Is it meat eat eat , or Do Do Good/////////////
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Salaam simple,
Salaams all,
Using Lanes and QD.
2173
Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ???53
Verily He has forbidden upon you The Death and bloodshed and to revile/vilify with pride and to do opposite to Allah or in accordance with other then Allah ? strangling, beating, repulsing/ repelling, corruption and that (you) devour by obscenety or lewdness, except that/ what is legal to you and what lawful/ clean / pure by labour/ toil and that you seek knowledge of your fate by divining arrows that is sin this day have given up all hope those who disbelieved of your religion so do not you fear them but fear Me????.
May God Bless all.
I am second to Elke "Is it possible for you to break the translation up in steps and explain ?"
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Peace simple. If you look at my very early posts,approximately 7 months ago,you will see i wrote a very similar interpretation to yours....Very good understanding,and it makes much,much more sense than prohibiting certain specific foods in an illogical manner.....Now relate these haram acts to masjid-ul-haram,and you can see that the prohibitions are against doing harm/oppression in any form to humans...'Wherever you are turn your attention to the masjid-ul-haram'....In other words,wherever you are turn your attention to respecting human rights......The only exception is in self defense,and even then one should not transgress the limits of human rights.....Try fitting this in with all the verses......However,this understanding is primarily gained from real-life experience,not the quran....Keep up the study bro... bravo
muscle handshake peaceI am sure as you did , others might have reached the same conc; but i think most people just give up.
Salaams Br.
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Salaams elke,andy,
you don't know the time it takes,
But the single quistion elke asked
lahm = to revile/vilify - from lanes.
Gods Blessings.
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Peace all. In my previous research i suggested 'lahm' be used in the sense of 'character',check out surah 4912 and the possible reference to the lahm of a deceased/dead/spirtually dead brother...Also see 'lahm' in other parts of the quran and how it may be used....In other words we should not indulge/consume/become a 'lahm (character.) that is diseased rotten or dirty. (see various translations of khinzeer when twinned with lahm.)
Another alternative is lahm is the outer body of a person (or the flesh.) and we should not harm/make rotten/inflict upon a persons body mentally or physically.....Back to human rights again... bravo -
Peace all,
Once again i must say use Occam's Razor. Dictionaries may have a lot of meanings for a word some of which are used in particular conexts only or ina particular form or are not common. Therefore i have come to the conclusion that the best way to get the meaning of Quranic verses is NOT THROUGH OR BY USING DICTIONARIES but by studying the language in a neutral Arabic society or with different Arabs at random places not discussing religion in particular, note how those people associate diffrent meanings with the words they utter and then apply those to the Quran. This is a much more easy(compared to the dictionary method) and efficient method. Once again i doubt the neutral majority would understand the word "lahm" as anything but "flesh". If by applying this method someone still understood this very verse discussed in the above mention ed way id be surprised. GOD Bless! -
Salaams Johny,
i agree with you,but over 1400 years ago what where the
masjid al haram,salaat,zakaat - 100's of other words.
i think you will get the drift.
we need to know what they were then and as a dictionary has the majority of different uses/ meanings for now and in the past that is a good if not a better place i think apart from the context of the use of the words within the quran itself.
God bless.
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Peace "simple",
Salaams Johny,
i agree with you,but over 1400 years ago what where the
masjid al haram,salaat,zakaat - 100's of other words.
i think you will get the drift.
JK- Again this is yet another problem. Your speculating now about what people have said in the past. It makes no sense that GOD would want us to speculate how people might have used Arabic words in the past. Arabic exists TODAY and if the Quran is to be kept valid and alive(the code-19 gives +ve evidence to this) then it is only logical that the language be too. Use the scientific method and apply it on today's living society. Get the meanings of the words from NEUTRAL society by neutral conversations. This is the most reasonable approach.
we need to know what they were then and as a dictionary has the majority of different uses/ meanings for now and in the past that is a good if not a better place i think apart from the context of the use of the words within the quran itself.
God bless.
JK- This is the biggest problem. I wldnt recommend that approach. In this way also many deny the code-19 miracle. Instead of looking at the facts before them they speculate on the past saying things like "How come GOD misguided ppl for 1400 yrs" or "how come 9128&129 were there in the oldest available manuscripts if theyr not to be true Quranic verses" etc etc. All this is a bunch of nonsense speculation which can be equally countered by stating alternative possibilities. Never prefer what we have to what is gone by. I hope you get it. GOD Bless!
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Peace,
Jonny, to believe we can use todays arabic for the Quran is pure ignorance. There is not a language expert who will believe the meanings remained the same. Meanings of words change over time and are forced on the words. To prefer modern arabic over dictionaries is a crime to the 6th century Quran. Situations has changed over the last 1400 years, and so does the applications of words. When we say the word 'transportation', nowadays we think about cars and planes, in those days people thought of donkeys and horses only. Modern arabic speaking are thaught how their language can be used and what it can mean. So people before their time could have done anything they wanted and people of today wouldn't know or care. The word salat nowadays only has one meaning in modern arabic, while in classic arabic it had more then 10 different uses. People in the 6th century didn't pick one meaning, it depended on the context of the verses. Nowadays people only look at the force meanings of words and apply them for verses where they don't fit. And the 19-code doesn't refer at all that the modern arabic is the same as the ancient arabic. This is all conjecture. You say you use Occam's razor, but you certainly don't my brother. Occam's razor will not accept modern arabic to be the same as 6th century arabic...
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Peace bro "Arnold",
Peace,
Jonny, to believe we can use todays arabic for the Quran is pure ignorance. There is not a language expert who will believe the meanings remained the same. Meanings of words change over time and are forced on the words.
JK- The first part i cannot agree with. This would mean GOD made things difficult for us while it could be so much simpler. No the language exists. There are changes i.e. variations BUT THOSE VARY WITHIN A RANGE which when taken together neutrally can still lead to an unbiased view of the Quran. Im not saying to learn from one particular region only. What i cannot believe is that meanings of words n the Quran are completely lost. No there are many Arabic speaking countries or better regions and regarding a particular Qurtanic word's meaning we would find an active use of it in at least one of them. Otherwise the presevation of the Quran woudlnt make much sense if the language and or its application is lost.
To prefer modern arabic over dictionaries is a crime to the 6th century Quran. Situations has changed over the last 1400 years, and so does the applications of words. When we say the word 'transportation', nowadays we think about cars and planes, in those days people thought of donkeys and horses only.
JK- I know this and have explained this above. In order for the Quran to be genuinely preserved the meaing of the words must be actively present in society somewhere.
Modern arabic speaking are thaught how their language can be used and what it can mean. So people before their time could have done anything they wanted and people of today wouldn't know or care. The word salat nowadays only has one meaning in modern arabic, while in classic arabic it had more then 10 different uses. People in the 6th century didn't pick one meaning, it depended on the context of the verses. Nowadays people only look at the force meanings of words and apply them for verses where they don't fit. And the 19-code doesn't refer at all that the modern arabic is the same as the ancient arabic. This is all conjecture. You say you use Occam's razor, but you certainly don't my brother. Occam's razor will not accept modern arabic to be the same as 6th century arabic...
JK- I know that one word can have more than one meaning. Hence the application of Occam's Razor. Send out some researchers to different neutral Arab regions and have neutral conversations. Btw i still believe in high probability of the five daily ritual salat especially after reading the latest article expsoing the 3 salat theory and supporting the former 5 one http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm . GOD Bless!
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Peace,
Those meanings are not lost, they are in the dictionaries and some uses can be found with some nomadic tribes. Quran is not difficult, man's psychology is the one causing troubles. As for the 5 salat or 3, this is only about the timings, not the whole ritual being preserved.
And what neutral arab regions? You think researches haven't thought of that? As for the meanings to be preserved to make the Quran be preserved is again abaseless assumption. A meaning can be changed, so the word will get a new use, this will not effect the preservation at all. The grammar-rules used in modern arabic was introduced by the Persians, 200 years after the revelation. A lot of words got new meanings which were forced upon by the Jewish and Persian elites who were presenting themselves as muslims. I'm not saying at all the whole language is lost, not at all. I'm saying you cannot trust modern arabic to be used for interpretation alone, you have to research all possible meanings, and because one meaning is used now only in modern arabic, doesn't mean at all that is the one which will be favored by Occam's razor.
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Peace,
Those meanings are not lost, they are in the dictionaries and some uses can be found with some nomadic tribes. Quran is not difficult, man's psychology is the one causing troubles. As for the 5 salat or 3, this is only about the timings, not the whole ritual being preserved.
And what neutral arab regions? You think researches haven't thought of that? As for the meanings to be preserved to make the Quran be preserved is again abaseless assumption. A meaning can be changed, so the word will get a new use, this will not effect the preservation at all. The grammar-rules used in modern arabic was introduced by the Persians, 200 years after the revelation. A lot of words got new meanings which were forced upon by the Jewish and Persian elites who were presenting themselves as muslims. I'm not saying at all the whole language is lost, not at all. I'm saying you cannot trust modern arabic to be used for interpretation alone, you have to research all possible meanings, and because one meaning is used now only in modern arabic, doesn't mean at all that is the one which will be favored by Occam's razor.
JK- Yes i thght maybe they hadnt at least the ones like Ayman. Anyways if is what you claim then it goes inline with what i meant. Modern Araic alone would definitely not be enough. I dont deny tht. GOD Bless!
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Simple what is your understanding of
51 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Fulfill your pledges and
obligations. Permitted for you is the flesh of every beast that eats plants,
except what is specifically forbidden in the Book. Allah has ordained that all
hunting is prohibited during Hajj. Verily, Allah Ordains as He deems fit. -
Simple what is your understanding of
51 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Fulfill your pledges and
obligations. Permitted for you is the flesh of every beast that eats plants,
except what is specifically forbidden in the Book. Allah has ordained that all
hunting is prohibited during Hajj. Verily, Allah Ordains as He deems fit.Hello Angel,
Try this
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12457.msg98268#msg98268
Salaams.
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salam,
what about this verse
6146 For those who are Jewish, We had prohibited some edibles, such as
animals with undivided hoof, the fat of the cow and the sheep, except that
which is carried on their backs or on their intestines, or what is mixed-up in
the bone. But that was only a temporary retribution for their disobedience
(4160). We are indeed True to Our Word. -
salam,
what about this verse
6146 For those who are Jewish, We had prohibited some edibles, such as
animals with undivided hoof, the fat of the cow and the sheep, except that
which is carried on their backs or on their intestines, or what is mixed-up in
the bone. But that was only a temporary retribution for their disobedience
(4160). We are indeed True to Our Word.Using lanes.
6146
And to those who were Jews We forbade everything like cat fighting and to cause division and the spoils of war we prohibited to them to live thus except what they bear openly or possessing by entitlement/ gathered or which is in partnership with honour/ above all imperfections thus we recompensed them for their acting unjustly .Salaam.
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http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12402.0
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14164.msg124761#msg124761
Sorry not trying to change any ones belief, but hallal and haraam isn't to do with any animal but preserving the rights and dignity of MAN-i think.
peace