Finally another Quranic prophecy is fulfilled
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With the discovery of three more planets, finally the scientific and prophetic implication of verse 124 is fulfilled. In chapter 12, Jacob's 12 sons are likened to planets.
I referred to this fact in one of my Turkish books published in 1980's, including in a footnote to the verse 124 in my Turkish translation of the Quran, Mesaj, which its first publication realized in 1999.
Peace,
Edip -
Indeed, I have wondered the same thing about this verse, however we cannot be too hasty about its interpretation.
The institution that has added these three planets may very well add more bodies to the Solar System, I am glad at their classification, it's simple just to say that if the body orbiting the sun has enough mass to form a sphere then it's a planet and anything orbiting it can be a moon.
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Peace be upon you,
If this is taken literal, then wouldnt this prophecy have been fulfilled when Joseph said it was fulfilled? What did Joseph mean when he said his dream came true?
The plantes were a SYMBOL of something, not a literal prophecy to be fulfilled in 2006.
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Exactly, as I said, there are more bodies in the solar system and undoubtedly even more to be discovered with this classification, just because three have been added now doesn't mean that they don't know of others. There's even one that looks like a squashed sphere! So I think they may be debating how to deal with that!
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I do think that the current definition of planet is not arbitrary since it is based on the signs of the nature, that is gravity and its impact on mass.
The Quran is more interesting that most people even imagine. Unfortunately, it is not appreciated by many. The beauty of many Quranic verses is in their multiple application or implications.
I find it no accident that the 12 children of Jacob were likened to planets in a chapter that is placed in 12th position. I had in the past wrote a bookled on the chemical characteristics of iron atom in the Quran.
The Quran is an interesting, a very interesting book, as confessed by Jins in chapter 72.
Based on the implication of the Quran, in 1989 I declared that the maximum number of stable elements to be 114, equal to the number of chapters in the Quran. Two professors of chemistry were present in the group (Masjid Tucson) where I argued my reasoning for such a claim. They were pleased to hear that since they had some theoretical knowledge of chemistry that I did not have. Since then, the number 114 stands as the maximum number of stable elements.
Peace,
Edip -
Peace be upon you Edip,
Yes, there are many amazing aspects of this reading(quran), I just respectfully disagree with this particular understanding that you have brought forth regarding 12 planets. Just as you might respectfully disagree with my understanin that the number 12 deals with the 12 signs of the zodiac. Astrology helps us figure out the cycle of energies that effect us in our lives, which if done properly can help us forsee future events, just as Joseph could do.
The number 12 has long been a indicator of astrology, which is why God's SUN(not Son) hung out with 12 disciples. And dies for three days (winter solstice) and was born again/ressurected on Dec 25, and celebrate the passover of longer nights with longer days on March 21st, etc. It is the God's SUN (not son) that gives its life so that we may live (suns energy is responsible for all life).
So this talk of 12 is symbolism, not anything to do with a literal count of planets.
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I do think that the current definition of planet is not arbitrary since it is based on the signs of the nature, that is gravity and its impact on mass.
You haven't read what I've said Edip
The institution that has added these three planets may very well add more bodies to the Solar System, I am glad at their classification, it's simple just to say that if the body orbiting the sun has enough mass to form a sphere then it's a planet and anything orbiting it can be a moon.
Exactly, as I said, there are more bodies in the solar system and undoubtedly even more to be discovered with this classification, just because three have been added now doesn't mean that they don't know of others. There's even one that looks like a squashed sphere! So I think they may be debating how to deal with that!
I'm telling you, there are undoubtedly more spherical bodies in the Solar System, it's just a case of finding them, it's not always as easy as you think, when they are found more planets may be added by the International Astronomical Union.
I find it quite strange that you are insisting on this interpretation based on the conventions laid down by the IAU, which are undoubtedly going to be changed in the future, it sounds a bit silly when it's put in this way really, doesn't it?
There's even one that looks like a squashed sphere! So I think they may be debating how to deal with that!
Even this whole classification of a sphere has its grey areas, the Earth isn't even a perfect sphere, so these definitions (which are thus decided by the IAU) get really messy.
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Thank you brother Al-Quraishi for your reminder.
I might be wrong in this matter. I am going to give up from this interpretation of mine. I cannot insist on "prophetic" nature of a questionable understanding.
Peace,
Edip -
Peace,
Why is this issue being viewed as
prophetic?I always understood the refernce in Sura 12 was establishing a fact that 12 planets exist in our solar system (discounting the sun and the moon).
If science is able to now see what the Quran had stated centuries ago as fact, then good for them...If not, then there is no doubt in my mind that they eventually will.
This is similar to the Quranic fact that the
heartis the source of conviction (not the mind)...Only now is science begining to scratch the surface and realize that the heart is not merely a muscle that pumps blood but has other functions possibly related with decision making or memory. -
Thank you brother Al-Quraishi for your reminder.
I might be wrong in this matter. I am going to give up from this interpretation of mine. I cannot insist on "prophetic" nature of a questionable understanding.
Peace,
EdipSalam Edip, no, I apologise to you, I was at error for nearly making you give up on this; perhaps I shouldn't have dismissed it so quickly on such grounds of the IAU, and perhaps you shouldn't have come to the conclusion so quickly.
I will look deeper into this myself, I will see for you if there is a definite distinction between the twelve planets and the other spherical bodies in the Solar system, and I will see some peers in Astrophysics at my University to get a look at their views and I will relate all this to you directly.
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With the discovery of three more planets, finally the scientific and prophetic implication of verse 124 is fulfilled. In chapter 12, Jacob's 12 sons are likened to planets.
I referred to this fact in one of my Turkish books published in 1980's, including in a footnote to the verse 124 in my Turkish translation of the Quran, Mesaj, which its first publication realized in 1999.
Peace,
Edipthe Sumerians apparently were aware of 12 planets 6000 years ago, so its not something that excactly make me fall flat on my arse, to be honest
Peace
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Guys, it's 8 planets now. So the 'prophecy' has failed.
http//www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.org/iau0603/index.html
"This means that the Solar System consists of eight "planets" Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. A new distinct class of objects called "dwarf planets" was also decided. It was agreed that "planets" and "dwarf planets" are two distinct classes of objects. The first members of the "dwarf planet" category are Ceres, Pluto and 2003 UB313 (temporary name). More "dwarf planets" are expected to be announced by the IAU in the coming months and years. Currently a dozen candidate "dwarf planets" are listed on IAU's "dwarf planet" watchlist, which keeps changing as new objects are found and the physics of the existing candidates becomes better known."
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Dear Andya
Here is my footnote for the verse
012004 The dream perhaps has another prophetic meaning besides the one related to Joseph's family. For Joseph and his family, the dream was fulfilled about 2600 years ago with a good ending (12100). As for the other meaning of the dream, it is still waiting to be fulfilled. Does this allegory give us a clue regarding the number of planets in the solar system? In a Turkish book on the scientific aspect of the Quran, "Kuran En B?y?k Mucize," (Quran the Greatest Miracle), co-authored by Ahmad Deedat and me, (1983-1987), and my Turkish translation of the Quran, Mesaj, which was first published in 1999, I pulled the attention of the reader to this implication. Though the number of planets in our solar system may ultimately be determined by the conventional definition of astronomers and remain controversial for long time to come, the discovery of the tenth planet in July 2005, might follow with the discovery of other planets. Interestingly, the differences between planets and the controversy around them too resembles the differences between brothers and half brothers and their acceptance and dynamics in the family. The Old Testament narrates the same dream; however, because of transnational errors, the word "planet" in the dream is translated as "star" (Genesis 379). The story of Joseph starting with his dream when he was seventeen years-old, takes several chapters in Genesis, from chapter 37 to 50, its last chapter.
Peace,
Edip -
Guys, it's 8 planets now. So the 'prophecy' has failed.
http//www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.org/iau0603/index.html
"This means that the Solar System consists of eight "planets" Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. A new distinct class of objects called "dwarf planets" was also decided. It was agreed that "planets" and "dwarf planets" are two distinct classes of objects. The first members of the "dwarf planet" category are Ceres, Pluto and 2003 UB313 (temporary name). More "dwarf planets" are expected to be announced by the IAU in the coming months and years. Currently a dozen candidate "dwarf planets" are listed on IAU's "dwarf planet" watchlist, which keeps changing as new objects are found and the physics of the existing candidates becomes better known."
Yeah, apparently there may be 50 such object (dwarf planets) in the solar system -\
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Hello All
Actually astronomers have conterversily approved new guidlines under which Pluto is no longer defined as aplanet
Pluto no longer a planet
August 25, 2006 1200am
PLUTO was stripped of its status as a planet overnight when scientists from around the world redefined it as a "dwarf planet", leaving just eight classical planets in the solar system.
With one vote, toys and models of the solar system became instantly obsolete, forcing teachers and publishers to scramble to update textbooks and lessons used in classrooms for decades.
?Pluto is dead,? Mike Brown of the California Institute of Technology bluntly said on a teleconference.Discovered in 1930 by the American Clyde Tombaugh, Pluto has traditionally been considered the ninth planet, farthest from the sun in the solar system.
However, the definition of a planet approved after a heated debate among 2500 scientists from the International Astronomical Union (IAU) meeting in Prague drew a clear distinction between Pluto and the other eight planets.
The need to define what is a planet was driven by technological advances enabling astronomers to look farther into space and to measure more precisely the size of celestial bodies.
Mr Brown added impetus to the decades-old debate on the definition of a planet when he discovered UB313 in 2003. Xena, as it is nicknamed, is larger than Pluto, instantly creating a buzz over whether a new planet had been discovered.
The scientists agreed that, to be called a planet, a celestial body must be in orbit around a star while not itself being a star.
It must be large enough in mass for its own gravity to pull it into a nearly spherical shape and have cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.
Pluto was disqualified because its oblong orbit overlaps with Neptune's. Xena also does not make the grade of being a planet, and will also be known as a dwarf planet.
?It's an issue mainly for the public, not really for scientists. Some people may be upset, but we've long regarded it (Pluto) as a minor planet,? said Richard Miller of the University of Chicago.
The new definition - the first time the IAU has tried to define scientifically what a planet is - means a second category called ?dwarf planets?, has been created, as well as a third category for all other objects, except satellites, known as small solar system bodies.
?We are just defining a new class of planets and I think it's very appropriate. We are finding more planets in our solar system, and some are larger than Pluto,? said Philip Diamond, a professor at the University of Manchester and a delegate attending the IAU meeting.
?I think what we have done is a good thing, we have actually expanded the number of planets in our solar system, but just spread them over two categories.?
From now on, traditional planets will be restricted to eight Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.
Meanwhile, the widow of Clyde Tombaugh said he would have understood why his discovery was demoted to non-planet status because he was a good scientist.
?Clyde said, 'Well, it's there. You can do what you want with it',? Patricia Tombaugh, 94, said from her home in Las Cruces, New Mexico.
Her husband, who discovered Pluto while working at the Lowell Observatory in Arizona, was disappointed and frustrated when scientists began questioning its status.
But, she said ?Clyde would have said, 'Science is a progressive thing and if you're going to be a scientist and put your neck out, you're apt to have it bitten upon'.?
Mrs Tombaugh said a tiny amount of her husband's ashes were on a spacecraft bound for Pluto.
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Dear all,
Just to share. Sometimes in 1981, I have read a book written by one muslim astronomy scientist by the name of Bapak Nazwar Syamsu, from Surabaya, Indonesia. His book causes controversy, especially amongst traditionalist muslims in that region.
I just give some examples of his writings- He said there are actually 10 planets namely, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto and the last one he named in SIdratul Muntaha or Planet Muntaha already stated in the Quran. The 10th planet is very big, green in color is the last in our solar system. That planet is where Adam came from. He said Adam is not the first man created, because there are thousands of Adam before him. Proof, he said, when ALLAH wants to create Adam as a khalifah on Planet Earth, every angels reject the idea. The angels said, there will be more bloodshed on Planet earth. This statement by the angles proof that there are some killings happening somewhere. When one of the angels who happen to be Iblis, reject God's command, so he and Adam were transferred from Planet Muntaha to Planet Earth.
- Professor Nazwar Syamsu, also said the story of Israk Mikraj, that we use to hear were baseless only Israilliyat stories. He said how come Moses instruct Muhammad back and forth to reduce the solat time. All stories were wrong. Muhammad actually he said, during Israk Mikraj really have a journey through space, but not on a bird, but on a Buraq some transportation that have the speed of light towards Planet Muntaha. Muhammad actually never meet other prophets wha happen to have been dead for many many years ago. He return back to earth.
- The painful after death, example beaten by Munkar Nakir in the graveyard, never happen. After death, everything stop, our feelings stop, so how can we feel pain. He said all these stories after death were baseless and non-quranic.
- He said Jesus, have no tomb on Planet Earth, but he was instructed by God to travel to space and never return back. He is dead already in other planets. The story of Imam Mahdi is also baseless.
I don't know if some of Indonesian readers here have heard of him.
Just to share information.
Wassalam.
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Dear all,
Just to share. Sometimes in 1981, I have read a book written by one muslim astronomy scientist by the name of Bapak Nazwar Syamsu, from Surabaya, Indonesia. His book causes controversy, especially amongst traditionalist muslims in that region.
I just give some examples of his writings- He said there are actually 10 planets namely, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, Pluto and the last one he named in SIdratul Muntaha or Planet Muntaha already stated in the Quran. The 10th planet is very big, green in color is the last in our solar system. That planet is where Adam came from. He said Adam is not the first man created, because there are thousands of Adam before him. Proof, he said, when ALLAH wants to create Adam as a khalifah on Planet Earth, every angels reject the idea. The angels said, there will be more bloodshed on Planet earth. This statement by the angles proof that there are some killings happening somewhere. When one of the angels who happen to be Iblis, reject God's command, so he and Adam were transferred from Planet Muntaha to Planet Earth.
- Professor Nazwar Syamsu, also said the story of Israk Mikraj, that we use to hear were baseless only Israilliyat stories. He said how come Moses instruct Muhammad back and forth to reduce the solat time. All stories were wrong. Muhammad actually he said, during Israk Mikraj really have a journey through space, but not on a bird, but on a Buraq some transportation that have the speed of light towards Planet Muntaha. Muhammad actually never meet other prophets wha happen to have been dead for many many years ago. He return back to earth.
- The painful after death, example beaten by Munkar Nakir in the graveyard, never happen. After death, everything stop, our feelings stop, so how can we feel pain. He said all these stories after death were baseless and non-quranic.
- He said Jesus, have no tomb on Planet Earth, but he was instructed by God to travel to space and never return back. He is dead already in other planets. The story of Imam Mahdi is also baseless.
I don't know if some of Indonesian readers here have heard of him.
Just to share information.
Wassalam.
peace
I know where he got that poppycock from http//www.sitchin.com/
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Peace Message114,
I'm Indonesian, and I've never heard of this Nazwar Syamsu person . And as knowledgeable brother Magi has pointed out, his views are a bit nonsense, but his non-hadith explanations might be similar to ours.
Btw, if you're Indonesian also, check out our regional thread at the Asia/Middle East section if you haven't already.
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I dont understand why are we bent upon proving edip wrong ... come on guys it is so easy to criticize and find faults, Researchers on the cutting edge do not always turn out to be right every time . Unless one has the capability and courage to venture in the region of unknown ,there is virtually no chance for one to score a hit, where as in this case ,his chances are very bright WHAT God knows, the scientists only discover
If the ayat was only meant to be pointing towards yousaf's brothers, i think God could have used the word NAJAM( which means star) in this ayat ,and it would not have made any difference ,but when he said kokab , he meant it , to serve another purpse as well , specially when in those times people could not differentiate between the two . quran has multiple quoting of the word NAJAM , but very few (probably 3) of KOKAB...AND KOKAB MEANS KOKAB and now we know what it means , not back then
When creator says 11 planets, well they are and i have no doubts about it , the only issue i am worried is , weather planets are total 12 , like 11 brothers plus yousaf (11 planets and the earth )or GOD is telling us the total number as 11?
sikandar
