Is it a fictitious story?
-
Peace,
I do believe the events are real, as some have to many details which are not directly connected with learning us wisdom but with explaining the circumstances of the prophets. The purpose of course that they are in the Quran, is because that we can learn from them, but at the same time to show us the real history, becaase we are indeed left with only legends from the historical accounts.
-
With the clarity and vivacity in the language with which the incidents are narrated (there are many other instances in the Quran), it is very hard for me to take any allegorical interpretation of ?turning a stick into a serpent? or ?dividing of the sea followed by striking with the staff?. I find myself in an ?uneasy? situation in front of the people of general scientific attitude.
At the end of the ?story? God said, ?In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.?
What is the sign here in the story?
-
peace
Does Allah say that it is a chronicle of real/historical events? no.
Maybe it doesn't matter what it is. What matters is that in that story, there is a lesson for us to learn.
As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.I agree.
This story with Moses and the pharaoh tells me of several things patience, firmness, endurance, belief, leadership, initiative, brotherhood.As salamu alaykum. jedi
-
prashant_kumar, the sign you refer to is The God if He wants for something to be, He says be and it is...
He can locally or globally change the laws of physics if He so wills, and those were potent demonstrations of His abilities.
Of course he could have beamed out the Children of Israel from Pharaoh' clutches, or anything extraordinary you might think about.
He could also have stopped Christians and Muslims fighting, Muslims and Muslims fighting, all the wars we witnessed, or let us destroy ourselves in an apocalyptical nuclear winter (the latter can still come to pass, in the Quran we have no guarantee whatsoever it will not).
He does as He pleases according to a divine plan he gave us a glimpse of through the Quran.
Of course Scientists will never accept miracles unless they are believers, and in the capitalist atmosphere we live in, even those who do will never find the fundings to investigate them.
Besides miracles are not usually part of the Natural Laws, Allah uses them to demonstrate that having made the Laws Himself, He is not bound by them as we are, so even studying them might be pointless.
Nabster -
Thanks Alen and nabster and others.
-
Peace
Besides miracles are not usually part of the Natural Laws, Allah uses them to demonstrate that having made the Laws Himself, He is not bound by them as we are, so even studying them might be pointless.
Excellent point! This reminds me of the Christian dogma which states that, God's Law that He decreed upon Himself was to punish His creation if they sinned, but He also has a Law upon Himself to be Merciful to His creation. In order to not break His first law, He came down in human form to be the human sacrifice and die for His creation's sins. Now if that wasn't confusing... -\
Anyway, very intuitive point you made
Peace All
-
With the clarity and vivacity in the language with which the incidents are narrated (there are many other instances in the Quran), it is very hard for me to take any allegorical interpretation of ?turning a stick into a serpent? or ?dividing of the sea followed by striking with the staff?. I find myself in an ?uneasy? situation in front of the people of general scientific attitude.
At the end of the ?story? God said, ?In that is a sign, but most of them are not believers.?
What is the sign here in the story?
Peace prashant_kumar,
Do you really think Moses was a magician ?
Peace
-
Hello JM
may I ask this question as a firm believer that the staff was turned into a snake and the sea was splitted with the will of Allah
of course he was not a magician, He was a messenger that Allah supported Him great deal, this support came on the form of miracles, exactly as it happned with many other prophets
so for you if to believe that by turning the staff into a snake is nothing but magic and can't happen according to the will of Allah "EXACTLY AS HE TOLD US", then Jesus for you must be a magician as well, right?
Cheers
-
Peace Ahmed,
I have 2 questions for you
-
Why did God not help Muhammad by some magical trick, like pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat, or something like that ?
-
How do you explain the following verse
He said ?No, you cast down.? So their ropes and staffs appeared from their magic as if they were moving. And Moses held some fear in himself. We said ?Do not fear, you will best them.? ?And cast down what is in your right hand it will consume what they have made. They have only made the work of a magician, and the magician will not succeed no matter what he does.?
- How did the magicians of Pharaoh manage to make their ropes and staffs appear like they were moving ?
- How did Moses do in to have what their have made have consumed ?
Peace
-
-
peace
Altso, turning a snake into a stick and reverse the effect, is kindergarden magic for absolute beginners in the craft. A magician who doesnt know the snake to stick trick is no magician at all. So why does Moses chose to try and impress with a trick that all the magicians of pharao knew by heart?
-
Salaam all
Moses turned his stick into a snake; but that was not the end of the story. What puzzled the magicians was that the stick of Moses swallowed all their stuff. The magicians were the first to acknowledge that what Moses just did was not magic, and they immediately believed in his God.
As to why Moses reverted to a trick they are masters of, it is, I think, the system of Allah to send His messengers with a mircle in the "language" understood by the people they are sent to, and to show them whatever they hold best, what God Has is far better.
-
It is not fictious but mutasyabih terms,
Snake = something poisonus, men's idiologies are to be snakes.
Magician = men who cheats other, the politicians, leader of parties are magicians. -
It is not fictious but mutasyabih terms,
Snake = something poisonus, men's idiologies are to be snakes.
Magician = men who cheats other, the politicians, leader of parties are magicians.peace...very interresting, i must admit. Altso mens idologies have a tendency to "eat up" eachother. So Moses, symbolically showed that his ideology was stronger than theirs? add doctors to the magicians category.
-
Peace Ahmed,
I have 2 questions for you
Peace JM
Sure bro but I hope your questions make sense
- Why did God not help Muhammad by some magical trick, like pulling a rabbit out of an empty hat, or something like that ?
Well bro, how do you want me to respond on Allah?s behalf?, do you think He told me that personally or what?, let me tell you bro, Allah is the one who will respond to your question not me, I only follow what He says
And they say Why is not a sign sent to him from his Lord? Say The unseen is only for Allah; therefore wait-- surely I too, with you am of those who wait.
(20)
-> See bro the same question YOU ASKED ?And they say Why is not a sign sent to him from his Lord??, now Allah is telling you this ? The unseen is only for Allah; therefore wait-- surely I too, with you am of those who wait.?
And again
And they say Why has not a sign been sent down to him from his Lord? Say Surely Allah is able to send down a sign, but most of them do not know.
(37)
-> Same question YOU ASKED bro ? And they say Why has not a sign been sent down to him from his Lord??, Allah is telling you bro ?Surely Allah is able to send down a sign, but most of them do not know.?
And again but now we have a twist bro and I hope you pay attention
And those who disbelieve say Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord? You are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people.
(7)
-> What can I say?, well here is the same question YOU ASKED again ? Why has not a sign been sent down upon him from his Lord??, now the problem bro that Allah has classified those who say that and sure this include yourself because you said the same exact thing and all of you are classified as ? And those who disbelieve say?, therefore you have been classified as a disbeliever by Allah, because you are questioning the same EXACT question the disbelievers keep asking, now Allah is telling those disbelievers ? You (Mohammad) are only a warner and (there is) a guide for every people.?
The classification of disbelief to those who raise that question is confirmed in the following verse
And those who disbelieve say Why is not a sign sent down upon him by his Lord? Say Surely Allah makes him who will go astray, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
(27)
-> See, the same classification? And those who disbelieve say?, and what they say?, the same question YOU ASKED exactly ? Why is not a sign sent down upon him by his Lord??, and Allah is telling those disbelievers ? Say Surely Allah makes him who will go astray, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).?, it seems to me that Allah made them go astray. I hope Allah guides you bro when you turn to Him.
And finally for that question, is it really true that Allah didn?t send down a sign to Mohammad?, well, Allah is telling us that He did
50- And they say Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say The signs are only with Allah, and I am only a plain warner.
51- Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
52- Say Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you; He knows what is in the heavens and the earth. And (as for) those who believe in the falsehood and disbelieve in Allah, these it is that are the losers.
(50)
(51)
(52)-> The same exact question YOU ASKED ? Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord??, then Allah is responding to you ? The signs are only with Allah, and I (Mohammad) am only a plain warner?, then we read in 2951 ? Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them??, i.e. The Quran was enough of a sign for those who believe, ? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.?, this actually confirms the status of disbelief for those who ask the question you asked ? Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord??
-> Therefore bro I have only one thing to tell you regarding this subject and what will be better than what Allah said in 2952 ? Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you;?, I submitted to Him and I trust every word He says even if it makes no sense to me, my sense is in no way can be compared to my Creator sense, I don?t know His sense but I?m, sure He knows mine? He knows what is in the heavens and the earth. And (as for)?, on the other hand those been classified as disbelievers ? And (as for) those who believe in the falsehood and disbelieve in Allah, these it is that are the losers.?
I will respond to your second question later today inshaallah
Salam
-
- How do you explain the following verse
He said ?No, you cast down.? So their ropes and staffs appeared from their magic as if they were moving. And Moses held some fear in himself. We said ?Do not fear, you will best them.? ?And cast down what is in your right hand it will consume what they have made. They have only made the work of a magician, and the magician will not succeed no matter what he does.?
Peace bro
Let me bring the Arabic verses to support my reply, I will include 2066-73,
66 He said Nay! cast down. then lo! their cords and their rods-- it was imaged to him on account of their magic as if they were running.
67 So Musa conceived in his mind a fear.
68 We said Fear not, surely you shall be the uppermost,
69 And cast down what is in your right hand; it shall devour what they have wrought; they have wrought only the plan of a magician, and the magician shall not be successful wheresoever he may come from.
70 So the magicians were thrown down to prostration they said, "We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses".
71 (Pharaoh) said "Believe ye in Him before I give you permission? Surely this must be your leader, who has taught you magic! be sure I will cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will have you crucified on trunks of palm-trees so shall ye know for certain, which of us can give the more severe and the more lasting punishment!"
72 They said "Never shall we regard thee as more than the Clear Signs that have come to us, or than Him Who created us! so decree whatever thou desirest to decree for thou canst only decree (touching) the life of this world.
73 Surely we believe in our Lord that He may forgive us our sins and the magic to which you compelled us; and Allah is better and more abiding.
(66)
(67)
(6
(69)
(70)
(71)
(72)
(73)- How did the magicians of Pharaoh manage to make their ropes and staffs appear like they were moving ?
See, starting to ask some silly questions that I thought you should know the answers already even without reading the Quran, in life there is something called magic, this magic called as such because it is an illusion, i.e. it is not real, i.e. they use tricks, well, a few years back David Coperfield visited Australia and I went to see his show live on stage, it is amazing how he prohibits any use of any cameras whatsoever, and I tried to use my binocular to track him and sure managed to discover a few of his tricks however for many other tough ones I could not figure out how he did it, later on he had a TV interview and he said that exactly, ?What we do is 100% illusion, i.e. NOT REAL, and we use tricks that all my staff know and if any gets fired and expose our tricks we kill him/her?, the bottom line magic is a sort of schooling that you need intense and very tiring knowledge to gain it over years and years of hard work, that is why a good magician makes very good money like David and you can?t deny that he is one of the best if not the best of?m all .
The Quran actually confirmed to us this fact David Coperfield mentioned in front of my eyes about magicians, this fact was mentioned clearly in the verses you posted so let?s walk through it and see if what Moses did was magic or not
-> Verse 66, the fact David mentioned is clearly said in this verse ?He said Nay! cast down. then lo! their cords and their rods-- it was imaged to him on account of their magic as if they were running. , SEE, ? ?, ? it was imaged to him on account of their magic as if they were running?, I.E, it was never REAL, it was a clear cut ILLUSION like the ones David Coperfiield and many other magicians learnt to do.
-> Verse 67, and because Moses was not a magiacian at all, it was natural to be scared, especially he was not watching it for fun rather a massive challenge to him ?So Musa conceived in his mind a fear.?
-> Verse 68, Allah knew the fear in Moses mind so He is supporting Him mentally ?We said Fear not, surely you shall be the uppermost,
-> Verse 69, and now here is the sign sent down to Moses ?|?And cast down what is in your right hand; it shall devour what they have wrought;, now there is no way a magician can do this, because it is not magic, this is real stuff that will be done by the One who is able to do anything but what they have done was only magic, an illusion ?they have wrought only the plan of a magician,? and the verse ended with a statement condemning anyone who try to learn magic ? and the magician shall not be successful wheresoever he may come from. , I?m not sure if this verse can be used to totally prohibit magic in the case of fun and a professional way to earn a living not to influence others to disobey God? But this is not important in our discussion
-> Verse 70, ?and because the magicians knew what they saw was not in their books that they spent years to learn, they realized it was not an illusion rather a sign from Allah, ?So the magicians were thrown down to prostration they said, ?We believe in the Lord of Aaron and Moses?
-> Verse 71, we see Pharaoh accusing them that Moses was the master magician who taught them the secrets of magic, this clearly proves that magic is nothing but a knowledge and experience in how to create an illusion, because the magicians WHO HAVE THIS KNOWLEDGE, realized on the spot that this is not an illusion while Pharaoh who have no knowledge of any magic still saw what Moses did as magic, ?(Pharaoh) said Believe ye in Him before I give you permission? Surely this must be your leader, who has taught you magic!, then Pharaoh went mad ? be sure I will cut off your hands and feet on opposite sides, and I will have you crucified on trunks of palm-trees so shall ye know for certain, which of us can give the more severe and the more lasting punishment!"
-> Verse 72, did the magicians feared Pharaoh and his horrifying threats to crucify them? ?They said Never shall we regard thee as more than the Clear Signs that have come to us, or than Him Who created us! so decree whatever thou desirest to decree for thou canst only decree (touching) the life of this world. ?, clearly they realized that what they saw was not an illusion rather a sign from the God Who is able to do whatever anything we can or we can?t think of, like turning the whole heaven and earth into a flea
-> Verse 73, in here the magicians confirm their submission to Allah and at the same time telling us that they have been compelled to learn magic, see it is a job, ? Surely we believe in our Lord that He may forgive us our sins and the magic to which you compelled us; and Allah is better and more abiding.
Now clearly from the above that it was not magic nor Moses was a magician rather a sign from Allah, and the verses I posted make great sense indeed because they confirm to me what David Coperfield said in front of my eyes that magic is nothing but an illusion and never real and sure the magicians who have knowledge of magic realized on the spot that what Moses did was not magic and they even realized that Moses on his own can?t do that and they submitted to Allah not to Moses as they were submitting before to Pharaoh
- How did Moses do in to have what their have made have consumed ?
Peace
This is another silly question bro, because Moses did nothing it was Allah who did that so for Allah who was described 35 times in the Quran as being able to do anything, I guess turning a staff into a real snake that eats other ropes is very easy indeed, I reckon creating the heaven and earth is far harder, or how about the black hole that swallow anything near buy as the staff of Moses swallowed other magicians staffs?, do you reckon making a that black hole is harder than making that staff?
Well as I said Allah is the one who did the action exactly as He told us, as well He also told us that all the signs Jesus did was done by His permissions, well Allah is able to do anything, this is what He said about Himself 35 times in the Quran, the book you claim to have believed in it, the book you claim to have understood it and following it, well I see you far way of that path
-
? ", ?Wa Kana Allah Ala Kul Shai Qadir?
-
? ?, ?Ina Allah Ala Kul Shai Qadir?
-
? ?, ?Wa Allah Ala Kul Shai Qadir?
-
? ?, ?Wa Inahu Ala Kul Shai Qadir?
-
? ?, ?Wa Hoa Ala Kul Shai Qadir?
-
? ?, ?Inaka Ala Kul Shai Qadir?
-
? ?, ?Fa Hoa Ala Kul Shai Qadir?
35 times bro you see the above sentences repeated that Allah is able to do anything, why you can?t accept His witness?, isn?t Allah enough of a wittness to you?
It seems to me that you truly don?t know what Allah is and what He is doing with us and His other creatures that He told us about, this is a huge conflict that you have and I?m sure it is not going to be easy if not impossible for you to resolve without Allah will
Salam
-
those of you against miracles, explain to me these verses
We supported Moses with nine profound miracles - ask the Children of Israel. When he went to them, Pharaoh said to him, "I think that you, Moses, are bewitched."
He said, "You know full well that no one can manifest these except, obviously, the Lord of the heavens and the earth. I think that you, Pharaoh, are doomed."
Recall that Moses sought water for his people. We said, "Strike the rock with your staff." Whereupon, twelve springs gushed out therefrom. The members of each tribe knew their own water. Eat and drink from GOD's provisions, and do not roam the earth corruptingly.
Don't confuse the law of this planet with the law of the Almighty
The Initiator of the heavens and the earth to have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.
Are you challenging God's omnipotence by limiting him to the laws of YOUR planet?
-
Peace JM.
I don?t think that Moses was a Magician. Jesus healed the lepers, yet he was not a doctor. Muhammad composed poetry, yet he was not a poet.