Finally another Quranic prophecy is fulfilled

Layth

Peace,

Why is this issue being viewed as prophetic?

I always understood the refernce in Sura 12 was establishing a fact that 12 planets exist in our solar system (discounting the sun and the moon).

If science is able to now see what the Quran had stated centuries ago as fact, then good for them...If not, then there is no doubt in my mind that they eventually will.

This is similar to the Quranic fact that the heart is the source of conviction (not the mind)...Only now is science begining to scratch the surface and realize that the heart is not merely a muscle that pumps blood but has other functions possibly related with decision making or memory.

Al-Quraishi

Thank you brother Al-Quraishi for your reminder.

I might be wrong in this matter. I am going to give up from this interpretation of mine. I cannot insist on "prophetic" nature of a questionable understanding.

Peace,
Edip

Salam Edip, no, I apologise to you, I was at error for nearly making you give up on this; perhaps I shouldn't have dismissed it so quickly on such grounds of the IAU, and perhaps you shouldn't have come to the conclusion so quickly.

I will look deeper into this myself, I will see for you if there is a definite distinction between the twelve planets and the other spherical bodies in the Solar system, and I will see some peers in Astrophysics at my University to get a look at their views and I will relate all this to you directly.

unknownuser

With the discovery of three more planets, finally the scientific and prophetic implication of verse 124 is fulfilled. In chapter 12, Jacob's 12 sons are likened to planets.

I referred to this fact in one of my Turkish books published in 1980's, including in a footnote to the verse 124 in my Turkish translation of the Quran, Mesaj, which its first publication realized in 1999.

Peace,
Edip

the Sumerians apparently were aware of 12 planets 6000 years ago, so its not something that excactly make me fall flat on my arse, to be honest

Peace

Andya_Primanda

Guys, it's 8 planets now. So the 'prophecy' has failed.

http//www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.org/iau0603/index.html

"This means that the Solar System consists of eight "planets" Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. A new distinct class of objects called "dwarf planets" was also decided. It was agreed that "planets" and "dwarf planets" are two distinct classes of objects. The first members of the "dwarf planet" category are Ceres, Pluto and 2003 UB313 (temporary name). More "dwarf planets" are expected to be announced by the IAU in the coming months and years. Currently a dozen candidate "dwarf planets" are listed on IAU's "dwarf planet" watchlist, which keeps changing as new objects are found and the physics of the existing candidates becomes better known."

Edip_Yuksel

Dear Andya

Here is my footnote for the verse

012004 The dream perhaps has another prophetic meaning besides the one related to Joseph's family. For Joseph and his family, the dream was fulfilled about 2600 years ago with a good ending (12100). As for the other meaning of the dream, it is still waiting to be fulfilled. Does this allegory give us a clue regarding the number of planets in the solar system? In a Turkish book on the scientific aspect of the Quran, "Kuran En B?y?k Mucize," (Quran the Greatest Miracle), co-authored by Ahmad Deedat and me, (1983-1987), and my Turkish translation of the Quran, Mesaj, which was first published in 1999, I pulled the attention of the reader to this implication. Though the number of planets in our solar system may ultimately be determined by the conventional definition of astronomers and remain controversial for long time to come, the discovery of the tenth planet in July 2005, might follow with the discovery of other planets. Interestingly, the differences between planets and the controversy around them too resembles the differences between brothers and half brothers and their acceptance and dynamics in the family. The Old Testament narrates the same dream; however, because of transnational errors, the word "planet" in the dream is translated as "star" (Genesis 379). The story of Joseph starting with his dream when he was seventeen years-old, takes several chapters in Genesis, from chapter 37 to 50, its last chapter.

Peace,
Edip

Al-Quraishi

Guys, it's 8 planets now. So the 'prophecy' has failed.

http//www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.org/iau0603/index.html

"This means that the Solar System consists of eight "planets" Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. A new distinct class of objects called "dwarf planets" was also decided. It was agreed that "planets" and "dwarf planets" are two distinct classes of objects. The first members of the "dwarf planet" category are Ceres, Pluto and 2003 UB313 (temporary name). More "dwarf planets" are expected to be announced by the IAU in the coming months and years. Currently a dozen candidate "dwarf planets" are listed on IAU's "dwarf planet" watchlist, which keeps changing as new objects are found and the physics of the existing candidates becomes better known."

Yeah, apparently there may be 50 such object (dwarf planets) in the solar system -\

unknownuser

Hello All

Actually astronomers have conterversily approved new guidlines under which Pluto is no longer defined as aplanet

Pluto no longer a planet

August 25, 2006 1200am

PLUTO was stripped of its status as a planet overnight when scientists from around the world redefined it as a "dwarf planet", leaving just eight classical planets in the solar system.

With one vote, toys and models of the solar system became instantly obsolete, forcing teachers and publishers to scramble to update textbooks and lessons used in classrooms for decades.
?Pluto is dead,? Mike Brown of the California Institute of Technology bluntly said on a teleconference.

Discovered in 1930 by the American Clyde Tombaugh, Pluto has traditionally been considered the ninth planet, farthest from the sun in the solar system.

However, the definition of a planet approved after a heated debate among 2500 scientists from the International Astronomical Union (IAU) meeting in Prague drew a clear distinction between Pluto and the other eight planets.

The need to define what is a planet was driven by technological advances enabling astronomers to look farther into space and to measure more precisely the size of celestial bodies.

Mr Brown added impetus to the decades-old debate on the definition of a planet when he discovered UB313 in 2003. Xena, as it is nicknamed, is larger than Pluto, instantly creating a buzz over whether a new planet had been discovered.

The scientists agreed that, to be called a planet, a celestial body must be in orbit around a star while not itself being a star.

It must be large enough in mass for its own gravity to pull it into a nearly spherical shape and have cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.

Pluto was disqualified because its oblong orbit overlaps with Neptune's. Xena also does not make the grade of being a planet, and will also be known as a dwarf planet.

?It's an issue mainly for the public, not really for scientists. Some people may be upset, but we've long regarded it (Pluto) as a minor planet,? said Richard Miller of the University of Chicago.

The new definition - the first time the IAU has tried to define scientifically what a planet is - means a second category called ?dwarf planets?, has been created, as well as a third category for all other objects, except satellites, known as small solar system bodies.

?We are just defining a new class of planets and I think it's very appropriate. We are finding more planets in our solar system, and some are larger than Pluto,? said Philip Diamond, a professor at the University of Manchester and a delegate attending the IAU meeting.

?I think what we have done is a good thing, we have actually expanded the number of planets in our solar system, but just spread them over two categories.?

From now on, traditional planets will be restricted to eight Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.

Meanwhile, the widow of Clyde Tombaugh said he would have understood why his discovery was demoted to non-planet status because he was a good scientist.

?Clyde said, 'Well, it's there. You can do what you want with it',? Patricia Tombaugh, 94, said from her home in Las Cruces, New Mexico.

Her husband, who discovered Pluto while working at the Lowell Observatory in Arizona, was disappointed and frustrated when scientists began questioning its status.

But, she said ?Clyde would have said, 'Science is a progressive thing and if you're going to be a scientist and put your neck out, you're apt to have it bitten upon'.?

Mrs Tombaugh said a tiny amount of her husband's ashes were on a spacecraft bound for Pluto.

MESSAGE114

Dear all,

Just to share. Sometimes in 1981, I have read a book written by one muslim astronomy scientist by the name of Bapak Nazwar Syamsu, from Surabaya, Indonesia. His book causes controversy, especially amongst traditionalist muslims in that region.
I just give some examples of his writings

He said there are actually 10 planets namely, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto and the last one he named in SIdratul Muntaha or Planet Muntaha already stated in the Quran. The 10th planet is very big, green in color is the last in our solar system. That planet is where Adam came from. He said Adam is not the first man created, because there are thousands of Adam before him. Proof, he said, when ALLAH wants to create Adam as a khalifah on Planet Earth, every angels reject the idea. The angels said, there will be more bloodshed on Planet earth. This statement by the angles proof that there are some killings happening somewhere. When one of the angels who happen to be Iblis, reject God's command, so he and Adam were transferred from Planet Muntaha to Planet Earth.
Professor Nazwar Syamsu, also said the story of Israk Mikraj, that we use to hear were baseless only Israilliyat stories. He said how come Moses instruct Muhammad back and forth to reduce the solat time. All stories were wrong. Muhammad actually he said, during Israk Mikraj really have a journey through space, but not on a bird, but on a Buraq some transportation that have the speed of light towards Planet Muntaha. Muhammad actually never meet other prophets wha happen to have been dead for many many years ago. He return back to earth.
The painful after death, example beaten by Munkar Nakir in the graveyard, never happen. After death, everything stop, our feelings stop, so how can we feel pain. He said all these stories after death were baseless and non-quranic.
He said Jesus, have no tomb on Planet Earth, but he was instructed by God to travel to space and never return back. He is dead already in other planets. The story of Imam Mahdi is also baseless.

I don't know if some of Indonesian readers here have heard of him.

Just to share information.

Wassalam.

unknownuser

Dear all,

Just to share. Sometimes in 1981, I have read a book written by one muslim astronomy scientist by the name of Bapak Nazwar Syamsu, from Surabaya, Indonesia. His book causes controversy, especially amongst traditionalist muslims in that region.
I just give some examples of his writings

He said there are actually 10 planets namely, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto and the last one he named in SIdratul Muntaha or Planet Muntaha already stated in the Quran. The 10th planet is very big, green in color is the last in our solar system. That planet is where Adam came from. He said Adam is not the first man created, because there are thousands of Adam before him. Proof, he said, when ALLAH wants to create Adam as a khalifah on Planet Earth, every angels reject the idea. The angels said, there will be more bloodshed on Planet earth. This statement by the angles proof that there are some killings happening somewhere. When one of the angels who happen to be Iblis, reject God's command, so he and Adam were transferred from Planet Muntaha to Planet Earth.
Professor Nazwar Syamsu, also said the story of Israk Mikraj, that we use to hear were baseless only Israilliyat stories. He said how come Moses instruct Muhammad back and forth to reduce the solat time. All stories were wrong. Muhammad actually he said, during Israk Mikraj really have a journey through space, but not on a bird, but on a Buraq some transportation that have the speed of light towards Planet Muntaha. Muhammad actually never meet other prophets wha happen to have been dead for many many years ago. He return back to earth.
The painful after death, example beaten by Munkar Nakir in the graveyard, never happen. After death, everything stop, our feelings stop, so how can we feel pain. He said all these stories after death were baseless and non-quranic.
He said Jesus, have no tomb on Planet Earth, but he was instructed by God to travel to space and never return back. He is dead already in other planets. The story of Imam Mahdi is also baseless.

I don't know if some of Indonesian readers here have heard of him.

Just to share information.

Wassalam.

peace

I know where he got that poppycock from http//www.sitchin.com/

Andya_Primanda

Peace Message114,

I'm Indonesian, and I've never heard of this Nazwar Syamsu person . And as knowledgeable brother Magi has pointed out, his views are a bit nonsense, but his non-hadith explanations might be similar to ours.

Btw, if you're Indonesian also, check out our regional thread at the Asia/Middle East section if you haven't already.

siki

I dont understand why are we bent upon proving edip wrong ... come on guys it is so easy to criticize and find faults, Researchers on the cutting edge do not always turn out to be right every time . Unless one has the capability and courage to venture in the region of unknown ,there is virtually no chance for one to score a hit, where as in this case ,his chances are very bright WHAT God knows, the scientists only discover

If the ayat was only meant to be pointing towards yousaf's brothers, i think God could have used the word NAJAM( which means star) in this ayat ,and it would not have made any difference ,but when he said kokab , he meant it , to serve another purpse as well , specially when in those times people could not differentiate between the two . quran has multiple quoting of the word NAJAM , but very few (probably 3) of KOKAB...AND KOKAB MEANS KOKAB and now we know what it means , not back then

When creator says 11 planets, well they are and i have no doubts about it , the only issue i am worried is , weather planets are total 12 , like 11 brothers plus yousaf (11 planets and the earth )or GOD is telling us the total number as 11?

sikandar

unknownuser

Peace All

Very interesting info Bro Edip thanks...
I never heard of that aya being related to planets. Are there other hypotheses or is this what most people believe? I can't talk much about science since I try to stay far away from it as much as possible ... gives me the hives ;D

unknownuser

I dont understand why are we bent upon proving edip wrong ... come on guys it is so easy to criticize and find faults

Peace

and its even easyer to be mislead by our desire to prove our pet ideas right.

http//www.thesyms.net/resources/images/users/johnnybravo/JohnnyBravo/med_jesus_toast.jpg

OMG Jesus speaks through toast

http//www.victorynewsmagazine.com/images/MuslimFishMed.jpg

and God "tags" on fish

Edips suggestion is not "out there" but it is as with all other "prophecy" its so shady it can be interpretated practically any way you want to. Just like any scripture.

XzXaN

With the discovery of three more planets, finally the scientific and prophetic implication of verse 124 is fulfilled. In chapter 12, Jacob's 12 sons are likened to planets.

I referred to this fact in one of my Turkish books published in 1980's, including in a footnote to the verse 124 in my Turkish translation of the Quran, Mesaj, which its first publication realized in 1999.

Peace,
Edip

wut will happen if they discovered another planet will u relate another verse with it n say look the prophecy is fullfilled or u will look in to new discoveries with another verse to keep living in u,r dream world

Edip_Yuksel

Dear XzXan

I have too many reasons to trust the Quran. I shared with people my understanding of an implied prophecy of the Quran.

I believe that the last word is yet to be said on the number of planets. It is interesting that the Quran

Likens the 12 children and their parents to the solar system and 12 planets.
It is interesting that the then commonly accepted idea of "seven planets" is not mentioned.
It is interesting that astronomers are not in agreement (recent controversy is just one of the many points in trying to define the solar family).
It is interesting that the relationship of 12 children were too contentious and subject to discrimination.

Peace,
Edip

XzXaN

Dear XzXan

I have too many reasons to trust the Quran. I shared with people my understanding of an implied prophecy of the Quran.

I believe that the last word is yet to be said on the number of planets. It is interesting that the Quran

Likens the 12 children and their parents to the solar system and 12 planets.
It is interesting that the then commonly accepted idea of "seven planets" is not mentioned.
It is interesting that astronomers are not in agreement (recent controversy is just one of the many points in trying to define the solar family).
It is interesting that the relationship of 12 children were too contentious and subject to discrimination.

Peace,
Edip

Dear Edip

u r just so smart .....u know u have hit the jack pot here is every idiot scientist in the world searching the universe for unanswer questions n u just found it in a 1400 year old book. could u find that in Quran that wut is the exact number of galaxies or stars in the universe

why should we wait for those lazy scientist to discover something new why not we just made those discoveries through Quran n since u r an expert on Quran why dont u just make some new discoveries for us

Edip_Yuksel

Dear Edip

u r just so smart .....u know u have hit the jack pot here is every idiot scientist in the world searching the universe for unanswer questions n u just found it in a 1400 year old book. could u find that in Quran that wut is the exact number of galaxies or stars in the universe

why should we wait for those lazy scientist to discover something new why not we just made those discoveries through Quran n since u r an expert on Quran why dont u just make some new discoveries for us

First, the purpose of the Quran is not to teach us science and technology. However, the Quran refers to many natural objects and events, such as embriology, astronomy, cosmology, archeology, etc, and NONE the information it provided has been proven wrong. To the contrary, many of Quranic information has been supported by evidences of modern science.

As for your question... Your challenge is not a very good one. Your challenge is not only inflicted with ambiguity because of the definition of star (like the definition of planet), it is also almost impossible to verify or falsify practically because of the vastness of space. Thus, it has much less scientific value than the number of planets. Why should you accept such an information? For instance, let's assume that the Quran stated that there are 42,085,334,895,277,091 stars in the universe. Would you believe it?

If you are interested in learning verses of the Quran supported my modern science, please let me know. If you are here just to reject, than no evidence will convince you.

Peace,
Edip

XzXaN

Dear Edip

u r just so smart .....u know u have hit the jack pot here is every idiot scientist in the world searching the universe for unanswer questions n u just found it in a 1400 year old book. could u find that in Quran that wut is the exact number of galaxies or stars in the universe

why should we wait for those lazy scientist to discover something new why not we just made those discoveries through Quran n since u r an expert on Quran why dont u just make some new discoveries for us

First, the purpose of the Quran is not to teach us science and technology. However, the Quran refers to many natural objects and events, such as embriology, astronomy, cosmology, archeology, etc, and NONE the information it provided has been proven wrong. To the contrary, many of Quranic information has been supported by evidences of modern science.

As for your question... Your challenge is not a very good one. Your challenge is not only inflicted with ambiguity because of the definition of star (like the definition of planet), it is also almost impossible to verify or falsify practically because of the vastness of space. Thus, it has much less scientific value than the number of planets. Why should you accept such an information? For instance, let's assume that the Quran stated that there are 42,085,334,895,277,091 stars in the universe. Would you believe it?

If you are interested in learning verses of the Quran supported my modern science, please let me know. If you are here just to reject, than no evidence will convince you.

Peace,
Edip

First, the purpose of the Quran is not to teach us science and technology. However, the Quran refers to many natural objects and events, such as embriology, astronomy, cosmology, archeology, etc, and NONE the information it provided has been proven wrong. To the contrary, many of Quranic information has been supported by evidences of modern science.
wut about those Quranic information which r not supported by evidence or evidences of modern science ,where r u going to place them

if science is the judge of u,r faith then wut about the parts of science which doesnot support u,r faith.

if science is going to prove that u,r religion is the right one then isnt those part of science which doesnot support u,r religion r not enough to prove that u,r religion is wrong.

As for your question... Your challenge is not a very good one. Your challenge is not only inflicted with ambiguity because of the definition of star (like the definition of planet), it is also almost impossible to verify or falsify practically because of the vastness of space. Thus, it has much less scientific value than the number of planets. Why should you accept such an information? For instance, let's assume that the Quran stated that there are 42,085,334,895,277,091 stars in the universe. Would you believe it?

Isnt u,r Quran claims that its the complete book n nothing is left ,why cant it give me a simple answer of a simple question

how many planets r there?

hey i,m not the one who is claiming any thing its u,r own god who said nothing is left out

If you are interested in learning verses of the Quran supported my modern science, please let me know. If you are here just to reject, than no evidence will convince you.
am i,m more powerfull than u,r perfect religion that i cant be convinced ,why is u,r religion so weak infront of a simple human?

unknownuser

That's the most ridiculous comment i've ever heard seriously. When the quran states that nothing is left out, it doesn't mean every bit of information is in there. A person hooked on crack could figure out that it's not a phonebook/encyclopedia/dictionary what the heck. Please if you have issues with the quran at least make a decent enough argument instead of some b.s. about ' oh look it says nothing is left out so where is (fill in the blank)"
You kind of have to use your brain when you're reading something and not just be a smart a** just for the sake of it

XzXaN

That's the most ridiculous comment i've ever heard seriously. When the quran states that nothing is left out, it doesn't mean every bit of information is in there. A person hooked on crack could figure out that it's not a phonebook/encyclopedia/dictionary what the heck. Please if you have issues with the quran at least make a decent enough argument instead of some b.s. about ' oh look it says nothing is left out so where is (fill in the blank)"
You kind of have to use your brain when you're reading something and not just be a smart a** just for the sake of it

im not saying anything out of my desire i,m just saying wut Quran is saying n it looks ridicules to u ,why doesnt it looks ridicules when u r reading it for u,r self dont u think u need its time to use the gray matter in u,r head