You Have Been Warned
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Bro Ahmed,
Peace
Bro H Y is very generous, allowing for his pdf book being free of charge.
Since as far as I am concerned he is an authority on Islamic matters, in my eye, so what he says I will tend to accept.
Therefore I agree with you that Believers should fear Allah always.
Thank you for your patience, but next time, take it easy...
Kind salams
Noble -
Bro Ahmed,
Peace
Bro H Y is very generous, allowing for his pdf book being free of charge.
Since as far as I am concerned he is an authority on Islamic matters, in my eye, so what he says I will tend to accept.
Therefore I agree with you that Believers should fear Allah always.
Thank you for your patience, but next time, take it easy...
Kind salams
NobleYeh mate, I read most of his books, I agree with most of what he says, as far as I remember I only disagree with him regarding the Mahdi, while I was brought to believe that a Mahdi will come, as I grow up I found the idea does not make sense to me, what do you think?
also I'm very patient with those whom I care about, and sure I mostely care about those who show clear signs of intellligence, I really hate wasting my time with the dumb deaf and blind despite I try hard first
my stand is simple bro, i only argue if I have concrete knowledge and I can back it up "NOT WITH MY OWN MADE UP EVIDENCES" but by others and on top of that list is Allah
Salam
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http//www.harunyahya.com/books/deep_thinking/fear/fear1.php
In the very first paragraph of this link, it states
"Allah's appointed angels are constantly monitoring and inscribing everything that you do. The moment you say a word they write it down. Your every step, every thought, everything that you do, including obligations which have been postponed, are all recorded without omission."
My concern is that why is there such a need for these "body guards" (angels) to do the works of an all-powerful, omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipresent (all-present) Allah?
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http//www.harunyahya.com/books/deep_thinking/fear/fear1.php
In the very first paragraph of this link, it states
"Allah's appointed angels are constantly monitoring and inscribing everything that you do. The moment you say a word they write it down. Your every step, every thought, everything that you do, including obligations which have been postponed, are all recorded without omission."
My concern is that why is there such a need for these "body guards" (angels) to do the works of an all-powerful, omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipresent (all-present) Allah?
Danish
please man, if Allah didn't explain His actions, don't ask me to explain it then, for example I don't know why Allah created two eyes for us, or two holes in the nose etc etc...
see, I have zillions of questions that no one on this bloody earth will be able to answer, so i tend to avoid these silly questions because for me to participate in such non sense means that I don't know Allah well, now Allah told us in the Quran that you said you follow, "He can't be questioned regarding what He does but we will be questioned regarding what we do"
Salam
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Hello Ahmed,
I guess I didn't make myself clear or you didn't catch my point. Let me put it in another perspective
Creating angels as body guards or helpers, undermines Allah's attributable strengths, does it not?
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Danish Creating angels as body guards or helpers, undermines Allah's attributable strengths, does it not?
On the contrary, a God whose essence (ql dhat) is present in this world can't really be god, can he?
I'm expecting an answer, not a question. Please don't divert my question with another question? If you can answer, then do so and if you can't, then at least acknowledge it.
Prove your hypothesis logically, please.
I'm asking a question, not proving an answer? If you think my question was not logical, then explain yourself.
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Peace Danish
God is said to have helpers, but not so out of weakness , therefore not undermining any attributions given Him in the quran. I like to think of God as an architect. Like an architect God has the plans and has his workers carry them out for him.
Joe
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DanishI'm expecting an answer, not a question. Please don't divert my question with another question? If you can answer, then do so and if you can't, then at least acknowledge it.
Fine.
Again for your pleasure
On the contrary, a God whose essence (ql dhat) is present in this world can't really be god.I'm asking a question, not proving an answer? If you think my question was not logical, then explain yourself.
A question can neither be logical or illogical as it does not assert anything.
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Peace Danish
God is said to have helpers, but not so out of weakness , therefore not undermining any attributions given Him in the quran. I like to think of God as an architect. Like an architect God has the plans and has his workers carry them out for him.
Joe
Peace Joe,
You see, Allah having "helpers" is the crux of my concern to begin with. In 17111, it mentions essentially that HE does not need any partners nor and any protectors.
Once again, my analysis would stem out from an historical standpoint.
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61/14
O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of God As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to towards God?" (man ansaari ILAA Allah) Said the disciples, "We are God's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed.What Isaa says here is crucial, that one becomes an ansaar/aider TOWARDS Allah, i.e. in the establishment of Allah's Will.
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61/14
O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of God As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to towards God?" (man ansaari ILAA Allah) Said the disciples, "We are God's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed.What Isaa says here is crucial, that one becomes an ansaar/aider TOWARDS Allah, i.e. in the establishment of Allah's Will.
Was it Isaa who said the above verse or was it someone (who wrote this down) said that Muhammad said that Gabriel said that Allah said that Isaa said?
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Hi brother Danish,
I understand your concern, and to a degree share them also.
But, can I ask you something?
Let's forget angels for a moment. Let's assume a 100% scientific view of god. Lets say that God is simply the sustainer of the laws of the universe. This is in itself gives God all the power possible to achieve, at least within these laws.
Now, science says "Gravity pulls the apple down to the ground". Would you then argue that "God is weakened because god uses gravity? Why could god not pull the apple to the ground himself?"
Nadeem
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Peace Danish,
You have asked a very deep question, which I have been wondering about too for a long time. Following are my thoughts and current understanding about this subject. While these may not be the right answers, I just wanted to share my thoughts. Only The God knows all the answers and I pray to Him to improve my understanding and grant me knowledge.
The God can choose to do whatever He wants to do even though He might not need to do it, and that does not take anything away from His attribute of omnipresence and omniscience. The God does not need any helpers. He has created the jinn and the mankind to serve Him but He does not need any servers or helpers. Malaika serve Him also by carrying out His orders and commands even though He doesn't need their help. Asking why The God created malaika is akin to asking why He has created us.
All of us are part of the ONE REALITY, and parts of the One Reality have been given free will; malaika's existence could be an offshoot of this process. So even though we think that it is the malaika doing something, it is actually The God Himself who is doing it. Brother Nadeem makes a similar point.
We should accept Allah's will and submit to Him. There are a lot of mysteries which we have not been told about in this world for the purpose of testing our faith and belief and The God willing we will be given all the answers in the life hereafter. In the meantime we should be patient about things we do not understand and keep serving The God by submitting to Him and doing good deeds.
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Hi brother Danish,
I understand your concern, and to a degree share them also.
But, can I ask you something?
Let's forget angels for a moment. Let's assume a 100% scientific view of god. Lets say that God is simply the sustainer of the laws of the universe. This is in itself gives God all the power possible to achieve, at least within these laws.
Now, science says "Gravity pulls the apple down to the ground". Would you then argue that "God is weakened because god uses gravity? Why could god not pull the apple to the ground himself?"
Nadeem
Science knows "gravity", but does science know who or what GOD is. Assuming that gravity was actually "GOD", then the apple can be taken out of gavity (into space) and defeat "GOD's" strength to pull it back. How can you make such a comparison, Nadeem? Both the "bomb" and the "gravity" analogies failed.
Sorry bro, no offense intended. I'm enjoying this good discussion though. But lets get back to my previous crucial question and get a solution.
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Dear Bro Ahmed...
Salam and best salutations
I am not sure about the Imam Al-Mehdi...
Now I have this extra thing to say about the abuse of Fear used by some groups (I was a victim).
Some so-called brothers use the concept of fear to exploit their brothers, as they quote that the ones in charge call the shots within a group, if you do not do what they say, this means you do not fear them, and since you do not fear them that means you do not fear Allah, and before you know it, you become their puppets, and in the worst case they make a suicide bomber out of you... So this is why I am reluctant to see the Fear of Allah in this distorted light...
Kind blessings
Noble -
Hi brother,
My analogies are failing as you are applying them to situations that the analogy was not meant to explain )
but does science know who or what GOD is.
Who's god?
That's the reason I tried to define god scientifically as the sustainer of the laws. As far as I know, even science agrees that there is "something" sustaining the laws, maybe it's energy, which they define as "something that makes something happen". So let's use the word "energy" instead. Since energy is something that makes something happen somehow, energy is 'all-mighty'. Wont you say?
Would you say that energy is anyless 'all-mighty' because it takes use of gravity to draw to bodies together?
See, here you can take a mental note. When I said "Gravity pulls the apple down to the ground", you somehow got the idea that I'm confining my self to the earth and it's gravitiational pull. Isn't that why you said
Assuming that gravity was actually "GOD", then the apple can be taken out of gavity (into space) and defeat "GOD's" strength to pull it back.And, even though I made it clear that "Lets say that God is simply the sustainer of the laws of the universe", you read me as if I limited god to one law which is gravity. Why?
Even if that apple is pulled out of earths gravity, it's still under the gravitational pull of some other heavenly body. And let's not forget the gravitational forces working within it to keep the mass of the apple together.
Hehe, maybe some gravitational forces are pulling us away from the point )
I do not know why god has chosen to split his tasks among "angels", but then again I don't know why the universe is split up in different types of atoms either )
I agree with Ahmed on this, we cannot know 'why', but we have a better chance at understanding 'how'.
Nadeem
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Hello Tanveer,
Peace Danish,
You have asked a very deep question, which I have been wondering about too for a long time. Following are my thoughts and current understanding about this subject. While these may not be the right answers, I just wanted to share my thoughts. Only The God knows all the answers and I pray to Him to improve my understanding and grant me knowledge.
The God can choose to do whatever He wants to do even though He might not need to do it, and that does not take anything away from His attribute of omnipresence and omniscience. The God does not need any helpers. He has created the jinn and the mankind to serve Him but He does not need any servers or helpers. Malaika serve Him also by carrying out His orders and commands even though He doesn't need their help. Asking why The God created malaika is akin to asking why He has created us.
All of us are part of the ONE REALITY, and parts of the One Reality have been given free will; malaika's existence could be an offshoot of this process. So even though we think that it is the malaika doing something, it is actually The God Himself who is doing it. Brother Nadeem makes a similar point.
We should accept Allah's will and submit to Him. There are a lot of mysteries which we have not been told about in this world for the purpose of testing our faith and belief and The God willing we will be given all the answers in the life hereafter. In the meantime we should be patient about things we do not understand and keep serving The God by submitting to Him and doing good deeds.
If all of us are part of ONE REALITY, then we should submit to REALITY and live our lives in accordance to what it dictates, no? Aren't all human affairs just that?
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Peace Danish,
By One Reality I meant The God, and in that case, yes, we should submit to The God and live our lives in accordance to what it dictates.
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Hi brother,
My analogies are failing as you are applying them to situations that the analogy was not meant to explain
but does science know who or what GOD is.
Who's god?
That's the reason I tried to define god scientifically as the sustainer of the laws. As far as I know, even science agrees that there is "something" sustaining the laws, maybe it's energy, which they define as "something that makes something happen". So let's use the word "energy" instead. Since energy is something that makes something happen somehow, energy is 'all-mighty'. Wont you say?
Would you say that energy is anyless 'all-mighty' because it takes use of gravity to draw to bodies together?
See, here you can take a mental note. When I said "Gravity pulls the apple down to the ground", you somehow got the idea that I'm confining my self to the earth and it's gravitiational pull. Isn't that why you said
Assuming that gravity was actually "GOD", then the apple can be taken out of gavity (into space) and defeat "GOD's" strength to pull it back.And, even though I made it clear that "Lets say that God is simply the sustainer of the laws of the universe", you read me as if I limited god to one law which is gravity. Why?
Even if that apple is pulled out of earths gravity, it's still under the gravitational pull of some other heavenly body. And let's not forget the gravitational forces working within it to keep the mass of the apple together.
Hehe, maybe some gravitational forces are pulling us away from the point
I do not know why god has chosen to split his tasks among "angels", but then again I don't know why the universe is split up in different types of atoms either
I agree with Ahmed on this, we cannot know 'why', but we have a better chance at understanding 'how'.
Nadeem
Ok, my apologies for that 'mental note'. But Nadeem, I'm afraid that you are alluding, assuming and mixing too many things up hither and thither; bomb, gravitational pull, sustainer, energy, atoms, etc., etc.
Here is a recapulation of my three concerns put together from this very thread alone
- Creating angels as body guards or helpers, undermines Allah's attributable strengths, does it not?
- Was it Isaa who said the above verse (6114) or was it someone (who wrote this down) said that Muhammad said that Gabriel said that Allah said that Isaa said?
- If all of us are part of ONE REALITY, then we should submit to REALITY and live our lives in accordance to what it dictates, no? Aren't all human affairs just that?
Lets not get ourselves entangled and carried away by illogical viewpoints and get to the bottom of it by logical, historical, scientific and realistic deductions. Giving a scientific view of a "sustainer" doesn't prove anything about the "sustainer" itself. It is rather a philosophical or a mystical one.