract from it, no matter how we get there.What is truth? truth is not facts. Truth is what guides us correctly, according to universal law. The quran can give us the truth any way it wants.
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phoenix1, do as u please, I wont carry your burden and you wont carry mine... I am done arguing, and The God forbids it anyway, especially falsehood...
Peace -
Peace,
I do believe the events are real, as some have to many details which are not directly connected with learning us wisdom but with explaining the circumstances of the prophets. The purpose of course that they are in the Quran, is because that we can learn from them, but at the same time to show us the real history, becaase we are indeed left with only legends from the historical accounts.
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With the clarity and vivacity in the language with which the incidents are narrated (there are many other instances in the Quran), it is very hard for me to take any allegorical interpretation of ?turning a stick into a serpent? or ?dividing of the sea followed by striking with the staff?. I find myself in an ?uneasy? situation in front of the people of general scientific attitude.
At the end of the ?story? God said, ?In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.?
What is the sign here in the story?
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peace
Does Allah say that it is a chronicle of real/historical events? no.
Maybe it doesn't matter what it is. What matters is that in that story, there is a lesson for us to learn.
As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.I agree.
This story with Moses and the pharaoh tells me of several things patience, firmness, endurance, belief, leadership, initiative, brotherhood.As salamu alaykum. jedi
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prashant_kumar, the sign you refer to is The God if He wants for something to be, He says be and it is...
He can locally or globally change the laws of physics if He so wills, and those were potent demonstrations of His abilities.
Of course he could have beamed out the Children of Israel from Pharaoh' clutches, or anything extraordinary you might think about.
He could also have stopped Christians and Muslims fighting, Muslims and Muslims fighting, all the wars we witnessed, or let us destroy ourselves in an apocalyptical nuclear winter (the latter can still come to pass, in the Quran we have no guarantee whatsoever it will not).
He does as He pleases according to a divine plan he gave us a glimpse of through the Quran.
Of course Scientists will never accept miracles unless they are believers, and in the capitalist atmosphere we live in, even those who do will never find the fundings to investigate them.
Besides miracles are not usually part of the Natural Laws, Allah uses them to demonstrate that having made the Laws Himself, He is not bound by them as we are, so even studying them might be pointless.
Nabster -
Thanks Alen and nabster and others.
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Peace
Besides miracles are not usually part of the Natural Laws, Allah uses them to demonstrate that having made the Laws Himself, He is not bound by them as we are, so even studying them might be pointless.
Excellent point! This reminds me of the Christian dogma which states that, God's Law that He decreed upon Himself was to punish His creation if they sinned, but He also has a Law upon Himself to be Merciful to His creation. In order to not break His first law, He came down in human form to be the human sacrifice and die for His creation's sins. Now if that wasn't confusing... -\
Anyway, very intuitive point you made
Peace All
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With the clarity and vivacity in the language with which the incidents are narrated (there are many other instances in the Quran), it is very hard for me to take any allegorical interpretation of ?turning a stick into a serpent? or ?dividing of the sea followed by striking with the staff?. I find myself in an ?uneasy? situation in front of the people of general scientific attitude.
At the end of the ?story? God said, ?In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.?
What is the sign here in the story?
Peace prashant_kumar,
Do you really think Moses was a magician ?
Peace
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Hello JM
may I ask this question as a firm believer that the staff was turned into a snake and the sea was splitted with the will of Allah
of course he was not a magician, He was a messenger that Allah supported Him great deal, this support came on the form of miracles, exactly as it happned with many other prophets
so for you if to believe that by turning the staff into a snake is nothing but magic and can't happen according to the will of Allah "EXACTLY AS HE TOLD US", then Jesus for you must be a magician as well, right?
Cheers
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Peace Ahmed,
I have 2 questions for you
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Why did God not help Muhammad by some magical trick, like pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat, or something like that ?
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How do you explain the following verse
He said ?No, you cast down.? So their ropes and staffs appeared from their magic as if they were moving. And Moses held some fear in himself. We said ?Do not fear, you will best them.? ?And cast down what is in your right hand it will consume what they have made. They have only made the work of a magician, and the magician will not succeed no matter what he does.?
- How did the magicians of Pharaoh manage to make their ropes and staffs appear like they were moving ?
- How did Moses do in to have what their have made have consumed ?
Peace
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peace
Altso, turning a snake into a stick and reverse the effect, is kindergarden magic for absolute beginners in the craft. A magician who doesnt know the snake to stick trick is no magician at all. So why does Moses chose to try and impress with a trick that all the magicians of pharao knew by heart?
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Salaam all
Moses turned his stick into a snake; but that was not the end of the story. What puzzled the magicians was that the stick of Moses swallowed all their stuff. The magicians were the first to acknowledge that what Moses just did was not magic, and they immediately believed in his God.
As to why Moses reverted to a trick they are masters of, it is, I think, the system of Allah to send His messengers with a mircle in the "language" understood by the people they are sent to, and to show them whatever they hold best, what God Has is far better.
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It is not fictious but mutasyabih terms,
Snake = something poisonus, men's idiologies are to be snakes.
Magician = men who cheats other, the politicians, leader of parties are magicians. -
It is not fictious but mutasyabih terms,
Snake = something poisonus, men's idiologies are to be snakes.
Magician = men who cheats other, the politicians, leader of parties are magicians.peace...very interresting, i must admit. Altso mens idologies have a tendency to "eat up" eachother. So Moses, symbolically showed that his ideology was stronger than theirs? add doctors to the magicians category.
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Peace Ahmed,
I have 2 questions for you
Peace JM
Sure bro but I hope your questions make sense
- Why did God not help Muhammad by some magical trick, like pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat, or something like that ?
Well bro, how do you want me to respond on Allah?s behalf?, do you think He told me that personally or what?, let me tell you bro, Allah is the one who will respond to your question not me, I only follow what He says
And they say Why is not a sign sent to him from his Lord? Say The unseen is only for Allah; therefore wait-- surely I too, with you am of those who wait.
(20)
-> See bro the same question YOU ASKED ?And they say Why is not a sign sent to him from his Lord??, now Allah is telling you this ? The unseen is only for Allah; therefore wait-- surely I too, with you am of those who wait.?
And again
And they say Why has not a sign been sent down to him from his Lord? Say Surely Allah is able to send down a sign, but most of them do not know.
(37)
-> Same question YOU ASKED bro ? And they say Why has not a sign been sent down to him from his Lord??, Allah is telling you bro ?Surely Allah is able to send down a sign, but most of them do not know.?
And again but now we have a twist bro and I hope you pay attention
And those who disbelieve say Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people.
(7)
-> What can I say?, well here is the same question YOU ASKED again ? Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord??, now the problem bro that Allah has classified those who say that and sure this include yourself because you said the same exact thing and all of you are classified as ? And those who disbelieve say?, therefore you have been classified as a disbeliever by Allah, because you are questioning the same EXACT question the disbelievers keep asking, now Allah is telling those disbelievers ? You (Mohammad) are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people.?
The classification of disbelief to those who raise that question is confirmed in the following verse
And those who disbelieve say Why is not a sign sent down upon him by his Lord? Say Surely Allah makes him who will go astray, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
(27)
-> See, the same classification? And those who disbelieve say?, and what they say?, the same question YOU ASKED exactly ? Why is not a sign sent down upon him by his Lord??, and Allah is telling those disbelievers ? Say Surely Allah makes him who will go astray, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).?, it seems to me that Allah made them go astray. I hope Allah guides you bro when you turn to Him.
And finally for that question, is it really true that Allah didn?t send down a sign to Mohammad?, well, Allah is telling us that He did
50- And they say Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner.
51- Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
52- Say Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you; He knows what is in the heavens and the earth. And (as for) those who believe in the falsehood and disbelieve in Allah, these it is that are the losers.
(50)
(51)
(52)-> The same exact question YOU ASKED ? Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord??, then Allah is responding to you ? The signs are only with Allah, and I (Mohammad) am only a plain warner?, then we read in 2951 ? Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them??, i.e. The Quran was enough of a sign for those who believe, ? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.?, this actually confirms the status of disbelief for those who ask the question you asked ? Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord??
-> Therefore bro I have only one thing to tell you regarding this subject and what will be better than what Allah said in 2952 ? Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you;?, I submitted to Him and I trust every word He says even if it makes no sense to me, my sense is in no way can be compared to my Creator sense, I don?t know His sense but I?m, sure He knows mine? He knows what is in the heavens and the earth. And (as for)?, on the other hand those been classified as disbelievers ? And (as for) those who believe in the falsehood and disbelieve in Allah, these it is that are the losers.?
I will respond to your second question later today inshaallah
Salam