The Tragedy of TYRANNICAL-minds (formerly 'free-minds')

mquran

Dear Believers in Al-Quraan (AQ)

I have refrained from posting in FM for the last month or so although I have kept up-to-date with the topics being discussed. This hiatus has given me an opportunity to reevaluate Free-Minds and thus offer my humble opinions as to how I believe Free-Minds should be.

Free-Minds is the only forum on internet which does not presuppose that people who discuss AQ are automatically part of what is known in the world as 'the muslims'. This uniqueness is not iconic but serves as a platform from which we can launch into the deepest recesses of al-quraan. I cherish that platform and I hope you do as well

However, as Allah has promised, al-baathil/falsehood will gather like scum before being washed away by the ever-flowing al-haqq (13/17) and so it is the case with every human situation including forum which has become infested with certain individuals who do not or choose not to understand what this forum is about.

As Layth has defined Free-Minds as 'has been created for all people who have a desire to allow God into their lives and follow His path alone..' and that this is 'is fully outlined in the final Book of God (The Quran) which was revealed centuries ago...'

This implies that al-quraan has to be treated in the most reverent manner in this forum. It is up to the moderators to enforce this but - and I address this to people who believe in al-quraan as it should be believed in (henceforth known as 'believers&#039- it is up to us uphold solidarity and disallow people who treat al-quraan as a jest to gain any footing and continue their campaign of diversion.

Please note This is NOT a suggestion to stop stop allowing criticisms of AQ. Criticisms of AQ can help us to see just how invulnerable AQ is. Rather, this is a suggestion to insert fairness into a discussion. I have noticed that under the guise of freedom, much disparagement has been hurled at AQ. When the disparagement was challenged, we're either stonewalled or maligned. We believers , including the owner and moderators themselves have been made the victims in a domain which swears to uphold God's book.

The problem? We refuse to judge by al-quraan. We have chucked away the shackles of traditionalism but have tacitly imported the shackles of modernism. We are told that AQ proposes laws which are barbaric and out-of-date and yet we still call people who say this as 'brother' or 'sister'. Is this right?

AQ
Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, , and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. (4/60)

Allah is clearly telling us what these critics are all about. If you do not wish to refer to Allah, by definition you wish to refer to at-taghuut (authority figures who TRANSGRESS) and yet these people are openly telling the believers to do so. AQ tells us that this is shaitaan's wish.

If we need more proof, we are told by some of these people that their indulgence in alcohol is OK and that they find triumph from influencing people to consume alcohol. Alcohol, part of al-khamr or intoxicants is the work of ASH-SHAITAAN and we are to steer clear away from it (5/90-91). If anyone disagrees with AQ, fine but should believers be made to listen to their satanic discourses in the believer's own area?

What happens when we do not judge according to Allah's will? We become fasiqeen (5/47) and will any be destroyed EXCEPT the fasiqeen (46/35)

I have chosen to be inactive for the simple reason that I feel my responses will be obfuscated by their volume of non-believers in this forum. Until we the believers take charge and say, this is a QURANIC forum and if you want to discuss, discuss under Quran's rules, no progress shall be made. Do not be afraid to label people who advocated kufr as they should be labelled and treat them as they choose to be treated.
Do not let free-minds become TYRANNICAL-minds.

Wasalam.

Navid

Peace mquran

I've noticed that you haven't been posting; I consider this a great loss for me and all of FM. Your posts are very well thought out and insightful. I hope that if everything gets fixed, you will post again.

As for your post, I've felt the exact same way at times. As you said, criticisms of the Qur'an are good for all of us, but it seems to have surpassed that. We all have to play by the same rules for it to be fair.

Peace

Alen

Salam.

I agree with you and i think we should also work on the department of trust. People don't trust each other as they use to or as in old days.

The question is, are gonna just argue about what this ayya mean, how do we define Hell and Heaven, where Allah Most Wise is, how to explain this or that or are we gonna JUST follow Qur'an and remind each other of laws in the Qur'an.

If someone says"Is alcohol allowed or not?" the answer should be a quote from the Qur'an, the proof from the Qur'an.

Let's not argue, we have enough of that in the Mid-East.
May Allah Most Powerful has Mercy on all of us.
Salam.

phoenix1

peace mquran,

you are making the same mistake the "unbelievers" (as you call them) make. You are assuming that the other side is wrong.
I agree that there have been some posters who launch all out attacks on the Quran and the people who regard it highly . That shouldn't be, and isn't allowed.
What should be allowed is for people to treat the Quran not as God's book, but just A book. Not everyone on this forum needs to have been ingrained with the idea that the Quran is the infallible word of God.
What you are doing, and you might not want to be doing this, is discouraging questions. This kind of talk will only discourage people to ask tough questions because they will be "attacking" the Quran.
So yes, I don't like people saying "the quran is an outdated, stupid book."
But I don't mind people saying "the quran is an outdated book because of this verse..." because then people can discuss the verse.
But instead of people discussing the actual verses, it becomes an issue of whether you have "faith" in the quran or not.
It goes something like this
A- "I don't like what the quran says in these verses..."
B-"the Quran says..."
A-"but that's not a very good explanation because..."
B-"you don't understand it because you don't believe the quran is from God, you are a kafir, unbeliever etc"

and then the thread get's moved to the "Quranic Divinity" section and people start attacking eachother with words like "deluded" and "faithless."

The problem is simply that certain people don't like certain people. Nothing to do with the Quran. At all.
People just need to change their behavior.

I'll just say it because it's true...
No one on this forum knows the absolute truth
No matter how crazy it sounds, there is actually a possibility for everyone to be wrong o

mquran

I've noticed that you haven't been posting; I consider this a great loss for me and all of FM. Your posts are very well thought out and insightful. I hope that if everything gets fixed, you will post again.

You're too kind, sir. I have taken far more out FM than i've given. I'm more than happy to correspond via email though if you like although I have to get through a backlog.

As for your post, I've felt the exact same way at times. As you said, criticisms of the Qur'an are good for all of us, but it seems to have surpassed that. We all have to play by the same rules for it to be fair.

I don't think these devils want it to be fair. They are out for their own gratification and aggrandisement. I just hate to see to see this place turned into a home for their obscene apologetics.

Layth

Peace MQ,

I agree fully that the priority is upon each of us to dedicate our words, actions, possesions, and our very lives to service of the Lord of the Worlds.

I believe your dissapointment is partially caused by your desire to change what cannot be changed...

We have been told by the Almighty that most people do not believe in God...We have been told that most of those who believe do so while setting-up partners...We have been told that many follow Satan and believe they are guided...

Therefore, if this forum is only a small reflection of the real world then we should come to expect this large mix of people.

The solution is not to lock everyone out, but to react in the manner that God has told us...

When someone is being ignorant, simply let them be and respond to them with `peace'.

When the Quran is being ridiculed or mocked, then the discussion is to be abondoned/walked-away from until the theme of talk changes.

When we speak, we should be truthful and sincere...

A good word is like a good tree which spreads and multiplies, while a bad word is like a bad tree which is uprooted from the gorund.

The goal is not this life of vanity and arrogance, but that the real goal is the abode of the Hereafter.

This worldly life is nothing more than games and a diversion, and the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are righteous. Do you not understand? (632)

Navid

Peace

I agree with you phoenix, but at the same time mquran is right about the fairness thing. I've experiences this myself a few times; it seems that some people get this privilege to not respond to my arguments completely, but when I even THINK about doing the same it automatically is a no-no. Also, it is painfully obvious that a few people here have an agenda. They're not here to discuss things to get as close as possible to the truth, rather, they are here to subtly mock people and convince others of their beliefs.

I disagree with you on the kafir thing. Yes, some people do this, but I wish freeminds wasn't associated with them. I, for one never discriminate anyone for their beliefs. It is very possible to have a nice discussion with say, a Christian. In fact, this has happened before. I remember there was a very fruitful discussion between oneway and CavemanDoctor. I admired oneway very much; he brought up good points and responded to every single one of CavemanDoctor's arguments, and no discrimination between them happened. It seems to me that SOME people (won't name names) with different beliefs such as oneway, now are different than one way in the way they post. This is why all this has started. If others discussed things the way oneway did, I'd imagine that none of this would happen. However, that's not the case. As I stated earlier, a few people have hidden agendas and this makes the discussions worse because they don't discuss in the proper manner.

Sorry for the rant. Peace.

mquran

PhoenixWhat you are doing, and you might not want to be doing this, is discouraging questions. This kind of talk will only discourage people to ask tough questions because they will be "attacking" the Quran.

How ? I was the one who asked certain people to bring their questions so we can discuss them. What was given instead was a mockery of discussion.

Phoenix , get this straight please I am in favour of discussions but
muscle handshake bravo rotfl yay

without any substance constitutes mockery by people as blur and shallow as a muddy ditch. The believers are being mocked and unless they take a stand and say 'we dont take crap in this forum', we will continue to be in this state.

PhoenixBut I don't mind people saying "the quran is an outdated book because of this verse..." because then people can discuss the verse.

My first response to this is 'outdated compared to what'. No rejector has ever dared to answer this.

But instead of people discussing the actual verses, it becomes an issue of whether you have "faith" in the quran or not.

This is a baseless remark. Few people here are so shallow. People don't discuss the actual verses for simple reason The rejectors DO NOT DARE to answer. They are here to mock.

A good tactic is simply to disappear (go shopping or on vacations), return and forget a discussion ever took place. These eunuchs of apologetics are a disgrace. Please don't say anyone accuses them of lack of faith. No one cares.

Fahad1

Salam alaikum.

I agree 100% with bro Mquran .

And I hope that these things gets fixed, so we can have him back.

mquran

agree fully that the priority is upon each of us to dedicate our words, actions, possesions, and our very lives to service of the Lord of the Worlds.

I believe your dissapointment is partially caused by your desire to change what cannot be changed...

We have been told by the Almighty that most people do not believe in God...We have been told that most of those who believe do so while setting-up partners...We have been told that many follow Satan and believe they are guided...

Therefore, if this forum is only a small reflection of the real world then we should come to expect this large mix of people.

The solution is not to lock everyone out, but to react in the manner that God has told us...

When someone is being ignorant, simply let them be and respond to them with `peace'.

When the Quran is being ridiculed or mocked, then the discussion is to be abondoned/walked-away from until the theme of talk changes.

When we speak, we should be truthful and sincere...

A good word is like a good tree which spreads and multiplies, while a bad word is like a bad tree which is uprooted from the gorund.

The goal is not this life of vanity and arrogance, but that the real goal is the abode of the Hereafter.

This worldly life is nothing more than games and a diversion, and the abode of the Hereafter is far better for those who are righteous. Do you not understand? (632)

Layth, my disappointment is with lack of progress but you're right Some people cannot be changed, this is promised in AQ itself. However, you need to look at what you're putting out into the world here. People come here expecting a discussion on AQ with the respect any ideology deserves yet they get to statements like Musa, Isa and Muhammad were possibly MADMEN. No answer was given, no indictments were made. Don't forget Layth that whatever we facilitate, we're responsible for (4/85). Some people are using this forum to psychologically gratify themselves. However at the end of the day, it's your choice. My post is merely a reminder. Perhaps I need to leave and start in the real world...

mquran

SaladinAnd I hope that these things gets fixed, so we can have him back.

Too kind brother but I'm here anyway. Where else am I going to go?

mquran

Damon, I used to criticise Dr Shabbir for his draconian style but when faced with these type of guys, i think Shabbir has a lot of sense. Being kind only gives them the scent of ur blood.

phoenix1

peace

The thing is that this forum, like everyother forum, will have it's share of immature idiots. There is nothing we can do about that.
What's happened to this forum is that it isn't a small forum with only a few regular posters any more.

mquran,
I understand you, but we can't say that everyone should treat the Quran as a divine book. In fact, no one here should because no one here knows exactly what the Quran is saying (in it's totality). The only possibility, then, is to look at it as nothing more than a book written a millenium ago. We can only read it and discuss it and decide whether it has divine qualities or not.
I'm not saying we should change our beliefs, but just our attitude in discussing it with people who are skeptical about it's value to mankind (and I'm one of them, I guess).

noble

Peace
I agree fully with mquran...

unknownuser

Peace MQ,

I have decided to delete my post in this thread.

For one, I already know the reaction I will get for it. Second of all, it is not something that hasn't been said before. It will not change anything with these people as Layth has already pointed out.

Peace,
Damon.

noble

Peace all genuine guidance seekers
I think the appropriate response was in Layth's post.
May I add from memory in the Quran Do not insult what they associate with God, lest in their ignorance they will insult God Himself.
So the best strategy is to ignore the deaf, dumb, blind, as they will not return.
To them their Deen and to me mine...
Salam

unknownuser