What Is The Difference Between A Prophet And A Messenger?

jonny_k

Peace sister "Zainab",

But the Qur'aan clearly says there will be no more prophets nor messengers.

JK- NO it doesnt. It only says Muhammad is the last Prophet. Infact that very verse mentions both terms messenger/prophet. First it is stated that Muhammad was a messenger of GOD and the last Prophet. If hed to be the last messenger too why didnt GOD say "..wa khaatamun nabiyeen WAL mursaleen" i.e. "..and the final Prophet AND messenger"? GOD means what He says.

Perhaps I know why the non-hadeeth adherents say the opposite of the hadeeth adherents .. because various sects like Ismailis and Ahmedis want to make their own spiritual leaders their self-appointed messengers. So they say Prophet Muhammad is not the last messenger. But that's totally wrong. Prophet Muhammad is the last prophet and messenger.

JK- Ahmedis have changed the meaning of "khaatamun nabiyeen" itself to mean "seal/highest degree of prophet" saying that more prophets NOT messengers would come after Muhammad. This is the exact GOD opposite of what ive stated. We dont twist the meanings of words. The Ahmedis can easily be refuted but theres no way of refuting this since the Quran never said Muhammad is the last Rasul. Infact it doesnt make sense coz angels are called Rasool too in the Quran and every lailatulqadr as you know from Quran they come down with the Holy Spirit(Gabriel). So this doesnt make any sense at all. The only way one can say that Muhammad is the last Prohet AND Messenger is by through the false deduction that every messenger must be a prophet. But i can prove this wrong from the Quran right here

Whenever God mentions prophethood in the Quran, He mentions scripture and sometimes wisdom. The association of prophethood and scripture cannot be missed except by those blocked by God from seeing the truth. The following are some examples

"Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn." 379

"Those were the ones to whom we have given the scripture, wisdom, and prophethood. If these people disbelieve, we will substitute others in their place, and the new people will not be disbelievers." 689

"We granted him Isaac and Jacob, we assigned to his descendants prophethood and the scriptures, we endowed him with his due recompense in this life, and in the Hereafter he will surely be with the righteous." 2927

"We have given the Children of Israel the scripture, wisdom, and prophethood, and provided them with good provisions; we bestowed upon them more blessings than any other people." 4516

"We sent Noah and Abraham, and we granted their descendants prophethood and the scripture. Some of them were guided, while many were wicked." 5726

Now comes the very important part

MESSENGER PROPHET and not, PROPHET MESSENGER

The first example for messenger prophet comes from 7157, and 7158 where God described the Prophet Muhammed as, "the messenger the prophet" and not as "the prophet the messenger," not an order of coincidence, . The reason is that not every messenger is a prophet and therefore the word PROPHET is used to further define and clarify the description of that messenger.

"follow the messenger, the prophet (gentile prophet) (Muhammed), whom they find written in their Torah and

Gospel . . . " 7157

"..........therefore you shall believe in God and His messenger, the prophet (gentile prophet), who believes in God and His words. Follow him, that you may be guided." 7158

MOSES, THE MESSENGER PROPHET

In 1951, Moses was described by God as a messenger prophet (Rasoulan Nabyya), and NOT as a prophet messenger (Nabyyan Rasoula).

ISMAIL, THE MESSENGER PROPHET

In 1954, Ismail is described with the same words, 'Rasoulan Nabyyan'.

The reason is that, NOT every Rasoul (Messenger) is a Nabi (Prophet), BUT every Prophet (Nabi) is a Messenger (Rasoul), so God defined the word Rasoul by adding to it Nabyya. God does not make mistakes and He does not choose His words haphazard, it is meant to be in this order.

OTHER EXAMPLES are found in the Quran to clarify this description

HUMAN BEING MESSENGER

"Am I more than a human messenger (Basharan Rasoula)" 1793

Notice, " a human messenger" and NOT "a messenger human (Rasoulan Bashara)."

The reason is that not every Bashar (human) is a Rasoul (messenger) while every Rasoul (messenger) from among us is a Bashar (human).

1794, has the same expression again, human messenger (Basharan Rasoula), not (Rasoulan Bashara)

See now how GOD has placed words in certain order making the first term the common and the second specific?

ANGEL MESSENGER

" . . . we would have sent to them from the sky an angel messenger (Malakan Rasoula)" 1795

Notice, "an angle messenger" and NOT "a messenger angel (Rasoulan Malaka). The reason is that not every angel is a messenger but every messenger FROM God's soldiers is an angel.

SAINT PROPHET

In 1941, God described Abraham as "a Siddiqan Nabyya (Saint Prophet)" and NOT as a Nabyyan Siddiqa, (Prophet Saint). The reason is that not every Siddiq (Saint ) is a prophet, while every prophet is a siddiq.

If God would say, Abraham was a Nabbyan Siddiqua (prophet saint), this would indicate that not every prophet is a saint while every saint is a prophet.

In 1956, God described the prophet Idris the same way, as a Siddiquan Nabyya (Saint prophet).

NO WHERE in the whole Quran does God use these terms different. God never described a prophet as a prophet messenger ( Nabbyan Rasoula), or prophet saint (Nabyyan Siddiqua).

'MESSENGER NOR A PROPHET'

Perhaps one of the strongest indications in the Quran that the words prophet and messenger do not have the same meaning, is found in the following verse

"We did not send before you any MESSENGER NOR A PROPHET, without having the devil interfere in his wishes. GOD then nullifies what the devil has done. GOD perfects His revelations. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise." 2252

If the words prophet and messenger had the same meaning God would not be saying "MESSENGER NOR A PROPHET" ...... would He ? Had the two words had exactly the same meaning , then mentioning one of them would have been sufficient.

GOD Bless!

savage_carrot

I think there is another question which people do not ask, because they do not think it exists What is the difference between nabi and nabi? Just as we know that there is 3abd (singular of 3abeed) and 3abd(from 3ibaad); we have nabi (from nabiyyiin) and nabi (anbiyaa&#039.

Peace sis,

Excellent point you have brought up. Thanks for the input on this as I was thinking about it.

jonny_k

Peace "noble"

peace
Here is the difficulty if we accept Rashad Khalifa interpretation
If there will still be Messengers after Mohammed, how will they prove they are Messengers?

JK- Ofcourse GOD will send them with irrefutable signs/miracles like RK was sent with the miracle of code-19. I thought you knew this already.

They will need Revelations, meaning Allah communicating with them in unambiguous terms. Now anyone can claim to be a Messenger, and refer to the Quran as the Book to be followed. All the sects referred to add to Quran, even Rashid Khalifah's, so their founders cannot qualify as Messengers, since the Quran is complete.

JK- Lemme make one point very clear. A human messenger is NOT A MESSENGER 24 HRS A DAY. That he wont be able to bear. Only at few instances of a particular time does he get inspiration. This can be shown with Muhammad and was the case with RK too
Major Error Committed by Muhammad
Muhammad the Man Disobeys Muhammad the Messenger

No believing man or believing woman, if GOD and His messenger issue any command, has any choice regarding that command. Anyone who disobeys GOD and His messenger has gone far astray.
Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man can marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.
I hope this is clear.

I keep my mind open on the subject, but if I take the example of Joseph and his brothers, they were all Prophets and they do not seem to have been Messengers. I believe a Prophet is someone who has a line of communication with Allah, meaning guided through Revelations, and a Messenger is a Prophet who has a Message to deliver.
And Allah knows best

JK- This is just silly. It doesnt matter of what they seem or not. If they are commisoned by GOD then they are mesengers/ones sent(Rasool). Remember Rasool also means "Ones Sent". And no a Prophet is a messenger who comes with a scripture and in the previous links i posted this is explained in detail. Satan has duped the Hislamics to turn the meanings around 180 degrees. Now theyr exposed. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace sister "samia"

I think there is another question which people do not ask, because they do not think it exists What is the difference between nabi and nabi? Just as we know that there is 3abd (singular of 3abeed) and 3abd(from 3ibaad); we have nabi (from nabiyyiin) and nabi (anbiyaa&#039.

JK- These are just two forms of plurals for the same word like in "Rasool" we have "Rusul" and "Mursaleen". They both mean the same. Arabic does have various forms of root words which have the same meaning. Also like 'arbaeen/'arbaoon both meaning forty, 'ishreen/'ishroon both menaing twenty etc. This is not uncommon in Arabic. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace sieter "samia",

I believe that the confusion comes from the mixing of the two meanings of nabi, and then comparing "anbiyaa'" to " messengers".

JK- No it has nothing to do with this.

Messenger is a very wide word. Allah called Jibril (messenger) and his book (messenger), too.

JK- True and this shows once again why Muhammad cant be the last messenger. GOD Bless!

unknownuser

Salam Samia

What is the link between "Abeed & Nabiyyin" as well between "Ibaad & Anbiyaa", cause I could not find any link to say that Nabi follow what you suhggested regarding Abd, I'm talking grammatically btw

Salam

jonny_k

Peace sister "samia",

I think the problem with RK is that he "felt" the difference, but could not put his finger on it; so he claimed to be a "messenger", simply because the verse says about Mohammad (khatem alnabiyyiin). He (RK) did not realize that the verse did not say (khatem alanbiyaa&#039. He should have called himself "nabi as from anbiyyaa'" and not rasoul, who is sent with a scripture.

JK- No as i mentioned before Rasool can even mean one sent forward with a duty. He can also be sent forward with an existing message and this is the key point your missing. A messeneger does NOT have to bring a new message. Nowhere does the Quran say or indicate that. A messenger may well confirm an existing message and bring it purified to the people which is exactly what RK did, thus completing the function of the messenger mentioned in 381. Hope u got it now. GOD Bless!

Samia

'arbaeen/'arbaoon both meaning forty, 'ishreen/'ishroon both menaing twenty

These are not different plurals; these are grammar-based differences, just like a "fat7a" or a "damma" at the end of a noun.

As for "rusul" and "mursaleen", there IS a difference in the meaning.

Salaam Ahmed. You wrote

What is the link between "Abeed & Nabiyyin" as well between "Ibaad & Anbiyaa", cause I could not find any link to say that Nabi follow what you suhggested regarding Abd, I'm talking grammatically btw

There is no link. It is an example of one word having two different plurals, each indicating a different meaning. Another example kateb writer ,hence kuttaab; or clerk, hence kataba

jonny_k

Peace sister "samia",

'arbaeen/'arbaoon both meaning forty, 'ishreen/'ishroon both menaing twenty

These are not different plurals; these are grammar-based differences, just like a "fat7a" or a "damma" at the end of a noun.

JK- Yes true andso are rusul/mursaleen. they are type of variants.

As for "rusul" and "mursaleen", there IS a difference in the meaning.

JK- Could you please tell me what the difference on meaning is? GOD Bless!

Samia

Salaam JK

Yes true andso are rusul/mursaleen. they are type of variants.

No, not the same. arbaoon and arbaeen are the same word, not a type of variant.

As for rusul and mursaleen, these are two different derivatives of the same root. rusul plural noun, mursaleen plural positive participle. All rusul are mursaleen but not all mursaleen are rusul. Just like the difference between apple and fruit; or even more, between murdered and dead.

If you scan through the qur'aan for "mursaleen" you will find it for obvious that you can't replace rusul for mursaleen and keep the same meaning.

noble

Peace jonny_k
I can see you feel very strongly about RK, so I will prefer not to argue with you about it.
My old position was that there will be other messengers after Mohammed, but now I have been convinced that this is not the case, because in order to be a Messenger (Human) you have to be a Prophet.
There cannot be a Human Messenger that is not a Prophet. So Mohammed being the last Prophet, he is also the last (human) Messenger.
And Allah knows best.
Not you, not me not RK but Allah...

jonny_k

Peace sister "samia",

No, not the same. arbaoon and arbaeen are the same word, not a type of variant.

As for rusul and mursaleen, these are two different derivatives of the same root. rusul plural noun, mursaleen plural positive participle. All rusul are mursaleen but not all mursaleen are rusul. Just like the difference between apple and fruit; or even more, between murdered and dead.

If you scan through the qur'aan for "mursaleen" you will find it for obvious that you can't replace rusul for mursaleen and keep the same meaning.

JK- The difference between dead and murdered doesnt seem to apply to this pair of terms at all. It may well be that grammatically the use of only one of the two terms may suit but still it doesnt effect the MEANING and thats our point aint it? Ill go through the terms usage in the Quran and lets see whether there is a difference in meaning
We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers(Rusul)...
These are GOD's revelations. We recite them through you*, truthfully, for you are amongst the messengers(mursaleen).
These messengers(Rusul)...
Now take a look at this verse where BOTH terms are mentioned
Messengers(Rusul) before you have been rejected, and they steadfastly persevered in the face of rejection. They were persecuted until our victory came to them. Such is GOD's system that will never change. The history of My messengers(Mursaleen) thus sets the precedents for you.
Now could you please tell me wheres the difference in meaning between the two words here? I dont see any. GOD Bless!

jonny_k

Peace "noble",

Peace jonny_k
I can see you feel very strongly about RK, so I will prefer not to argue with you about it.
My old position was that there will be other messengers after Mohammed, but now I have been convinced that this is not the case, because in order to be a Messenger (Human) you have to be a Prophet.

JK- And what exactly made you believe this? Where is the proof? Ive given lots of proof to show the contrary.

There cannot be a Human Messenger that is not a Prophet. So Mohammed being the last Prophet, he is also the last (human) Messenger.
And Allah knows best.
Not you, not me not RK but Allah...

JK- This is the same excuse bro "Fahad(Saladin)" has given but it is mere conjecture. I told him that in this case GOD could have well said "..wa khaatamun nabiyeen WA basharan rasoolan" i.e. "final prophet and human messenger" but none of the latter terms have been used just nabiyeen. Moreover it doesnt make any sense that GOD should not inspire anyone directly anymore after Muhammad. This is what the Hislamics say who want to make Muhammad their idol. The Quran says every ummah(community/nation) will recive a messenger before it gets destroyed and there are many out there who havent received one simply because pf the fact that in every age new communities popup. So the sunni claim that every community in the past received it is ridiculous to say the least. I hope this is clear. GOD Bless!

noble

Peace
Bro jonny_k
The whole of the Planet now is one Ummah. No barrier of communications anymore, thanks to technology.
There is an alternative view among the Muslim Brotherhood that "every one hundred years or so there will be a muslim referred to as a mujaddid who will bring back people to the true meaning of the Message, one of them having been Hassan AlBannah".
So who is right?
Quran for me is enough, It is the Messenger, and speaks for Itself by Allah's leave...

unknownuser

This is my view

The well-known difference between a Prophet and a Messenger is that a Messenger is one to whom a law is revealed and he is commanded to convey it, whilst a Prophet is one to whom a law is revealed but he is not commanded to convey it. But this distinction is not free of problems, because a Prophet is also commanded to call people, convey the Message and judge among the people.

?Verily, We did send down the Torah to Moses, therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allaah?s Will, judged for the Jews?

So the Prophets of the Children of Israel judged by the Torah which Allaah had revealed to Moses.

with regard to the aayah

?but he is the Messenger of Allaah and the last (end) of the Prophets?

and why it did not say the last of the Messengers ? the end of the Message does not mean the end of Prophethood, but the end of Prophethood does mean the end of the Message. Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said ?There will be no Prophet after me,? and he did not say, there will be no Messenger after me.

Thus we know that there is no Messenger and no Prophet after him (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); he was the last of the Prophets and of the Messengers, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

I agree with you totally

Cheers

Ah! my great friend is back D !!

How've u been brother?

unknownuser