Robber Banks

salgan

Peace Noble and all

Lucky to live in Europe you are only fooling your self if you think that. we are trained Uncle Toms and what ever our Master tells us we believe . If you want to stay a slave then believe there crap if not start reading and checking up on every thing and then you will find out how crooked and manipulating the European banks are.

Remember that slaves are always expendable in an economy were there is glut of slaves.
No disrespect intended just want people to check and confirm for them selves rather than believing the hype of the good old West.

Peace Salim

noble

Peace
I guess I was talking for myself then, as I do not seem to have much trouble with my bank...
That being said, what do you propose we do? Talk is cheap...
For now there is no alternative to the current system, you can lobby of course and change some laws, but the core will stay the same, profit, profit, profit...
and yes you are right everyone is expandable, we are just pushing the catching up time...
Now if you take it from a cosmical Godly perspective, that is something else...
I do put my trust in The God, this is why I am here...

M_Mehdi

What do you think?

Salam Edip

Good article about the high cost of bank charges. I believe you're using the word usury loosely in the article when it's an actual service charge instead of intrest. A charge for a service is not the same as intrest. Here is a small list of what came to my mind as I read the article.

you don't need a bank account, no one forces you to have one
you don't need a checking account, it's a choice
if you are over drafting your checking account
a. you do not have enough money to have a checking account
b. get yourself better organized
c. close your account and use money orders, it's cheaper than the overdraft charges.
take a look at your amortization schedule and write an article about that! Amortization is an actual example of "usury".
Cash is still an accepted form of payment.

I look forward to reading more on http//robberbanks.org/ . I believe it's a great to make folks more aware of the practices of the banking system. I really would like to see an article based on amortization because it is in every sense the worst type of "usury".

peace

Edip_Yuksel

Thank you for the back, folks.

I appreciate your offer of design help, Nadeem. When we are ready with the content, I will contact you. Do you have any samples of your work?

As for Mahdi

Salam Edip

Good article about the high cost of bank charges. I believe you're using the word usury loosely in the article when it's an actual service charge instead of intrest. A charge for a service is not the same as intrest. Here is a small list of what came to my mind as I read the article.

Salam Mahdi.

I used the word usury deliberately, since the bank pays for me (without my request) and then charges me a fee. This is disguised form of imposed usury. This is not about writing a bouncing check, which might justify bank's fee or fine to deter its customers from abusing the name of the bank. However, it is about DEBIT card. The bank could easily program its system so that the debit card would not pay for my icecream when I do not have money in my checking account. Rather, the program is deliberately and cunningly designed to lend me as many times possible small amount of money so that the bank can charge me several thousand percent interest under the deceptive label, fee.

Now, let me hear your list

you don't need a bank account, no one forces you to have one

You are right. But, life would be more difficult without having a bank occount. The banks, through our so-called elected officials, have shaped our echo system according to their interests. As a society, however, we should be able to promote fairness in every aspect of life, including in the market of unnecessary things.

you don't need a checking account, it's a choice

Asking punishment for those who screw their customers, especially those who can afford the least (not necessarily me, since I have better income than most Americans), is also a choice, even a better one.

if you are over drafting your checking account
a. you do not have enough money to have a checking account
b. get yourself better organized
c. close your account and use money orders, it's cheaper than the overdraft charges.

and, what about

d. inform the customers and demand that their banks stop designing programs to steal their money.

Your argument is exactly the same argument used by those who opposed 8-hour work day, minimum wage, social security, job safety laws, discrimination laws, etc. People just could work for themselves or someone else. Please reflect on it.

take a look at your amortization schedule and write an article about that! Amortization is an actual example of "usury".

I will check this. Thanks.

Cash is still an accepted form of payment.

Yes, it is; but...

I look forward to reading more on http//robberbanks.org/ . I believe it's a great to make folks more aware of the practices of the banking system. I really would like to see an article based on amortization because it is in every sense the worst type of "usury". peace

I am looking forward to get your participation and contribution in terms of information.

Peace,
Edip

nadeem

Hi bro Edip,

I appreciate your offer of design help, Nadeem. When we are ready with the content, I will contact you. Do you have any samples of your work?

Design? No that's not what I meant. I'm a really poor designer.
What I meant was if you ever needed help setting up the website software/scripts, or wanted some features added to your site - then I could try to help

Sorry for being too vague the first time -)

God Willing when I master design, I will contribute more

Nadeem

unknownuser

Hello Edip,

I used the word usury deliberately, since the bank pays for me (without my request) and then charges me a fee. This is disguised form of imposed usury. This is not about writing a bouncing check, which might justify bank's fee or fine to deter its customers from abusing the name of the bank. However, it is about DEBIT card. The bank could easily program its system so that the debit card would not pay for my icecream when I do not have money in my checking account. Rather, the program is deliberately and cunningly designed to lend me as many times possible small amount of money so that the bank can charge me several thousand percent interest under the deceptive label, fee.

I believe the DEBIT card is the most convenient and safe form of transacting yet, avoiding check writing and cash handling. The advantage of a Debit card over check and cash transactions is undoubtedly significant. The only disadvantage of using this card against check writing, is that it cannot be post-dated or time-lapsed. Unlike CREDIT cards, it does not incur any fees nor interests, as long as sufficient funds are available in your checking account.

In order to avoid a nominal fee which the bank charges in case of insufficient funds, you should have an overdraft protection linked with your other banking accounts such as savings and/or business checking. Most of all my purchases are done via the Debit card and all my bills are paid on time via online banking without any fees whatsoever. Also, the small amounts of $300 or more (depending upon you credit standings) can be withdrawn per day from any ATM in which you bank at any time, without any charges and as long as there is sufficient funds in your account(s). Besides, now-a-days there are quite a few "niche" products offered by several banking institutions in competition to suit your needs. In today's society, banking is a must to establish credit standings, business relationships and personal financial control.

M_Mehdi

Salam Edip,

It's more simple brother, it's called personal responsiblity. I've lived my whole life so far without checks or a debit card and it's no more or less simple, nor difficult. I do find it strange that someone would pretend to know all of this, but still uses a debit card or would support a bank as such.

I'm sorry that you felt you have to compare me with someone who is "opposed to 8-hour work day, minimum wage, social security, job safety laws, discrimination laws, etc." The truth of course is far from your observation again, however I believe you'd have to actually get to know a person to know the truth about them. So therefore, I don't blame you for your defensive reply, for you do not know me. I'll know better next time when you ask, "what do you think?" that you mostly only want praise.

Thank you brother, I will refelct on your opprobrious response.

peace be on you.

Edip_Yuksel

Thank you Danish and Mahdi for your comments.

As for Mahdi

I am sorry that you took my response personally. I wanted to indicate the problem with your argument, since I believe that the same reasoning led those policy positions I enumurated .

I am in agreement with you regarding the importance of personal responsibility; but I believe that the slogan is currently abused by the capitalists to justify the corporate exploitation and corrupt businesses.

As for "mostly only wanting praise"

You are right Mahdi. As it seems, you too are sharing the same "mostly only want" with me. ;D And I am not as stingy as you are You are a very cool guy and keep it that way. sun

Peace,
Edip

M_Mehdi

Salam brother Edip,

I tried to call you tonight before posting my previous message. Seeing that you did not pick up the phone and knowing your busy schedule I thought I'd post and insha_Allah try and call you tomorrow. I think it would be very nice, next time you and your wife are in town, that you guys, together with my wife and me, go out for some tea. )

As for this

You are right Mahdi. As it seems, you too are sharing the same "mostly only want" with me. ;D And I am not as stingy as you are You are a very cool guy and keep it that way.

I must admit that I do not know what you mean by my being "stingy", however likewise about your compliment. None the less, I am very used to criticism due to music. I've often asked the same question as you, "What do you think?". However I understand that question to be an open invitation to view points positive or negative. I've learned when asking this question, I ask it with no pretense to defend my "article" but rather to earnestly know what people "think". Basicly, I've learned not to criticise the critic if I am the one asking for the criticism.

With this said, I want to thank you again. I do welcome your criticism of my argument because I do listen to what is being said. What we are doing here is personal, as we are personal beings. I pray in time you'll come to know me better so as to know where my view point is coming from.

I agree with you about

I believe that the slogan is currently abused by the capitalists to justify the corporate exploitation and corrupt businesses.

Yes, you are correct. I also would like to add, no matter how badly personal responsibility is abused, we are not to stray from the Path of it. Meaning, I agree with you about the corrupt practices of banks and such corporations. This is why I personaly do not have a checking account nor a debit card. It is my choice, my responsibility.

Anyway, thank you once again for your reply. Insha_Allah I'll give you a call tomorrow to see about getting that tea!

peace be on you )

unknownuser

Hello Mehdi,

It's more simple brother, it's called personal responsiblity. I've lived my whole life so far without checks or a debit card and it's no more or less simple, nor difficult. I do find it strange that someone would pretend to know all of this, but still uses a debit card or would support a bank as such.

I certainly would like to hear your "cashed-out" living without checks, debit card or banking which has made your life simpler. Care to share some of your personal responsibilities and experiences on how you're managing to do so? Thanks.

unknownuser

peace

you don't need a bank account, no one forces you to have one

this is not true in Denmark anymore. Its law to have a bank account. Norway and sweden are to follow tot he best of my knowledge. As are the rest of the world, we are once again testing ground up here because of our small size and high level of quote "education" unquote

you don't need a checking account, it's a choice

not anymore it aint.

if you are over drafting your checking account
a. you do not have enough money to have a checking account
b. get yourself better organized
c. close your account and use money orders, it's cheaper than the overdraft charges.

yes that would be the easy solution, but as the article pointed out, those who gets really hurt be it is those who dont have the choice and who is struggling just get get by. To talk about better organisation is arrogant, to someone who works 2 shit jobs just pay the interrest on basic survival, and this would be a whole lot of ameircans en europeans these days. Fighting just to have food in their mouth and warmth occationally.

Cash is still an accepted form of payment.

not for long. Cash can be counterfitted, and cash is helping al queda and druglords (the cia) dont you know? that is what the argument will bhe to remove them, besides digital "money" is safer right? .....right? ....ofcourse they are...BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT EVEN THERE!!!

peace

M_Mehdi

I certainly would like to hear your "cashed-out" living without checks, debit card or banking which has made your life simpler. Care to share some of your personal responsibilities and experiences on how you're managing to do so? Thanks.

Peace Danish,

Sure thing and thanks for asking. Please let me first clear any confusion you may have about what i'm saying. This is regards to one part of your question, the banking part. I opened a saving account only 7 years ago when I noticed that it was begining to be a risk to hold my savings. To put things in to perspective, I am 35 years old.When I did finaly open a saving account, they wanted to give me an ATM card, which I refused. I do not have a checking account therefore no debit card. I dislike the charges and practices of the service which a bank provides as per Edip's article.

I very easily managed to live without checks, thanks to one simple thing. Postal Money Orders. These are my bills which require a form of payment other than cash

1.Internet connection
2. cell phone (only on the scene two years ago)
3. sdg&e (gas and electric which became a bill only since last march)

It is very easy to walk down to the post office purchase a reliable money order and fill it out right there and lick the envolope(yuk) and put it in the mail. Everything else in life can easily be paid with cash. Please do not be completely misled by this, a few years ago I purchased a trumpet and did so on purpose on through the finance company which the store was providing. They were offering a 90day same as cash loan which I decided to take to have a little something on my credit. They approved me first because it was a small amount, my pay rate, and good standing work history. Ofcourse, I paid it off with well before the 90days. I do have one credit card right now for reason to help build credit which is always paid off at the end of the month to avoid intrest charges. I understand that in this society if one wishes to own a home it is necessary however it can be done responsibly (I edited my post in order to add this)

As to how I managed to live prior to the 7 years when I had no bank account at all, what I can say is even much more simple and freely. I was thrust into "responsiblity" at the age of 18 which led to a period of my life of homelessness. From there, it went from being without a home to sharing a home, from sharing a home to a studio of my own, from a studio to a one bedroom and now my wife and are renting a two bedroom house. I thank God for all that we have and even more so for all that we don't. I live a simple life, perhaps this is what brother Edip considers "stingy" at which i would have to say it is pretty sad. Although I'm not sure and I am treding conjucture here. My and thank God, my wife's joy do not involve hours on end being at the mall or shopping. As a matter of fact if we go, I am always amazed at how much the parking lot of each mall so filled up! What are people buying so much of off?? Well, I believe the massive consumersim is a psychological problem that our society needs to face, and unfortunately it doesn't face it well.. But now I'm going off of subject.

Anyway, hope that answers your question, please never hesitate to ask if you have more.

peace...

M_Mehdi

peace Magi,

Sounds like you live in a pretty crappy place, if it's the law to have to have a bank account! Sounds like you'll have that bar code tattood on you any day now! -\

To talk about better organisation is arrogant, to someone who works 2 s*** jobs just pay the interrest on basic survival, and this would be a whole lot of ameircans en europeans these days.

I suppose it's arrogant if you wish to take it that way. I disagree. Where I live is one of the higher cost of living cities in the US. Yes, times suck and everyone is struggling etc. There is one difference however. I see those who are better organised and take into account Providance and happy about what they have and even more Thankful to God for what they don't, live a better quality of life than those who even have great material wealth! One must learn to be appreciative first brother.

As for the cash thing. You are probably correct. This is in my post I said "still an accepted form of payment."

Thank you for your post brother Noah, also please remember fear is the mind killer. We learn to fast for many reasons, fasting isn't so bad.

peace be on you.

unknownuser

Edip,

You're scratching the surface of a very important problem. There are many other ways we're being defrauded with what is called fiat currency and the fractional banking reserve system. When you have $100 in the bank the bank can lend that to nine customers because of what is called a reserve requirement typically 9-10%. Hence, when all this money is out and you think you're saving there is all this borrowed money floating around causing prices to rise, in reality the value of your money eroding.

Then what you find behind the banking system is the federal reserve, which is not federal neither has reserves but has the franchise to print money out of thin air. And, on this thin air it charges you those $30 fees which implies returns of infinity. Incidentally, the Federal Reserve legislation was prepared by the usual suscpects Rothschilds, Morgans and Rockefellers included at an island called Jekyll Island in 1910 and came into being as law on 1913. The banking crisis was naturally created so we have a federal reserve and we became slowly and slowly enslaved. Pres. Woodrof Wilson died as a very regretful man it is rumoured.

I think the idea for a site is a great one, though I recommend you dig deep and I am sure you're the sort of guy that will rattle a few cages. Because, my friend you've bumped into the tool that enslaves humanity. This system pays sweat shop wages and enslaves them big style, it is about big profits for big corporations and the support of corrupt regimes who are in the pockets of western interests. Money makes the world go round, and the "money" in our pockets is nothing but promises to pay which is fraudelently inflated and stolen quietly, they're fake. The fiat currency does not qualify as currency according to the Qur'an either, as each exchange practically needs to extinguish, there is no nothing for something in the Qur'an as I understand. The debt contract requires witnesses and is between two parties, there is no passing this around as a legitimate source of exchange. Furthermore, todays currency is based on interest and debt. There is not enough to go around to make good on all debts with added interest, therefore more must be printed.

Here is a ground breaking book, I can guarantee it is going to be an eye opener. You are going to have an "aha" moment my friend unless you know more than you're leading is on.

The book is written by Edward Griffin and it is called the Creature from Jekyll island. Once you read it perhaps this might give some good ideas for the site.

Peace

unknownuser

Hello Mehdi,

The hassle of going to post office, utilizing money orders and the costs associated with it is far greater than you think. Carrying cash each time on purchases is rather unsafe and cumbersome especially on 'pricy' stuff. Some online companies do not accept cash, checks or money orders, should you decide to purchase, where your debit or credit card becomes handy and in other cases of immediate needs.

Personally, I believe you'd be better off opening a checking account, getting a Debit card and an online account which doesn't cost a dime. Besides you also get to keep the first set of checks supplied to you at no cost (which you may hardly use) and manage and strategize your financial assests with ease and efficiency. Don't forget that you already have a profit bearing account. A Credit Card is definitely helpful in many ways as well.

unknownuser

peace mehdi

Sorry im a bit worked up these times. I agree with what you say, its a matter of us both speaking truely from each our angle.
The crazy thing is...i live in Denmark. You know that little bank of sand that lokos like a face placed right under norway? We are again and again praised as the champoins of democracy because of our socalled "socialdemocracy". well ill tell you what, we have what most can expect to get. Socialism disguised as kapitalism with a democratism front. thats a lot of isms going on there man...and it piss me right of. We will soon get the barcode, and people will praise it, because after all....we chose it ourself as we "elceted" the people who made it law.

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! brickwall

Edip_Yuksel

Dear Mahdi, Danish, Ash Shuura, and others

Thank you very much for your valuable imput. I confess that I have little knowledge in banking and finance; but the conspiracy between bankers and the government to exploit the working class in favor of the richest segment of the population is so obvious, even a person with no special knowledge of economy can discern.

So,

While working to create group of experts, lawyers, ecnomists, activists for the bankrobbers.com I would like to get your permission to use some of your postings here in that site.

In that regard, I find Mahd'is avoidance of banks a good way to educate people who might be able to function without a bank account, though I do not think that it will solve the big problem. We cannot bystand this robbery just because some people are not as responsible or cannot afford that much responsibility as brother Mahdi does. We may blame the INDIVIDUAL victim for not putting more locks on her door, but at the same time we should also, as SOCIETY, find a way to punish and deter the burglars and would be burglars. Through www.bankrobbers.org (or .com) site, I hope to deal with the social/legal aspect of the problem.

I also would like to invite Ash Shuura's contribution to the site, since it seems that s/he is informed on many related issues.

As you may note, I do not want to create a boring expert-friendly website; but an informative and lay-friendly website. Our real audiance are average Jon and Jill who are skimmed by the banking industry and its accomplices in Washington.

Peace,
Edip

Samia

A few months ago a court in the UK ruled in favour of a customer against one of the banks on th issue of these charges, saying that the (expenses) incurred by the bank for returning an unpaid DD, S.O or a check do not warrant such an expensive price (?38.00). Unfortunately, banks still charge this amount, because people do not know, or they know and do not bother about filing a court case against the bank.

unknownuser

Peace all,

The system of monetary gains and loses, the influx of National and International funds to induce capitalization and the circulation and re-direction of reserves by lending and borrowing through World financial institutions combined, is how our entire generation over a short period to time has affected our World Economy. It would simply be hardpressed to avoid banking in totality on both National and International Corporate Fronts to turn our World Econonmy by 360 degrees to put us back on an all-out cash dependency or perhaps even back to the "good old" barter system, which I'm afraid will not work Today.

If people start to invalidate or shun banking, what do you think would happen over the long run knowing our advanced techonological outfits? What other measures can be accommodated to better our banking system rather than avoiding it?

unknownuser

Peace Danish,

With the barter system you get transactions extinguished, the essence of a fair transaction is I give you something and you give me something in return. If you give me a piece of paper that says $100 on it and I keep it for 12 months the supply of it increases 10% then it becomes only worth $90. So, I pass this onto someone else and in another 12 months it becomes worth $81. This pilfirage does not dissipate into thin air as this is debt not money, it has interest to be paid on it too. Hence, for facilitating transactions you're paying a toll to the invisible hand of the banking cartel.

Where does inflation go? It goes to those who hold all the wealth and those who print it out of thin air. Why? Because the government issues bonds to the Fed, Fed writes a check out of thin air, deposits into the governments account and if you are government employee it pays you with this funny money. Say if there were 100 of $1 bills and 100 apples in an economy with the addition of 100 more $1 bills and apple has become $2. In addition the result is government is in more debt, and it charges you taxes to pay the debt off and so on.

I'll tell you a better system, as described in the Qur'an silver and gold which has no debt, and when we exchange we each get something that has intrinsic value. Furthermore, banks should go back to being warehouses that charge small transaction and storage fees where we know how much we're paying. And, we do not lose the value of money because the supply is steady. Otherwise whilst we're creating it by work the bankers just run the printing presses. It costs them almost nothing. Is your time worth almost nothing? The essential element here is 1 for 1 reserve. If I pass you a warehouse receipt of 100 oz silver coins when you turn up at the warehouse they better be there. Hence, 1 for 1 reserve means they can't be lent over and over again.

Is this far fetched? No. There is already electronic gold and silver which works for 1 for 1 and technically I can send you gold or silver by email. It will be transferred from my account to yours in a matter of seconds. Guess what? Since gold or silver does not go bankrupt there is no risk of default either. But if the Weimar scenario happened in the US, which I think is close, those dollars would not be worth as much as toilet paper.

Hence, I believe there are viable and sensible alternatives. We need to educate ourselves and learn about money and banking. And, I haven't even touched how all the evils in this world, all the wars are tied to banking interests yet. brickwall

Peace