FEARING "ALLAH"
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Hi there,
Brother Danish,
I understand your concern, and understand your logic regarding "fear of allah".
I haven't looked into this thoroughly yet, however these are my initial thoughts.
For me "fear" is simply the acknowledgment of uncertainty. For some people, such acknowledgement is hard and it makes them act irrationally. However, for those who are patient, understanding and for those who try to consider the facts, their fears only humbles them, keeps them "down to earth" - they are not disabled or paralyzed by it.
Consider a situation in which a bomb is found. Two individuals are present. They cannot escape. One being an average joe, whereas the other is bomb-squad personell. The average joe, of course, freaks out when he discovers the bomb. He is totally out of control, and becomes just another "ticking bomb". The bomb squad mister however, is calm, he gathers himself, and tries to disarm the bomb. He knows it might explode, so he is cautious, thinking it over hundreds times. When he opens the cover, he finds that the structure of this bomb is nothing like he has ever seen, he realises that he might fail, yet he is calm and tries to figure it out.
Now, under this whole ordeal, both the average Joe and Mr. Bomb Squad are scared and afraid. They fear the bomb might go off. They are both frightened.
In our case, the "explosive" part of the bomb represents the average joes interpretion of god. He sees god as psycho trying to fry him. Therefore, our average joe blocks out reason and rushes to do whatever he comes to think "his god commands of him".
Our Mr.Boombastic however, realizes both the explosive part and the non-explosive part of the bomb, and he realises that he is capable of at least trying to disarm it. He knows that submitting to his fears will do him no good, but if he tries to ignore his fears, he might become too sure in himself and to something in haste. His fears are making him see this situation clearer, they are making him consider over and over again. And the fear has such an effect on him as opposed to our Joe, because he is patient and trusts himself.
Patience is one of the main qualities of a believer/submitter. Impulsivity is one of the main qualities of the rejecter.
In our example, the average joe is the rejecter. He has no knowledge of god, and is only familiar with the bad sides such as hell.
Mr. Bomb squad is the believer. He knows the basics ways of how god works, but he admits that he doesn't know everything. This is what keeps him down to earth. He knows that he cannot become to sure in himself and start believing that whatever he does it the right thing to do. Therefore, admitting his lacks, he finds his powers which are his thinking, wisdom and whatever knowledge - he uses them. He does not submit to fears that his powers might fail, but admits his fears to motivate him in a struggle to perfect his powers.
The bomb in this case represents gods negative and positive reactions all depending in our actions.
Try reading 728-29. It's about those who became too sure in themselves and did evil believing that god commanded. Now these are the people who have submitted to their fear of god, rather submitting to god alone.
I hope i wasn't unclear. Again, these are my initial thought, I'm always open for improving them.
Nadeem
Nadeem, peace bro. In the 'ordeal' above, several assumptions come into account. I am not going into lengthy details about bombs, but if I understood you correctly as per the underlined above, is the 'bomb' given as an analogy of a 'god'?
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Hi brother,
Yes, that was a conscious decision to see your reaction. I wanted to know what was most important to you,; the bad analogy of god, or the analogy of a godfearing person being patient and humble.
Why do you think you chose to focus on the former?
Brother, ask yourself "In which state of mind am i? Am I simply out to defame and debunk?". No need to answer me if you don't want to cause it's not my buziness.
But again, as I said, I haven't researched this fully, so maybe I'm wrong. At this point, I agree with you that fear has the power to irrationalize a man, but I disagree that it is impossible to let fear have an postive effect on you.
Nadeem
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Hello Nadeem,
Yes, that was a conscious decision to see your reaction. I wanted to know what was most important to you,; the bad analogy of god, or the analogy of a godfearing person being patient and humble.
You see, a bomb is a fearful and merciless device regardless of one diffusing it or not. The analogy of a bomb to that of 'god' becomes abnormal and dangerous. Now then, if Mr. Bomb Squad manages to diffuse this bomb (god) before exploding, then the question of FEAR is permanently removed, not only for himself but for the average joe as well. Get the drift.
Why do you think you chose to focus on the former?
Because the focus is on how this Book of God came about and with that you need to research and understand the historicity of Allah, Muhammad, Kaba, Islam and finally the compilation of Quran rather than blindly proclaiming a man-made written book to automatically become Allah's words. The Quran is not only Muhammad's words, but mixture of folklore, poetry, prior history and so forth, all collected by men and put together to become the best hadith, alongwith inconsistencies, contradictions, etc.
Ofcourse, by all means, there are lessons to learn from this book and no doubt there many good verses, but then again, aren't there any other similar books for that matter well deserved and justified.
I kept my eyes open and tried to see
The point of what went on in front of me
I kept what moved me, forgot about the rest
And took my young imagination to the acid testAnd it was easy then to say what love could do
It's so easy when your world is newIt's been so hard sometimes to find my way
I let my pleasure lead my little world astray
And if I'm truthful I'll say that I was blind
To everything about this life but what I had in mindAnd it was easy then to say where love could go
It's so easy when there's so much you don't knowAbout my imagination, it got me through somehow
Without my imagination, I wouldn't be here nowAnd it was easy then when love was guaranteed
It's so easy when love is all you needAbout my imagination
I'm making this investigation
Into my imagination
According to my computations
We're overdue for a transformation
Or is it my imagination?I keep my eyes open and try to see
This life in terms of possibility
With so much changing, and changing for the worse
You got to keep your head up, Baby
From the cradle to the hearseAnd it was easy then to say where love could go
It's so easy when love is all you knowAbout my imagination
I'm getting ready for the celebration
I'm bringing my imagination
Taking charge of my elevation
No fear, no trepidation
Register my affirmation
No doubt, no hesitation
People get ready for the embarkationAbout my imagination
Calling out across the nation
It's time for some kind of re-dedication
Not talking 'bout just my generation
I'm sending out this invocation
I keep getting these excitations
More light, more love
More truth, and more innovationby Jackson Browne.
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Perhaps it would be beneficial to re-evaluate the definition of the phrase Fear God and the context in which this term is used in the quran. I believe you're taking it as if you must fear the boogey monster and it simply isn't the case. Try to read the quran with the mindset of a critical researcher if you don't wish to read it as a believer. Use it's own definition of terms and not Hollywood's.
Peace
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Perhaps it would be beneficial to re-evaluate the definition of the phrase Fear God and the context in which this term is used in the quran. I believe you're taking it as if you must fear the boogey monster and it simply isn't the case. Try to read the quran with the mindset of a critical researcher if you don't wish to read it as a believer. Use it's own definition of terms and not Hollywood's.
Listen, don't come barging in blowing your tantrums. Discuss and explain my concerns yourself, like Nadeem did very diligently discussing in an ethical manner directing the subject matter. If you're not capable, then stay out.
All one needs to do is to explain with reason that 'fearing Allah' or any other god for that matter is certainly justified. There's no need to get off-track. I've done my part as mentioned earlier and I personally don't believe that anyone must live in fear.
Want to live your life,
As per Quranic rife;
Make sure you travel in time,
Only then you?d be in chime;
Obey Muhammad?s commands,
For they are Allah?s demands.Give yourself in fears,
For the sake of no more tears;
Do not hesitate or resist,
Nor disobey or desist;
You?ll be massacred, right on spot,
Or thrown in hell, molten hot.by Danish Khan.
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Peace
The word ?fear? means to be afraid or frightened of, a feeling of agitation and uneasiness caused by the presence or imminence of danger. Thus, fear is a feeling inherited from any known physical entity or event, examples of which are infinitely plentiful and not exclusive to a deity.
'fear' doens't mean just 'afraid' or 'frightened'. In God, religions context means
reverence, awe, veneration, a profound emotion inspired by a deity, http//www.wordreference.com/definition/fear
or
to have a reverential awe http//www.m-w.com/dictionary/fearThis is the meaning among Christians and also the meaning me and people around me always heard and understood. Not sure about muslims but I suppose it must be the same.
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Peace All
Thank you, Sis Elena for your enlightening definition. This is exactly what I wished Danish to discover, but he was too busy trying to attack
Danish, you said
Listen, don't come barging in blowing your tantrums.
I haven't had a tantrum since I was 2 so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I didn't know posting on a public forum constituted as "barging in" either. Maybe it's time you get a break from the computer a bit.
Discuss and explain my concerns yourself, like Nadeem did very diligently discussing in an ethical manner directing the subject matter.
Bro Nadeem did an excellent job in his analogy and showed your true intentions quite brilliantly actually. I read your "subject matter" and realized your definition of fear is faulty in the context of the reading of the quran. You must translate by its own terms. You cannot arbitrarily choose a definition for concepts based on your understanding of Hollywood screenplays or fiction novels' definition of fearing the unknown. What you could have done, instead of attack me is actually bring forth some verses in their context to prove that your idea of fear in the quran is accurate - but that would be an impossible task so it was easier to talk about barging in and staying out as if it's your playground )
If you're not capable, then stay out.
Danish, if you're not capable of holding a mature debate, then by all means, you stay out.
Peace All
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Peace
The word ?fear? means to be afraid or frightened of, a feeling of agitation and uneasiness caused by the presence or imminence of danger. Thus, fear is a feeling inherited from any known physical entity or event, examples of which are infinitely plentiful and not exclusive to a deity.
'fear' doens't mean just 'afraid' or 'frightened'. In God, religions context means
reverence, awe, veneration, a profound emotion inspired by a deity, http//www.wordreference.com/definition/fear
or
to have a reverential awe http//www.m-w.com/dictionary/fearHello Elena,
Appreciate your response and an excellent point.
Reverence, veneration and awe towards a deity have a mixed or rather a dual personality/feeling. Is this feeling coming out of fear and dismay OR out of respect and love? Do you think that "GOD" is a known or and unknown deity? This question directly relates to "fearing Allah".
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Bro Nadeem did an excellent job in his analogy and showed your true intentions quite brilliantly actually.
Yes, what a brilliant analogy!!! Analyze your "Allah" to the semblance of a "bomb" and try diffusing it. elektro If you can't, seek help from Bush.
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I guess the point of his analogy was lost on you . It's understandable ...
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I guess the point of his analogy was lost on you . It's understandable ...
I guess the 'bomb' mistakenly got implanted into you and now Nadeem must come forward to diffuse it before it explodes.
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lol Danish, Danish, Danish .. when will you learn
ok enough antics back to the topic dear Danish
It's interesting that you agree with sis Elena's definition of "fear God" but yet you have this thread... please explain
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It's interesting that you agree with sis Elena's definition of "fear God" but yet you have this thread... please explain
I never did. What are you reading into, LOL? As a matter of fact, I'm still awaiting their responses to my last posts addressed to both of them and shall then rebut. If you can explain yourself better to essentially accomodate "fearing Allah", then please join in.
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Peace soul2squeeze, Danish, all
soul2squeeze, I understood Danish didn't agree, he is asking if that reverence or admiration comes from fear-fear or from love and respect.
Danish, the fear of God I learnt came out of awareness of God + respect. Love was not involved in this part of the doctrine.
The fear-frigthtened is another component of the religion yes, it was present during the time of the adoctrination, but for some reason it was not as hard as that if we couldn't overcome it. We could.
The two kinds of 'fears' were clearly separated. In fact they should have different words, so different they are.
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soul2squeeze, I understood Danish didn't agree, he is asking if that reverence or admiration comes from fear-fear or from love and respect.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Danish, the fear of God I learnt came out of awareness of God + respect. Love was not involved in this part of the doctrine.
The fear-frigthtened is another component of the religion yes, it was present during the time of the adoctrination, but for some reason it was not as hard as that if we couldn't overcome it. We could.
The two kinds of 'fears' were clearly separated. In fact they should have different words, so different they are.
Reverence, awe and veneration does NOT mean two kinds of fears but carry dual components which conveys opposite meanings. I agree that one of its meanings convey fear and dismay, hence needs an explanation relevant to "Allah" in order to accomodate and exercise its legitimacy. In other words, why must one FEAR Allah and if reverence has two meanings, why choose one over the other?
Do you think that "GOD" is a known or and unknown deity? This question directly relates to "fearing Allah".
This crucial question got left out.
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Easy danish. Nice topic... bravo sun
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Easy danish. Nice topic... bravo sun
) peace
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Hi brother Danish,
I guess the 'bomb' mistakenly got implanted into you and now Nadeem must come forward to diffuse it before it explodes.
Are you making fun of me, brother? )
It's okay for me brother, but you should ask yourself "Why did I make that comment? Did it help me or anyone get closer to the truth?"The subject is "fear of allah". Now, believe or not, "fear of allah" has actually very little or absolutely nothing to do with whatever 'allah' might be in absolute terms.
It has more to do with the person in which this fear manifests itself and how that person responds to it. Therefore, in my analogy, I did not pay to much attention on properly describing 'allah', rather I tried my best to describe the negative and positive effects of such fear. I tried to explain how a patient person is humbled by his fears, and how a impulsive person is panicked by his. That was my focus. I apologize if that was wholly irrelevant for you.
Maybe you are wondering why I did not consider the definition 'allah' a deciding factor. That is because the way a believer handles fear is not limited to 'allah' alone, but every kind of fear.
I must admit however, 'fear' is best explained psychologically (I believe), and that is one explanation I have yet to acquaint myself with. So I'm offering my opinions as sort of "beta versions", hehe -)
For those brothers and sisters who understood my point and found it helpful; I'm glad to hear that I could help -)
Nadeem
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Hi brother Danish,
I guess the 'bomb' mistakenly got implanted into you and now Nadeem must come forward to diffuse it before it explodes.
Are you making fun of me, brother? )
It's okay for me brother, but you should ask yourself "Why did I make that comment? Did it help me or anyone get closer to the truth?"No, not at all, brother Nadeem. I respect your views and style of discussion. The statement made above was an analogy upon S2S which he didn't understand. He spoke on behalf of you a few times making fun of me. I wanted S2S to speak for himself and hence having you to come forward before S2S starts venting out on me.
I shall respond to other half of your post soon.