When will this journey into nothingness end?
-
When will this journey into nothingness end?
So we find out that all the while that we thought that we were following Islam we were in fact following the rank opposite of it. And not only that, but all through the ages there has not been a single Moslem, at least not since the Battle of Karbala in which the Meccans obliterated the original community of the Prophet in 684. And even now that some of us have heard the message of the true Quran brought to us by Rashad Khalifa, we have suddenly turned into ?scholar Moslems?, scouring the Quran for true interpretation while learning to eject all the misconceptions drummed into us by our misguided parents. In other words we are not truly Moslem yet, but we are studying hard so that we may eventually become one. And as we study we even notice that we are dividing, even this tiny, tiny group who profess to see the light. And why do we expect different, for every act of studying is an act of dividing, because understanding and interpretation is a relative thing, and nobody presumes that we become infallible just because we see the light. We make sounds as if, just because we have discovered the complete divinity confined within a book, we are surely on our road to salvation, and it only requires that the new understanding settle down after some fumbling investigation. We radiate optimism, bordering on arrogance, in fact. But the reality of the matter is that we are dividing day by day. Even among this miniscule group of people we are developing out atomists, our realists, our idealists, our determinists, our sophists, our empiricists, our existentialists, and so on. This is all division, and mirroring the division that we observe among the ancient Greeks, as well as among the modern rationalists. The Greeks ended in nihilist despair, and in the same mess are the modern rationalists mired. Why do we expect different? The only advantage we hold over them is that we have the undeniable words of God to guide us. But it is the same frail interpretation, the same weak brain. So it might not be an advantage at all, but only a false sense of security.
It is plain as daylight as to what our problem is. We lack the requisite purification before we come to the Quran. Yes, in a sudden blinding flash of light we have seen that the Quran is the comprehensive truth. But this does not necessarily lend to us purification. We suddenly find that God is talking to us in plain idiom. But are we elevated enough to be spoken to in plain idiom by God? Which prophet, sage or philosopher ever told us that God would one day speak to us in plain idiom? No, they have always told us different, that man is not capable of assimilating too much truth while entangled in his material concerns. Recall that the mountain crumbled before the eyes of Moses due to the presence of God therein. Yes, the Quran declares itself as easy to understand. But I don?t see anybody having understood it in 1400 years. We fool ourselves if we believe that we will be able to understand it now. The vast majority of those who have heard the message of Rashad Khalifa are suffering from a surfeit of arrogance, and thus are not capable of true understanding. Yes, the Quran is easy to understand, but the criterion of purification stands fast too. Instead we seem to be way, way too busy with our intellects, and all the time we are sharpening our sophistry with Quranic quotation. We seem to be saying, ?First we will bulldoze our way to the Truth, and then we will be purified by it.? But the criterion of purification comes first, and there can be no evasion here.
Shaad
http//www.nazrulreader.com -
Salam Shaad,
I can't vouch for everyone here, but Islam is a simple religion, Sirat al-Mustaqim is straight forward and most of us here are aware of its tenets, is not this the purification before the greater truth?
You may be very right, that people here have forgotten this, and you highlight some very important issues, however, so long as they continue to uphold these basic laws are they not suffficiently 'pure' to undertake such a task?
Perhaps it's not about the results, perhaps it's more about the intentions, this is a very important part of Islam, so what - they spend the rest of their lives and not have resolved anything, but the basic things they do know, and the important thing is the fact that they are trying to find the truth whether their efforts are futile or not. We are too far away from each other to understand such things, we are a virtual community and not quite a physical one.
I agree with you, perhaps here the concept of the Muslim community may not be as stringent as those of the people of the Sunnah or the supporters of 'Ali - and the people here need to do much more to organise themselves to do the stuff that humanity was place here for.
Undoubtedly your post will spawn a very long discussion...
-
Sirat al-Mustaqim
by Micha F. Lindemans
"The straight path". It is the path of God (Qur'an 4253). The sirat is described as no wider than a rope and 3000 miles (or hours) long, 1000 upwards, 1000 across and 1000 downwards. However, it is also described as a ladder which the souls of the dead have to climb into paradise. Beneath the sirat rages the fires of Hell, which scorches the sinners so that they fall into it. They can only be saved by repeating God's name. God will hear them and send an angel to rescue them.
The souls of the good will find their good deeds converted into a white horse awaiting for them to ascent. Riding it, they will cross the bridge in only three minutes because their good deeds will carry them into paradise. At the end of the bridge, they will find the Hauzu'l-Kausar (the Pond of Abundance).http//www.pantheon.org/articles/s/sirat_al-mustaqim.html
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
"Say 'come let me recite to you what your Lord Has forbade for you
that you should not set-up anything with Him.
And be kind to your parents;
and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them;
and do not come near evil, what is openly of it, or secretly;
and do not kill the soul which GOD Has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend'.
'And do not come near the money of the orphan, except for what is best, until he reached his maturity;
and give honestly full measure and weight equitably. We do not burden a soul except by what it can bear.
And if you speak then be just even if against a relative;
and with pledges made to GOD you shall observe. This He Has enjoined you that you may remember'.
And this is *My path, a Straight One, so you shall follow it, and do not follow the other paths lest they divert you from His path. That is what He has enjoined you to that you may be righteous." (6151-153)
Perhaps this is a perfect example of how some Muslims really have turned away from the Qur'an...
-
Peace Shaad
Yes we are having a clear problem at the moment, this forum is currently in a state of crisis with many opposing views from participants who only enjoy having the last word to protect their fragile ego.
So I really appreciate and welcome your comments which capture the current mood.
However do not forget that it only takes one committed individual to make a real difference.
Take care -
peace,
Noble, can you please be kind enough let me know what this body of "we" is that you are refering to?
I believe the answer to this question is important for my understanding before I can even begin to try and understand what the "problem" & "state of crisis" which you speak of is. In "PBUH" thread, I asked the same question and am patiently awaiting an answer. It is clear to me that the answer of this question can lead to a better understanding of what is happening here and now.
By trying to reason out what you mean by "we" in your post above, it would be difficult for me to think of this forum as "we", if there are many opposing view points as you stated. So therefore "we" in you post may not mean the forum. If this is not so, and you mean the whole body of the forum as "we", then my worst thoughts regarding this board seem to be close to a reality. That being, yet another sect within the Deen is forming. Perhaps there are more possibilities that have not yet come into my mind, and you can be kind enough to let me know.
I pray you understand my earnest inquiry regarding this matter.
peace.
-
Peace M_Mehdi
Allah's guidance is The Guidance. This forum is about that.
Some individuals value being right more that being truly guided. It is an ego problem.
There is not enough momentum for this "God Alone" movement to be a sect.
I look at it as a spin off from Rashad Khalifah and other previous "scholars" work. I personally benefitted a great deal as it opened my eyes re. hadith and sunna.
For that alone, I thank very much the ones who made this happen.
It is up to The God to bring hearts together, we are but vessels for His Mercy.
Patience is much needed, and also prayer and action...
Salam -
peace Shaad,
I dont think I understand your point.
What we (or atleast I) are trying to do is find the truth. And that includes what exactly the quran is and what it's saying. So that we can put our selves on the right path. How is this a journey into nothingness? -
That being, yet another sect within the Deen is forming.
Not necessarily, not if we can help it at least. I can't help but notice there is a great deal of Sunni-bashing here which is understandable for two reasons 1. Many of us were previously 'Sunnis' if you could say that and 2. It fors the largest Hadith sect, however some of my best and most respected friends are still in that position of Ahl-us-Sunna and yes, I believe they do stuff that is not part of Islam however I also know that I am not perfect myself and I hope insha Allah that I will be forgiven just like my 'sunni' brothers.
The instant we start treating sunnis and shias as completely wrong instead of simply misguided and stop the derogative comments (which there surely are, not so much recently but it has been quite regular in the past) we need to help each other as Muslmis 'quranite', 'sunni' and 'shia' for I tell you, there are people in all three groups who understand the importance of referring to oneself just as a 'Muslim', this is not just a Qur'an Alone phenomenon.
Like M_Mehdi said, the people here referred to as 'we' run the risk of creating another deen if 'we' don't change ourselves, it is of the utmost importance however that these discussions about each and every little tiny fact of Islam are consolidated amongst ourselves, the ones given in the clear versus I mean, not the other stuff, we need to consolidate everything in the clear verses and come to a common understanding.
-
Peace Noble,
Thank you for your post.
Some individuals value being right more that being truly guided. It is an ego problem.
It is difficult to tell on a message board without more explanation what it actually means. Perhaps you can explain a bit more on this? At face value the quote above is somewhat of a dichotomy. To be right and to be Guided go hand in hand. That is if we consider your first statement
Allah's guidance is The Guidance.
If an individual is Guided by Allah, then I would imagine Allah would Guide that individual towards being right rather than wrong. I would appreciate if you would please explain more on this idea.
There is not enough momentum for this "God Alone" movement to be a sect.
A sect does not need massive numbers or any great movement to be a sect unfortunately. I wish to save this conversation for a better time and another place insha_Allah.
Personally I was referring more to the new wave atheists who are trying to take over the forum, and who have pushed away many regular participants...
Thank you for this Noble. Is this what you meant by "we" initially? We being Believers to differentiate from non-believers? If so, then my question can be put to rest. Peace be on you.
Salam Al-Quraishi,
The instant we start treating sunnis and shias as completely wrong instead of simply misguided and stop the derogative comments (which there surely are, not so much recently but it has been quite regular in the past) we need to help each other as Muslmis 'quranite', 'sunni' and 'shia' for I tell you, there are people in all three groups who understand the importance of referring to oneself just as a 'Muslim', this is not just a Qur'an Alone phenomenon.
Very nicely put Al-Quraishi. Unity is key, as you said, "We need to help eachother as Muslims."
peace...
ps. please excuse the long post.
-
Peace to all,
I agree with Shaad, we need to start by coming to an agreement on what we have in common and stop trying to pick each other apart. I dont think we should constantly worry that we will become another sect like some say, its not this, are we not supposed to let a community arise from among ourselves in order to do Gods work?
Kurt
-
Peace
Being right or being wrong are very relative words, and depending on which value system you are using, they can mean drastically different things. Thus for a sunnist being right means following the hadith. For an atheist not believing in God and only accepting what can be measurable... etc.
The Guidance is determined by The God's Message which consists of the Al Quran and the Open Book of Allah's Laws that govern the Universes.
We can call following The Guidance being right, it is just semantics, but the Believer follows The Guidance, and therefore is guided.
Saying one is right is the ego playing and comes from the Devil.
And The God knows best.
Salam
Noble -
Consider not that Allah is unaware of that which the Zalimoon (musyrekeen, wrong-doers, etc.) do, but He gives them respite up to a Day when the eyes will stare in horror.
( , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #42)The cyclical of world's power revolvement (moslem-musyreek-moslem,-musyreek etc) about every 700 years. The time is now, we will be led by Promised Messias.
-
Don't believe, ignoring ? sun sun sun whatever
-
The cyclical of world's power revolvement (moslem-musyreek-moslem,-musyreek etc) about every 700 years. The time is now, we will be led by Promised Messias.
Is that a prophecy of you own? D
-
Peace Shaad,
And not only that, but all through the ages there has not been a single Moslem, at least not since the Battle of Karbala in which the Meccans obliterated the original community of the Prophet in 684.
Just trying to figure out how you came to this conclusion. ??? -
Not necessarily, not if we can help it at least. I can't help but notice there is a great deal of Sunni-bashing here which is understandable for two reasons 1. Many of us were previously 'Sunnis' if you could say that and 2. It fors the largest Hadith sect, however some of my best and most respected friends are still in that position of Ahl-us-Sunna and yes, I believe they do stuff that is not part of Islam however I also know that I am not perfect myself and I hope insha Allah that I will be forgiven just like my 'sunni' brothers.
Regarding sunni bashing (I know this one is shia site LOL) ...
http//www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?s=995812eff631df473649829cdf9d1372&showtopic=65769&st=0&p=849073&#entry849073Regarding sunni brothers, I think it depends on whether they have been invited to Allah alone or not. I was also sunni but alhamdulillah I don't reject the invitation to tawheed.
-
Peace Andy,
Well I have (or more correctly had) a very good long standing friend and business associate who is a sunni, and whom I invited to Quran/God Alone, I gave him the link to this site.
He told me I was a heretic, that I was rejecting half of my faith, and threatened me not to be my friend anymore if I carry on talking about this "poison"...
His view is that we should follow Islam through Ulama and Quran...
Anyways, he is not talking to me anymore...
Sometimes not that easy...