praying loudly

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

but i still don't know if praying in silence is wrong?

No, its not wrong. The verse yuo are referring to is best translated as "do not salaat out in the open and do not hide it, but find a way in between"

Has nothing to do with the loudness of your voice.

adley

Salaam Nerspi,

Well, let us start from scratch again.
Why do you think that salat=prayer? What is du'a according to your understanding? And is salat=du'a?
Perhaps we can start from here before we are talking about the loudness of your voice in your "prayer".

Even though I agree with Kyle, but personally if this is the "me" from last year, I don't think I can understand what he is writing above. Take your time bro.

=adley=

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Adley,

Thanks for the reminder to be patient

adley

Salaam Kyle,

You're welcome bro.

Well as people say, been there done that ;D
I know it takes time to make our understanding grow.
Sometimes I couldn't even believe how could I understand a certain concept as I have previously understood it.

And you're right. Patience is the key.

=adley=

nerspi

selam

but what if i don't find a way in between?
i say the words in my head, that's okay too, right?

adley

Salaam Nerspi,

If you pray by saying the words in your head, then that's fine. I believe it's your intention that is count, not technicalities.

But let me repeat my previous questions.
Why do you think that salat=prayer? What is du'a according to your understanding? And is salat=du'a?

I assure you, by understanding them both, you can make a better analysis and judgment on this matter. And of course, your final understanding might be very different than mine or Kyle or anyone else. ;D

=adley=

nerspi

selam

i don't know arabic, so i don't know what du'a means
and i think salat means prayer, if i'm wrong please tell me what it actually means.

i olny have a bosnian qur'an and i read in there somewhere that we have to sound out the words, we have to say them out loud, but not too loud like yelling but not too low like whispering, we're supposed to find a middle. now i've been praying silently, i say the words in my head, i don't say them out loud,
but i'm afraid that that means i'm disobeying Allah, and i don't wanna disobey Him.
i don't do it out of disobedience, i just got used to praying in silence, i like it.

and i wanna know if not praying aloud is such a sin that leads to hell.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Why would praying out loud be a "sin"? You have to ask yourself that question. We are not to be blind believers who justtake any statement and follow it without understanding WHY we are following it. Everything in the God's system is based on REASON, and I cant see any reason that saying prayers(dua) out loud would be a "sinful" act.

Salaat is not prayer, dua is prayer. You must go through the occurences and check out some old threads on this forum where we debate it in detail. While several people have ideas of what salaat actually is, I can only give you my understanding which I intend to display in detial very soon. It is the understanding the salaat is the method of PROGRAMMING your subconscious/spirit(nafs).

nerspi

selam

okay maybe praying silently is not a sin but what i read was that we should sound out the words and i was thinking that if i didn't i would be disobeying God. and disobeying is sin.

adley

Salaam Nerspi,

I will concentrate first on du'a to help you out and get you started.
The primary meanings of this word are call upon, cry out, and call out (among other meanings).
For the occurences of this word and how it is used, please read 223, 261, 268, 269, 270, 260, 729, 755, 756, 7134, 7180, 7194, 7195, 1038, 1113, 1440, 16125, 1756, 17110, 17110, 2267, 2514, , 26213, 2864, 2887, 335, 3422, 4014, 4049, 4050, 4060, 4065, 4215, and 4349 for example. There are still a lot other occurences of this word. But once you get to know more about du'a then you will realize that prayer as in "wishing for something" or "the act of calling The God for something" is in fact du'a.

Now, if you have verified this, one of the questions is already answered. What is remaining is the "salat" question. What is it?
Based on my experience, it is a lot better for you to research this word by yourself and for you to make a conclusion before we continue.
Because the concept of salat is deep, at least for me personally. Its meaning is quite vast, where translating it to a certain word usually needs the translator to explain it anyway.

First, if you need to know the difference between salat and du'a (prayer) please read http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_wakas.htm which points out the difference between these two concepts.

Then, please download an article that I wrote regarding the usage of this word The Word Shalat in The Quran (right-click and save). I do not give any conclusions here; my goal was to create a reference material for this particular word. By using this article as a reference, you may reach your own conclusion about salat.

After noticing the difference about salat and du'a, and reaching your own conclusion about what salat is, then we can continue.
For present contemplation, 17110 is talking about salat not du'a/prayer.

17110 Say "Call on (<od'oo>) God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names." And do not be too loud in thy salat (<salaatika>), nor too quite; but seek a path in between.

This is the verse that makes you question. Please note however, in that verse both du'a (in the form of od'oo) and salat (in the form of salaatika) shows up, which of course is striking because it is a proof that du'a is not salat.

One more thing, I'm sorry for not giving you a direct and simple answer regarding salat, because it is my understanding that there is no simple answer to this question about what salat really is. Let's see where our understanding of salat will go from here ;D

=adley=

matinbhagat

Salam,

well although dua is distinct from salat,just like messenger is distinct from prophet,but every prophet is a messenger,and in the same context,it could very well be every salat is a form of dua,at least the way most ppl do the salat,there involves callin upon God,so it cannot be denied that fits the bill of dua.Salam

nerspi

hello

salat,dua,praying,bowing down,prostrating,...
call it what you want, that's not my really question

my question is is praying silently a sin?

because of what it says in the Qur'an
17110 Say "Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names." And do not be too loud in making your oath, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.

now does this mean we have to do it because it also says
2430Tell the believing men to lower their gaze ...
2431 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze...

we have to lower our gaze, now that may have been
a lot easier 14 centuries ago but
today it is really hard, almost impossible.

now, i know it's not impossible for us to pray(prostrate, you know what i mean) out loud, but can we still pray in silence?

andy

Salaam nerspi,

hello

salat,dua,praying,bowing down,prostrating,...
call it what you want, that's not my really question

my question is is praying silently a sin?

because of what it says in the Qur'an
17110 Say "Call on God or call on the Almighty. Whichever it is you call on, for to Him are the best names." And do not be too loud in making your oath, nor too quite; but seek a path in between.

now does this mean we have to do it because it also says
2430Tell the believing men to lower their gaze ...
2431 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze...

we have to lower our gaze, now that may have been
a lot easier 14 centuries ago but
today it is really hard, almost impossible.

now, i know it's not impossible for us to pray(prostrate, you know what i mean) out loud, but can we still pray in silence?

IMHO, it depends on your understanding of what salat in 17110 is. If your understanding leads you to believe that salat in 17110 is ritual salat, then I think you should follow your own conviction. The case will be different if your understanding is the same as that of Idolfree1 which implies that you don't have to recite anything loudly.

Brother Akbarally Meherally is an example of brothers who is convinced that 17110 is divine command to recite loudly when praying ritually. Please see
http//www.mostmerciful.com/realities-of-our-daily-prayers.htm

The good thing is I love your questioning here because it means you take the verses of quran seriously. May Allah increase our knowledge brother.

arnoldyasin

Peace,

Praying outloud has a psychological factor. Here a part of my article on Salat which is also included as an attachment below this post

Benefits and function of the Salat

2945 .. For the Salat prohibits evil and vice, and the remembrance of God is the greatest.

So what is the function of prayer? Is it because God demands worship?

4131 ? Even if you deny, surely all that is in the heavens and the earth belongs to God; and God is Self-sufficient and praise-worthy.

397 ? Whosoever denies, should remember that God is independent of the peoples of the world.

6114 ?God the Creator of the heavens and the earth, who nourishes all and is nourished by none.

148 ?"What if you and all the people of the world deny, God is unconcerned and worthy of praise."

2740 ? "This is by the grace of my Lord that He may test me whether I am grateful or I am thankless. Yet if one is grateful, he is grateful for himself, and if one is thankless, then surely my Lord is unconcerned and magnanimous."

35 15. O men, it is you who stand in need of God. As for God, He is above all need, worthy of praise.

So God is needless, He doesn?t need to be praised. Because being praiseworthy is something different from needing praise. A good footballer can be praised for his skills, but he doesn?t need the praise to have those skills. So why do we pray then? What do we do? Well, we request something, we ask to be guided and not be the ones who are straying. We acknowledge God to be Rahman and our Rabb, that He is in full control of the results of our deeds. One of the meanings of Salat is contact and bond, which is exactly the situation that is created through prayer. So it enhances our peaceful mindstate and our feeling that God is Ever-present. We repeat these things at least 5 times a day out loud, as a verbal statement has more dominance in our mind then a thought. Through this, it becomes part of our subconciousness and becomes a dominant part in it. A compulsive liar can?t distinguish the lies from reality anymore, he believes his own lies. He has told them so many times, the self-produced memories becomes part of the real memories. There are also reports of suspects of a crime, who were interrogated. The accusations were repeated so many times by the officers, the persons started to believe themselves they had committed it even though they had nothing to do with the crime. So powerful is repetition. Now you can see why repetition is part of the prayer. The physical movements are a confirmation of the verbally expressed submission. When you are really happy, you express this physically as well as verbally. When you love somebody, you say you love the person and you enhance the expression with a hug or a kiss. The same accounts for sadness, anger and so on. The physical expression enhances the verbal statement and acknowledgement. So it is clear prayer is for ourselves and has a real important psychological and also in group-prayer, a sociological meaning. By saying everyday Lord don?t let me stray, it becomes more then a request, it becomes part of your subconciousness, it becomes a goal.

nerspi

hi

ok, i understand what you're saying,
but is it ok to pray in silence?

also, i found that somewhere it says
Alrrahmani alrraheemi
and somewhere else it says
Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahim

are these two the same or is one of them wrong?

arnoldyasin

Peace,

17110-111 is clear. Don't pray silent and not to loud. Praying silently is non-Quranic and God gave a clear command for that in 17110-111. Pray in a middle tone out loud. As for the Al-Rahman and Ar-Rahmani, the L is silent. So you say Ar-Rahmani. So the writing style is Al-Rahman, but the recited word sounds as Ar-Rahmani.
Download my article down below my post above see the paperclip attachment..

adley

Salaam Nerspi,

also, i found that somewhere it says
Alrrahmani alrraheemi
and somewhere else it says
Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahim

The article "Al" in the Arabic language when meeting the letter "Ra" with a tanwin (idgam bilagunnah if I'm not mistaken) will make the "L" in the "Al" not sounded that distinct, and pronounced "Ar" instead.

So both of them are correct transliteration, although if you hear quran recitations, it will sound "A(l)r-Rahmaani(al)r-Rahiim(i)" (the letters in the brackets are not spoken).

=adley=

matinbhagat

Salam,

from the perspective arnold presents ,which i agree with,i think the issue is not sin when we pray softly,but the overall effectiveness of the salat is reduced,hence the injunction to pray aloud,but yet not too loud.Salam.My opinion on the issue...

nerspi

peace

ok some of you say it's not wrong to pray in silence and arnold here says it is and i'm confused again. up until now i always thought it's the fact that we pray to Allah alone that matters, i didn't know that saying the words aloud is so important, are we gonna anwser on the Judgement Day about saying the words in prayers out loud or in our heads? God hears us either way so i thought it wasn's something that we will be punished for.

adley

Salaam,

I think the "pray" in Arnold's post meant to be "salat" instead of "du'a". You can do du'a in silence without problems. But if taken literally, you have to use a middle-tone (of course you decide how loud it is) when uttering what you say in your salat.

What I consider "loud" may not what you consider "loud". So it is up to your judgment how loud you should raise your voice.

=adley=