FEARING "ALLAH"

Navid

Peace Danish

My personal belief lies in the illimitable existence of a superior spirit or a ?living thing? as a collective magnitude of a force or energy of some kind as a whole, and that?s as far as I can apprehend without labeling attributes. As soon as one labels a GOD, it becomes limited. The most merciful, most gracious, all powerful, omnipresent and omniscient are just a few examples of labeling attributes entrusted by man to thrust upon a physical man-made idol in its limited capacity, which becomes a fear in itself.

All those "labels," Most Merciful, Most Gracious, All Powerful, Omnipresent and Omniscient imply infinity, do they not? How does this limit God and how does this "thrust upon a physical man-made idol"?

Peace

unknownuser

Peace Danish

My personal belief lies in the illimitable existence of a superior spirit or a ?living thing? as a collective magnitude of a force or energy of some kind as a whole, and that?s as far as I can apprehend without labeling attributes. As soon as one labels a GOD, it becomes limited. The most merciful, most gracious, all powerful, omnipresent and omniscient are just a few examples of labeling attributes entrusted by man to thrust upon a physical man-made idol in its limited capacity, which becomes a fear in itself.

All those "labels," Most Merciful, Most Gracious, All Powerful, Omnipresent and Omniscient imply infinity, do they not? How does this limit God and how does this "thrust upon a physical man-made idol"?

Peace

Hello OpenMind,

"Labels" do not imply infinity but a limitation. Your concerns are within the context and framework of my post above. Please read carefully along with the link I provided. Take your time and if you still have problems understanding the nature of a deity being 'most merciful', 'most gracious', 'all powerful', 'omnipresent' and 'omniscient', then we can discuss further point by point.

I debate on other forums and respond to several emails as well, besides my own family, work and leisure time, so please pardon my quickness in anticipation.

phoenix1

peace Danish,

the problem with your, and other faithfreedomers' approach is that you look at the "evil" verses in the Quran and judge it using those verses, and the "good" verses become "meaningless." Why not take the whole thing together?

anyway, about the labels, I understand what you mean. These labels certainly are man-made. Created by man to explain God. Can God be explained through words? I don't think so.
We can't just glance at those words and dismiss them as mere "labels" but try to understand what is meant by them.

There is no true organized religion. There is a system that all things follow, but us.

And I do not understand that noumenal stuff. Care to explain?

nadeem

Hi there,

Brother Danish,

I understand your concern, and understand your logic regarding "fear of allah".

I haven't looked into this thoroughly yet, however these are my initial thoughts.

For me "fear" is simply the acknowledgment of uncertainty. For some people, such acknowledgement is hard and it makes them act irrationally. However, for those who are patient, understanding and for those who try to consider the facts, their fears only humbles them, keeps them "down to earth" - they are not disabled or paralyzed by it.

Consider a situation in which a bomb is found. Two individuals are present. They cannot escape. One being an average joe, whereas the other is bomb-squad personell. The average joe, of course, freaks out when he discovers the bomb. He is totally out of control, and becomes just another "ticking bomb". The bomb squad mister however, is calm, he gathers himself, and tries to disarm the bomb. He knows it might explode, so he is cautious, thinking it over hundreds times. When he opens the cover, he finds that the structure of this bomb is nothing like he has ever seen, he realises that he might fail, yet he is calm and tries to figure it out.

Now, under this whole ordeal, both the average Joe and Mr. Bomb Squad are scared and afraid. They fear the bomb might go off. They are both frightened.

In our case, the "explosive" part of the bomb represents the average joes interpretion of god. He sees god as psycho trying to fry him. Therefore, our average joe blocks out reason and rushes to do whatever he comes to think "his god commands of him".

Our Mr.Boombastic however, realizes both the explosive part and the non-explosive part of the bomb, and he realises that he is capable of at least trying to disarm it. He knows that submitting to his fears will do him no good, but if he tries to ignore his fears, he might become too sure in himself and to something in haste. His fears are making him see this situation clearer, they are making him consider over and over again. And the fear has such an effect on him as opposed to our Joe, because he is patient and trusts himself.

Patience is one of the main qualities of a believer/submitter. Impulsivity is one of the main qualities of the rejecter.

In our example, the average joe is the rejecter. He has no knowledge of god, and is only familiar with the bad sides such as hell.

Mr. Bomb squad is the believer. He knows the basics ways of how god works, but he admits that he doesn't know everything. This is what keeps him down to earth. He knows that he cannot become to sure in himself and start believing that whatever he does it the right thing to do. Therefore, admitting his lacks, he finds his powers which are his thinking, wisdom and whatever knowledge - he uses them. He does not submit to fears that his powers might fail, but admits his fears to motivate him in a struggle to perfect his powers.

The bomb in this case represents gods negative and positive reactions all depending in our actions.

Try reading 728-29. It's about those who became too sure in themselves and did evil believing that god commanded. Now these are the people who have submitted to their fear of god, rather submitting to god alone.

I hope i wasn't unclear. Again, these are my initial thought, I'm always open for improving them.

Nadeem

mquran

Salaamun alaikum,

Fearing an "Allah" is historically correct but realistically, scientifically and logically incorrect

Please note the italicised words above to compare with the explanations given by Danish below.

The word ?fear? means to be afraid or frightened of, a feeling of agitation and uneasiness caused by the presence or imminence of danger. Thus, fear is a feeling inherited from any known physical entity or event, examples of which are infinitely plentiful and not exclusive to a deity.

Is this explanation 'realistic, logical or scientific' ? No, it's simply a semantic definition. An opinion about what fear should be about. There's nothing realistic, logical or scientific about it. One wonders if the author knows the meaning of the three terms at all.

In essence then, ?Allah? of our cosmological realm which encompasses everything within and everything beyond (unknown), cannot be a ?danger? to cause fear on His own creation and claim to become ?most merciful? and ?most gracious?. That is outrageously insane

Yes, if one reads the very first ayat of Al-quraan in a poor translation, stops there and proclaims one has read AQ, sure it is. Sadly, in a research, one actually needs to read the whole book, analyse its semantic roots and then make a decision. A shallow analysis like this is unacceptable.

Allah of the Quran must only be compared to other man-made gods in order to become ?all powerful?, ?most merciful? and ?most gracious?. Obviously there were all sorts of man-made gods/deities whom the un-tamed worshipped and still witnessed today in cults of various forms, each claiming their ?all powerful?, ?most merciful? and ?most gracious? one. The Allah of the Quran is just one such Supreme man-made idol whom Muhammad took advantage of, destroying and claiming victory over other idols that were worshipped in its vicinity to become all powerful, most merciful, most gracious, omnipresent, omniscient, etc. to bring about an organized religion called Islam. The fear factor, therefore, is associated directly to this man-made physical deity and carried its burden onto humans to enforce a man-made belief system.

This is utter nonsense. Please provide evidence that Allah 'must only be compared to other man-made gods in order to become ?all powerful?, ?most merciful? and ?most gracious since the definition of 'fear' is EXCLUSIVELY yours and has NO REALISTIC, LOGICAL OR SCIENTIFIC correctness at all.

The Quran arbitrates that ?Allah? is as close to our jugular veins and proclaims to call upon Him, yet at the same time this ?Allah? created angels as body guards to overcome distress and demons to overcome comfort. If one fears anything or something, then by default one is restricted and confined to a ?danger zone? limiting man?s capability to use his/her senses to advance and reason. In other words, if Allah of the Quran commands us to do something, then we must obey without any disregard because if we don?t, we?ll be condemned and thrown in hell. And that is exactly what happened. Muhammad condemned people for their disbelief in his system in association with the One Supreme Allah and punished them by throwing them into hell fire along with throwing stones while slaughtering others. Quran also proclaims that ?to each his own? and ?there?s no compulsion? which becomes meaningless in the context of this fear-factor which the Quran brings about. This is due to the fact that some were more powerful than Muhammad and many fled away from him, thereby proclaiming 'to each his own' and 'there's no compulsion'. Hence, it is not an Allah, or a Supreme Being, but Muhammad who called upon his people to disassociate with their idols and disregard their belief systems and to believe only in his system which is superior to theirs, promising them victory over all others by the might of his and his follower?s swords and wealth. We know from historical facts that Muhammad fought many wars and was very rich due to his marriage with Khadija and gained sufficient support, more so, after her death when her entire enterprise became the sole property of Muhammad.

The logical flow in the above paragraph is non-existent.

Lets sum it up for everyone

a. Fear limits our reasoning capacities.

b. So when Allah commands, we must obey without reasoning (his 'without disregard' , apparently) because if we don't, we'll be thrown in hell.

This is LOGICAL ?

Al-Quraan seperates the period when one is an-naas/humankind and when one has already believed/alladhina aaamanoo. This is not a gameshow, Danish where God sends u a Quran and says , you have 30 seconds until the fire descends on you! You have time to contemplate the ayaat, accept it or reject it. This is called 'ajl'.

My dear believers in this forum, I humbly advise you. QUESTION ALL NOTIONS. Ask him to prove 'realistic, logic and scientific'. So far, they are nothing but empty words. Long paragraphs do not necessarily make arguments. Danish has excuses not to answer me, but you guys can still keep asking. Thanks.

mquran

Danish"Labels" do not imply infinity but a limitation.

What is one's label was 'the most best in absolutely everything' ? Is that a limitation or a DElimitation?

Edit I must mention that all human affairs are self-administered and dictated by the very essense and reality of circumstance in time immemorial. No one knows how man began and no one knows where we will end up. All we have today is to exercise reason by our senses to live within the means of human affairs, in good or bad. Everything is subjective and advances with time.

Wonderful stuff. Can we actually do that instead of reading 'bismillahirahmaaniraheem' and then making a 'realistic,logical, and scientific' judgement which either defies or ignores the aforementioned 3?

unknownuser