What is our religion, what is our mission on Earth...??
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The word "mecca" as well as "becca" are each mentioned once. However, mecca simply means "destruction."
yes. thank you for clearing that up, OpenMind.
peaceI have to say that was very impressive evidneces, thanks for increasing my knowledge
Cheers
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Peace and welcome, express,
Some profound questions you have here. Please excuse my brevity but each one of these questions can be a 37-page thread in itself...
who are we
Who is we? If you mean this forum, then it's a hodgepodge of personalities - the majority of whom are striving to be muslimeen as described in al-qur'an.
what is our religion
Islam is the deen.
what is our mission on earth
To purify and prepare your soul for the next phase.
what will lead us to heaven, or hell
Harmony or disharmony.
What abt the five pillars
There is no mention of 5 pillars in al-qur'an. If it's details you want, then there are hundreds of pillars. If it's the bottomline, only 3. Believe in God, contribute to this world via good-will, and know that your actions and thoughts will have consequences .
are they all not worth it, why should we reject Hadies, On what proof....
There are literally hundreds if not thousands of posts on this site about hadith. The search option would do you justice here. My understanding, in a nutshell, is that
a) al-qur'an proclaims itself perfect, complete, providing every answer and explaining itself (this should be enough evidence for an objective seeker)
b) "imam" Bukhari's system of isnaad is quite possibly the most inaccurate way of passing down information, particularly over 200 years, and in a time of zero record keeping
c) hadith collectors had no authority/protection and were succeptible to the politics amd pressures of the timeThe common argument is, "but al-qur'an states that we are to obey the messenger". Quite simply, the messenger is no longer with us, but the message he delivered is still here.
Can it be any clearer than 7185?
Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things GOD has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith, beside this, do they believe in?
Peace,
Tay -
Salaam Tay,
Good post.
Salaam Express,
Yes, as long as my criterion is the quran, Tay's post and the ayats I gave earlier should suffice.
But if you are expecting the quran to have all the details of "religion" as most "Muslims" now know, well, you might get disappointed. Because you might find the quran totally alien to common "Islamic" practices.Good luck.
=adley=
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Salaamun alaikum Express,
ExpressI am a new member at this web site, I have been reading for a while at this site, some of the stuff is made me very confused abt my true religion Islam... some people or I should say allot of people reject Hadies, at first I use to think these people are just not Muslims, rejecting the five pillars of Islam? But now I have to clear up some stuff and want to here from everyone, learn the wright thing, who are we what is our religion, what is our mission on earth, what will lead us to heaven, or hell. What abt the five pillars, are they all not worth it, why should we reject Hadies, On what proof.... I ask u please to answer these questions, I know there are many people out here, and people who are not even registered will want to know some answers.
When you leave the world of hadith, it becomes not about hadith or even Al-Quraan (AQ). It becomes about you, your life and your destiny. You might even find some hadith helping you along the right path, but then again, you could also find that Kant, Neitzsche, Heidegger, Confucius and a thousand other ideologues doing the same.
who are we
I dunno about we, but I am a human seeking to become a human being.
what is our religion,
My deen is al-islaam which means that my relationship with my Lord is that of submission towards the attainment of salaam/peace/security/safety. It follows then that I (try to) make exclusive my service to be only for Him.
what is our mission on earth,
Following from my deen above, my mission would be to establish 'salaam' on earth, a state of absolute safety in the most complete sense. Of course, I am far from this mission.
what will lead us to heaven, or hell.
A life of imaan/conviction and amal-salih/corrective actions.
What abt the five pillars, are they all not worth it,
Zakat and fasting are worth it, I think.
why should we reject Hadies
Because hadith while it may have some truth, does not gurantee itself like AQ.
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AdleyAs for religion, I am no longer a "Muslim" but rather a "muslim"
Imho, while it's possible to be 'muslim' or 'not muslim', it's not possible to escape being 'Muslim'. 'Muslim' is a certain pan-ethnicity to which you and I both belong by virtue of our heritage.
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I thank u all for letting ur opinion out, but this isn't clear yet i want to learn more, so I can teach my self, and others in my family and friends the wright thing, i want to live my life the wright way, but I need ur help and some answers.
-Thank You
The meaning of Islam
83] Do they seek for other than the deen of Allah? While all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.
Deen - referrs to QS.12/76 - means law. So everythings in universe have been bowed to God's law, hence He ask to men do they seek for other than the deen of Allah ?
Islam means bowed to His Will, earth has bowed to His Will, worms have too, so they all are moslems. So deen is a system for human and universe in adhere to Allah's Will. Deen has nothing to do with religion, because relegion represents rituism, whilst deen represents norms.
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Islam means bowed to His Will, earth has bowed to His Will, worms have too, so they all are moslems. So deen is a system for human and universe in adhere to Allah's Will. Deen has nothing to do with religion, because relegion represents rituism, whilst deen represents norms.
exactly.
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I thank all of u, for giving generous answers, it really helped my understanding. I learned some new things and have a new change. But I still and will not reject the Hadies no matter what i read, or listen, by following it, it brings no harm, but i think I stay more involved in my deen by doing everything it states, the pillars of Islam. By rejecting the hadith I feel gulity, and I can't walk with this guilt. I thank u all again, it was very kind of u, God bless u all.
-Thank You
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When you leave the world of hadith, it becomes not about hadith or even Al-Quraan (AQ). It becomes about you, your life and your destiny.
Leave the world of hadith and even Al-Quran and you'll fullfill your destiny. yeah but yay
I dunno about we, but I am a human seeking to become a human being.
Hmmm, a human becoming a human being, LOL!!!! ??? rotfl brickwall
Imho, while it's possible to be 'muslim' or 'not muslim', it's not possible to escape being 'Muslim'. 'Muslim' is a certain pan-ethnicity to which you and I both belong by virtue of our heritage.
An 'opinion' and that too a 'humble' one? A 'muslim' or 'not a muslim' but a 'Muslim'. ??? rotfl brickwall
Zakat and fasting are worth it, I think.
In one of his posts, when I mentioned "..don't you think?", to which he boastfully replied, "No, I don't think." elektro
why should we reject Hadies
Because hadith while it may have some truth, does not gurantee itself like AQ.
A worthless and contradictory statement in relations to the first quote above. jedi
Listen, even YOUR 'Allah' will go nuts on the quotes above and welcome you to take HIS place instead and call it PEACE. welcome
Mquran, watch this video once again and contemplate on the mirrored effects you?re thumping about http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBplylx55Zc&mode=related&search=mullah
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Peace
who are we
Muslimeen if we're abiding by the obligations.
what is our religion,
To serve God is the highest standard .
what is our mission on earth,
To serve and to prove to ourselves our worth.
what will lead us to heaven, or hell.
That which you put forth.
What abt the five pillars, are they all not worth it,
Maybe, maybe not. Some of the pillars may not be in conformity with the concepts in the quran which they may be commentaries on.
why should we reject Hadies, On what proof....
The best hadeeth is the one with truth. If you want to follow the words of God in the quran then any ahadeeth in agreement with those narrations are good to go.
Joe
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When you leave the world of hadith, it becomes not about hadith or even Al-Quraan (AQ). It becomes about you, your life and your destiny.
Leave the world of hadith and even Al-Quran and you'll fullfill your destiny. yeah but yay
I dunno about we, but I am a human seeking to become a human being.
Hmmm, a human becoming a human being, LOL!!!! ??? rotfl brickwall
Imho, while it's possible to be 'muslim' or 'not muslim', it's not possible to escape being 'Muslim'. 'Muslim' is a certain pan-ethnicity to which you and I both belong by virtue of our heritage.
An 'opinion' and that too a 'humble' one? A 'muslim' or 'not a muslim' but a 'Muslim'. ??? rotfl brickwall
Zakat and fasting are worth it, I think.
In one of his posts, when I mentioned "..don't you think?", to which he boastfully replied, "No, I don't think." elektro
why should we reject Hadies
Because hadith while it may have some truth, does not gurantee itself like AQ.
A worthless and contradictory statement in relations to the first quote above. jedi
Listen, even YOUR 'Allah' will go nuts on the quotes above and welcome you to take HIS place instead and call it PEACE. welcome
Mquran, watch this video once again and contemplate on the mirrored effects you?re thumping about http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBplylx55Zc&mode=related&search=mullah
Danish, calm down. Can people answer someone asking a question without you coming in and mocking, for no reason? There is no need for such acts. If you're not going to contribute, stick with trying to disprove Qur'anic divinity (your agenda), in that forum, please.
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Danish, calm down. Can people answer someone asking a question without you coming in and mocking, for no reason?
Oh but there IS a reason and that is, our man was thoroughly beaten in his 'fear of an Allah' thread and needs to vent somewhere.
There is no need for such acts. If you're not going to contribute, stick with trying to disprove Qur'anic divinity (your agenda), in that forum, please.
And 'trying' is barely fitting in this case too. Did you see the post? It was pathetic. He read 'bismillah' and he thought that's all the Quran had to say
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When you leave the world of hadith, it becomes not about hadith or even Al-Quraan (AQ). It becomes about you, your life and your destiny.
Leave the world of hadith and even Al-Quran and you'll fullfill your destiny. yeah but yay
Danish, does the UN do literacy sponsorship for displaced miscreants like you? Your ability to read and interpret is abysmal. What I'm saying is that AQ isn't an end in itself but serves as a barometer and guide for the self, but coming from the paindoo madrassas you're from, you judge AQ with the same myopic eyes.
Hmmm, a human becoming a human being, LOL!!!! ??? rotfl brickwall
Once again, showing your poor reading. Do you not understand the philosophical implications of 'being'. Ask your fellow miscreant Enquirer, he'll tell you like he explained about Neitxxehe
An 'opinion' and that too a 'humble' one? A 'muslim' or 'not a muslim' but a 'Muslim'. ??? rotfl brickwall
I know, a bit complicated for you, isnt it ? Let me clue you in you're still a 'Muslim' but were never a 'muslim'. How's that?
Mquran, watch this video once again and contemplate on the mirrored effects you?re thumping about http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBplylx55Zc&mode=related&search=mullah
All I see in that vid is a person who is unlikely to want a debate, reminding me of the ultra-secular mullahs like you and Enquirer/Lote-tree.
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Salaam express,
I thank all of u, for giving generous answers, it really helped my understanding. I learned some new things and have a new change. But I still and will not reject the Hadies no matter what i read, or listen, by following it, it brings no harm, but i think I stay more involved in my deen by doing everything it states, the pillars of Islam. By rejecting the hadith I feel gulity, and I can't walk with this guilt. I thank u all again, it was very kind of u, God bless u all.
-Thank You
Why do you feel guilty if you reject hadiths? Do you know that even the prophet himself is reported to have prohibited the writing of any hadith from him except quran? Don't you feel guilty if you disobey the messenger? The hadith compilers were the first to disobey the messenger, right? Have you ever thought that way?
Shahih Sunan Abu Dawud Book 25, Number 3640
Narrated Zayd ibn Thabit
Al-Muttalib ibn Abdullah ibn Hantab said Zayd ibn Thabit entered upon Mu'awiyah and asked him about a tradition. He ordered a man to write it. Zayd said The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) ordered us not to write any of his traditions. So he erased it.
Shahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234
Narrated Abu Qilaba
Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle ."
From the hadith above, the messenger is reported to have commanded branding eyes with heated iron. Do you feel guilty to reject the hadith?
PS Brother express, please don't feel offended by my post. I just want to open a new perspective to look at the hadith and to bring up thought provoking questions.
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Express I thank all of u, for giving generous answers, it really helped my understanding. I learned some new things and have a new change. But I still and will not reject the Hadies no matter what i read, or listen, by following it, it brings no harm, but i think I stay more involved in my deen by doing everything it states, the pillars of Islam. By rejecting the hadith I feel gulity, and I can't walk with this guilt. I thank u all again, it was very kind of u, God bless u all.
I understand your guilt, I think. It cannot be easy to do what one percieves to be 'rejecting the Prophet'.
Why not leave that issue for now and just focus on Al-Quraan (AQ) ? Do you read AQ much, Express? If so, what do you get from it? What is it asking of humankind? Maybe if you dived into AQ, you will find the hadith becoming more and more irrelevant. That's how it was for me I found AQ taking over my perception of religion and completely overshadowing anything else. Give AQ a chance to do this, Express.
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Salaam Express,
About that guilt, I can tell you that almost every one I know (who now follows the quran alone) felt that guilt. But actually it's not guilt as I understand it now. It's fear. The fear of no more having a "safe place" anymore. The fear of being torn apart from the inside. So I understand why you do not want to reject the hadiths. But try this, believe in The God on what He is saying in the quran. Just give The God a chance to explain to you for your own personal benefits. And see if the hadiths are still worth defending.
=adley=
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salaam adley,
About that guilt, I can tell you that almost every one I know (who now follows the quran alone) felt that guilt. But actually it's not guilt as I understand it now. It's fear. The fear of no more having a "safe place" anymore. The fear of being torn apart from the inside. So I understand why you do not want to reject the hadiths. But try this, believe in The God on what He is saying in the quran. Just give The God a chance to explain to you for your own personal benefits. And see if the hadiths are still worth defending.
after a lot of research there was a decision made by me to give up this forum. but i talked to waleed and he gave me some answers. your understanding of the quran seems to be getting better and better everyday handshake
well said bro, i felt the exact same guilt, it's gone now though(despite being rejected and dumped by society)
peace, rifat
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Salaam Rifat,
Thanks for your words bro.
It's glad to hear that your "guilt" is gone now ;D
Good job.
And I agree with Waleed. Don't give up on this forum please. The more heated things become in this forum, the more you are needed to smooth things over ;D=adley=