Fat forbidden for the jews,was it realy?
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Peace
Just another note so that nobody misunderstands me I also believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with searching for all the possible meanings for each and every word in the quran. But it must fit into the quran properly and not awkwardly and we must always be aware of grammar so that we choose the exact definition. MUDARRIS is it to teach, a school, a student, or an instructor? The only way to know is to understand grammar rules.
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S2SAllow me to rephrase my statement. It is my opinion that Bro Simple is making up new meanings for this aya that is not based on metaphor. According to Bro Simple himself, he uses the dictionary to find another meaning to the same words. Therefore, he's not using the same definitions, only using them metaphorically instead of literally - he is using a whole new set of definitions. In other words, he's not saying cow symbolizes something else... he's saying cow isn't even the right definition.
Right, I take your point here and sadly I lack the linguistic resource to answer you.
Finding metaphors and mithaal like you stated, is 100% fine and I have no problem with it. If he told me he believes the cow symbolizes something else, all of my posts would be totally different. He's telling me the word Al-Baqar is a verb that means to cut.
Right, clearly it's not a verb but a noun. You're right once again.
I may be completely wrong in my original hypothesis that this aya is talking about Jews and their dietary laws. But the only way to discuss it is thru looking at the words and the grammatical structures of them. This is why I asked for his definitions of those two crucial words. And when we established that these 2 words are not verbs but are nouns, then according to him the quran was modified. That basically ends the debate with me, because we both must take the quran to be without error as a given for us to discuss anything in it. Or else anything I say will just be thrown out as a modification. It's completely fine if this is his belief. I would have liked to see a more fruitful discussion breaking down all the words in the aya instead of stopping at just those two... but it's better to leave it alone if it has the potential to create bad feelings between folks.
AQ lays out the groundwork, if you like, as a prelude to the exercise of understanding. 'Alladhina haadu' isn't used in AQ anywhere as a religious sect during the time of Musa. Further, to typologise such people according to their heritage is contrary to teachings of AQ.
I consider AQ error-free and if one's understanding is incorrect, contradictions will appear. Such has been the case with much of my understanding over the years in salaat, zakaat, hajj etc.
I will try to work on Simple's explanation once I obtain more linguistic resources.
shukran wa salam.
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Peace Bro
I will try to work on Simple's explanation once I obtain more linguistic resources.
I would love to see your understanding and for all of us to work thru the aya step by step so that we can all raise our understanding to a new level.
'Alladhina haadu' isn't used in AQ anywhere as a religious sect during the time of Musa. Further, to typologise such people according to their heritage is contrary to teachings of AQ.
Already, I see I made a huge assumption based on traditional interpretations of the quran. This is why it's great to go thru it slowly. Maybe I made a million wrong assumptions and Bro Simple's translation is more accurate. Maybe we're all wrong and it's something else. The only way to know is to humor me and go thru it one by one D
Peace
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Salaams Br ahmed,
560
Say Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worst place and are more astray from the right path.What is this , a metaphor - if so show me where it says its a metaphor - and don't say of things what Allah doesn't say of them.
;D
Salaams.
Peace bro
Who said that it is a metaphor, you?
Well the verse for me is never a metaphor, I believe Allah cursed some of the jews to monkeys and pigs, I believe Allah in anything He says, He told me 35 times in the Quran that He is able to do anything
Was that the answer you were expecting?
Salam
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ABbro the Quran is not about finding new conspets for the verses and I can see that is what you only do really
Salaamun alaikum,
Salam bro
You're right. It's not about finding new concepts for the verses. It's about finding out original concepts of AQ and this is what Simple is doing.
And how do you know that you will find the original context?
Well the original context is in the very same book that is still preserved in its original language
I may not agree with all of his conclusions, but he's asking some very deconstructive questions.
well, I see simple and his likes falling under the following verse
O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.
(41)
-> See ? they alter the words from their places, saying If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts;?
Salam
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Sorry Br,
with repsects
can't convince me as i believe the language has modified , developed after the quran and if anyone says men used to change into monkeys well i wouldn't couldn't accept it thanks though,men to monkeys ...............
Salaams.
Well, you don't believe Allah then when He said the following
- 35 times that He is able to do anything
- that He made some Jews to look like monkeys and pigs
?
well here is somthing for ya, Allah is telling us that He can make us look in any form He desires
6- O man! What has seduced thee from thy Lord Most Beneficent?-
7- Him Who created thee. Fashioned thee in due proportion, and gave thee a just bias;
8- In whatever Form He wills, does He put thee together.(6)
(7)
(Now let me ask you
What has seduced you from the Lord Most Beneficent not to believe Him when He says In whatever Form He wills, does He put thee together.?
Salam
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Sorry Br,
with repsects
can't convince me as i believe the language has modified , developed after the quran and if anyone says men used to change into monkeys well i wouldn't couldn't accept it thanks though,men to monkeys ...............
Salaams.
Well, you donlt believe Allah then when He said the following
- 35 times that He is able to do anything
- the He made some Jews to look like monkeys and pigs
?
well here is somthing for ya, Allah is telling us that He can put us look in any form He desires
6- O man! What has seduced thee from thy Lord Most Beneficent?-
7- Him Who created thee. Fashioned thee in due proportion, and gave thee a just bias;
8- In whatever Form He wills, does He put thee together.(6)
(7)
(Now let me ask you
What has seduced you from the Lord Most Beneficent not to believe Him when He says In whatever Form He wills, does He put thee together.?
Salam
Peace ahmed ,
I came across such a blatant degrading heathenish answer from an imam from my younger days.
What he said when I asked him a question was, "don't you know asking to many question can take you out of Islam"
What a nut he was.
Mind you I stopped asking questions, but only realized some time after that such people are blatantly unfortunate and consider their belief/ the way they understand their idol.
Salaams.
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Peace ahmed ,
I came across such a blatant degrading heathenish answer from an imam from my younger days.
What he said when I asked him a question was, "don't you know asking to many question can take you out of Islam"
What a nut he was.
Mind you I stopped asking questions, but only realized some time after that such people are blatantly unfortunate and consider their belief/ the way they understand their idol.
Salaams.
Peace bro
The imam you asked is actually 100% right, I believe 5101-102 supports his view and I do support his views
however bro you are not asking questions, you are manipulating the Quran verses according to lanes, that's all bro
cheers
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To me likewise you are far from your maker also Br. but don't realise it.
Which is a sad sad thing.
And I thank the allmighty for showing me the idolatory ways of such people as the imam and thank him i didn't follow the imam.
Bye.
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Great bro
Now we should seek Allah to be the witness between us
Salam
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Great bro
Now we should seek Allah to be the witness between us
Salam
you don't need seeking or anything as such,
He is a witness and allways so for all timesGod Bless.
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I agree
Then Allah is the witness between us
Salam
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Then
Why agree ?
Salaams.
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Then
Why agree ?
Salaams.
did you get what i mean or what bro?
far out mate
I agreed with your view of Allah being a wtiness all the time and we don't need to seek His witness, i. bloody e. I agreed that your statement is more accurate than mine
when I used "then" I meant this is how I should have said it after your better view of it
man please don't make it hard on me because I can make really hard on you and both of us will end up wasting our time
Salam
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try it. Br.
Salaams.
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Then
Why agree ?
Salaams.
did you get what i mean or what bro?
far out mate
I agreed with your view of Allah being a wtiness all the time and we don't need to seek His witness, i. bloody e. I agreed that your statement is more accurate than mine
when I used "then" I meant this is how I should have said it after your better view of it
man please don't make it hard on me because I can make really hard on you and both of us will end up wasting our time
Salam
Who is confused -read your post man!
Salaams.
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Peace Bro Simple
I came across such a blatant degrading heathenish answer from an imam from my younger days.
What he said when I asked him a question was, "don't you know asking to many question can take you out of Islam"
What a nut he was.
Mind you I stopped asking questions, but only realized some time after that such people are blatantly unfortunate and consider their belief/ the way they understand their idol.
Aaah I had the same experience! I used to go to this "Sunday School" it was such crap. I was something like 11 or 12 yrs old at the time. I felt really confused because I was raised at home as a God-Aloner using RK's old-version "The Golden Message" if anyone has heard of it. Anyway that "school" was absurdly sunni. I always asked why they tell us to do certain things that seemed so un-quranic to me. Then I was labelled the devil incarnate by the "teacher" which is very funny if you get to know my personality lol
I remember she was explaining that we can't have this dessert many Egyptians make during Ramadan. It's dried fruits soaked in juice and left overnight or as long as possible. So this teacher tells us it's haram because it turns into wine
rotfl
And when I told her wine takes longer than overnight to make, she told me but it begins the fermentation process. So I asked her well is it alcohol? She said no but we need to stay away from these things. So I said why not stay away from grape juice. And she said this is haram too. rotfl so I asked why is grape juice haram
Then she turned to the class and said "take a good look at what just happened between me and her. This is how the devil behaves he keeps asking why why why" of course she never answered
Anyway tensions rose to a high level when they put aside the quran for "story-time" and made us memorize hadith for homework .Sorry for the drawn-out story I just felt your pain for a minute there ;D
I disagree with you, Bro AB with all due respect. There is nothing wrong in asking questions. I would say the only stipulation would be that your intent is to gain more knowledge, even if the answer turns out to be the opposite of what you wanted/initially believed.
Peace All
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Nice going souls,
I just felt your pain for a minute there
I think it wasn't pain - but just a test to see when ahmed will become a tornado - he nearly did.
Salaams.
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Sister soul2squeeze
don't take my statement as general one covering every question, of course not, this is ridiculous to take it as such, i don't have to bloody explain eveything in details that I say, I thought most of us have enough IQ to get it with ease
I meant questions that has no answer, like
why Allah does not forgive shirk?
why Allah need Angels?
why Allah need to torture us in Jahannam?
how Allah created Jesus with out a mother?
how Allah created Adam without both?
etc.
etc
now to ask your grape fruit question, sure that is an ok question
also mister simple is making it really hard by manipulating the Quran words, he is not even clever in doing as such and coming witn such laughable argument regarding the word Ghanam
so what is his question exactly sister?
salam
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Peace Ahmed
don't take my statement as general one covering every question, of course not, this is ridiculous to take it as such, i don't have to bloody explain eveything in details that I say, I thought most of us have enough IQ to get it with ease
I'm glad to see that's not what you meant. I don't know about you but when someone says a fanatical imam was right when he says asking too many questions leads to leaving Islam, then my comment really wasn't so ridiculous after all.
Perhaps you should explain your thoughts more clearly the first time, so that those of us with a lesser IQ could understand you ...
An extra advice, try phrasing your responses without getting personal because you really don't know me to make such passing comments without a second thought.