Was the World Created for the Prophet?
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Assalamu Alaikum Brothers and Sisters in Islam,
Brother Andy gave us an interesting link in another thread where this was posted
guys last night i had a conversation wih my friend who now i come to know is a pure quranist. he said they they dont believ in the prophet(PBUH&HP) much and he said that prophet(PBUH&HP) said that i m leaving one thing wioth you just hold on it tight and u will never get strayed . he said that quran is enuf for all muslims and msulims should not consult with hadeeth (Any hadeeth) coz a lot of hadeeths are temperd and funnily he remembered and believd in oly those hadeeths whcih were related to the three first caliphs of muslims .he said that sunnat of prophet(PBUH&HP) is not to be followed coz the molwees(scholars) have temperd it too for their own interest. i told him that prophet(PBUH&HP) was the cause of creation of this world he said no i dont believe in it and it is all lies coz it is not written in quran
i just wanted to kno from u guys is it really not that prophet(PBUH&HP) was the cause of creation of this world
and another thing i heard the hadeeth that prophet(PBUh&HP) said that i m leavind two important things in u one the quran and the other my ahle bait .isnt this the hadeeth but i was real surprised that he alsoa said that "aal" does not mean ur progeny but it means followers and thats y abu bakr was a in aal-e-muhammad(PBUH) wat is this i want ur comments on this plz comment on thisI remember reading Hadith regarding this and also those even more specific to the Shia belief regarding 5 people the Prophet, 'Ali, Fatimah, Hasan and Husayn in relation to creating the world for.
Now in my belief, the Prophet was the best human being regardless of Hadith or not for a few reasons but mainly for the fact he was the one honoured (or it could be viewed as a weight as well) with the seal of prophet hood.
Being what is considered as Ahl-al-Bayt myself I cannot come to the Shia belief of being infallible either in the case of myself or my ancestors, because at the end of the day we are all human beings.
However, this is not the point I'm trying to get at, the point is in this whole belief that the world was created for the Prophet, which perhaps insinuates that the prophet was created 'first' and the Earth 'later'.
There are two issues here
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If there is any kind of truth in these hadith regarding this issue, what must have occurred in the before-time (the time before our birth here on Earth) to the soul of the Prophet to have such an elevated position of having the Earth created for him.
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If we take the belief that there pretty much no kind of reliable origin to these hadith is this then one of the most obvious, or should I say direct forms of Shirk - the other forms being more or less more indirect with the Sunni and Shiah having less outrageous explanations for them.
So basically, I would like to know your views, if any, on these two specific points...
Salam
Peace bro
I only read your comment in this thread and as a quick reply, the hadith above is total non sense and contradicts many verses in the Quran
for example the verse where the prophet said "He does not know what Allah is intending to do with him and all humans", another one where Allah said to Mohammad "Inak mayet wa inahum maytoon", and many more that clearly show that Mohammad was a human like us with no other prefrences but he was a prophet and the seal of the message sent before the JD
I believe the hadith is injected by satan and his followers as he is trying hard for 1400 years to corrupt our religion as he did with the others, clearly the hadith has no outcome but to raise the prophet in a level that Allah never intended to put him in
the verse about the prophet "Inaka La Ala Khulqin Azim" is enough of a testamant that the prophet with a great example to all humans to follow
Salam
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Peace Bros
To think that I used to believe that hadith as the truth, ie that the world was created for the Prophet, and all that because I was reading Al Quran behind the veils of hadith and superstition...
I do find some hadith very informative in the way to conduct certain affairs, but now I reserve the right to follow them or not.
Also I do not accept anymore the Hadith as binding as far as legislation is concerned, which means that Sharia based on Hadith is unacceptable in my view.
Salat was practiced by teaching it from elder to young, and was finally recorded by the four scholars (Imam Hanbal, Malik, etc), it has nothing to do with Hadith, but since it became a fashion to try and prove everything using Hadith, scholars decided to reference Salat using Hadith... But the base line for it as for everything else is Al Quran...
Salam -
Peace,
God said He created us to serve HIM. So it clearly cannot be created for the Prophet. And the cycle of the earth comes before God breathed His Ruh into mankind. So the Prophet could not have excisted before the earth.
God said the earth is created fot men, to manage it properly as He teachs men. God sends Prophet when the management of men and earth do not conform with Ad Deenul Islam.
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Peace,
3660 does not at all refer to a past life. This refers to that through humanity's excistence on earth, messengers were send that conveyed to not follow shatain. This refers to that most people on earth have heared about this from old stories and revelations. Almost all traditions around the world carry this warning.
As for 7172, the translation you present is not correct. Rashad has used this translation to acknowledge his view on why we are here.
And when/if your Lord took/received from Adam's sons and daughters from their backs their descendants, and He made them witness/testify on themselves. "Am I not your Lord (E)?" They said "Yes/certainly, We witnessed/testified." That You say (on) the Resurrection Day "That We were about this ignoring/disregarding ."
And your Lord took for the children of Adam from their backs, their progeny; and He made them witness over themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." Thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection that you were unaware of this.
This refers to the progeny of men have all witnessed that God is their Lord, as God has sent messengers to ALL nations with the message. <snip>
Peace bro arnold,
The conversation in Q7172 clearly indicate to a direct witness between God and the children of Adam. There's no ambiguity in the words choosen by God in the message. And there's no indication of third party involvement in the conversation. It's simply a direct conversation between God and Men. Hence the conversation can only take place in the previous world before we were sent down to this temporary world for our redemption.
Peace.
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Peace,
God talks to us directly through the Quran and has talked to mankind in earlier revelations. And we must answer directly to it. God says in the Quran also that He is the only Rabb, and we acknowledge that directly. So again this is about earlier revelations given to messengers before and the Quran. You only have to look at the first chapter of the Quran, or some verses of older books. Everywhere it is God saying that He is the only Rabb, and by hearing or reading the revelations, we can never say we were not warned.
BISMILLAHIR RAHMANIR RAHIM With the Glorious Name of Allah, the Source of Instant and Eternal Beneficence and Mercy Who embraces the entire Universe in His fold, nourishing and taking care of all things for what they are meant to be, just as a mother's womb nourishes the embryo without any returns.
11 All Praise is due to Allah, the Eternal Source of Life of the Universe and everything therein.
12 The Source of Instant and Eternal Beneficence and Mercy Who embraces the entire Universe in His fold, nourishing and taking care of all things for what they are meant to be, just as a mother's womb nourishes the embryo
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without any returns.
13 He is the Absolute Owner of the Day when all creation shall have completed their journey of existence, evolution and action to the Ultimate Just outcome. And He is the Supreme Appointer of the Way of Life that mankind may live by in order to attain success in both lives - and this System will most certainly prevail in this world. The Divine Law of Returns takes mankind to the Day of Final Judgment in His Court to account for all they did with the gift of life. This is a Day whose advent is beyond any doubt.14 (Realizing these facts), we affirm to obey You and we ask You to help us (as we do that).
15 Guide us to the Straight Path, that leads us to real success as individuals and nations, - (by providing us with the faculty to listen and not just hear, to observe and not just see, and to analyze and not just blindly follow 1736.)
16 The Path of those upon whom You bestow the blissful benefits deriving from conscious obedience to Your Commands. (247, 3120)
17 Not of those who earn the bitter consequences of rejecting Your Commands, nor of those who fail, by deviating from the Road. (261, 7152, 2969, 3769-71, 4523, 615)"Hear O Israel The Lord our God, is One. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your mind and with all your strenght."Mark 1229,30
"O men, by Me, the Resplendent Protector, is covered the face of the Eternal Cause, the matter. The Spirit yonder in the sun, that spirit dwelling there am I. I am vast like the atmosphere, Greatest of all merit, action and nature am I. Om is my name!" Yayur Veda 4017
"He came as the first Fashioner; brightness mingled itself with the lights. He, the pure creation, He upholds the soul with his understanding; Thou causest both to increase, in heavenly way, O Mazda Ahura, Thou who art also now the Lord."Gatha's 17
These are just some examples, but everywhere it is God talking to us directly, and when i read or hear it, i witness it, i acknowledge it, i have no excuse on the Day of new Creation that i have never known that God is the Lord.
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Peace bro Arnold,
I do not argue that God communicate with human by means of Pen - Q964. The whole scriptures sent to humankind are the manifestation of communication between God and human. But certain ayats written in the Scripture is to explain the event that indeed took place in reality.
Examples are the Histories of Moses. Conversation between God and Moses did take place in reality and this is recorded as history in the Great Reading. The same thing in Q7172. The event did take place. It is not an allegorical descriptions to show the previous mankind had all received scriptures as a means to witness God. Otherwise God won't say things like "Am I not your Lord?" They said "Yes, we bear witness." It's simply a real conversation that has taken place somewhere. And for me, it's referring to the previous world before we came to this world.
Peace
p/s And this has nothing to do with my conviction on RK.
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'Peace,
Who says it is allegorical? I talk to you through this post as much if i would have stood in front of you. Writing doesn't make any less 'talking' as i had used my voice. And your interpretation is based on a personal interpretation which i don't agree with, as there is a much more logical approach to this verse. So this verse is no direct proof at all, only if you follow your interpretation, then yes. But it is no conclusive proof.
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And do not think Allah to be heedless of what the unjust do; He only respites them to a day on which the eyes shall be fixedly open,
Note unjust = dholim = musyreek, who abides to other laws than His.
And your Lord never destroyed the country until He raised in their metropolis an apostle, reciting to them Our communications, and We never destroyed the towns except when their people were unjust.
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Peace Arnold,
Your refs from another Scriptures (Mark 1229,30, Yayur Veda 4017, Gatha's 17) are all in the form of monologues and yet to be seen is the reply from the receivers of the message. God commands mankind to do so and so. period. But this has to be distinguished from what Q7172(dialogue) is telling us.
There's a distinct difference between witnessing/believing in God's revelations and witnessing God Himself. In Q7172, whether you are 1 month, 1 year, 10 years or 100 years old (every children of Adam) they all have witnessed this. Immaterial even if you are born in deep jungle and left alone until your death. And by your understanding of witnessing God through Scriptures, are this group of people (that hasn't got the chance to read the scriptures) are not the Children of Adam?
Appreciate for your further clarification.
Peace.
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Peace,
When experiencing this creation, most people when thinking enough, will see a single source. The universe itself is a conversation between us and God in which He says I'm your Rabb. And by witnessing it, we say We are witnessing it. This is perfectly told in the story of Abraham, where through observing Reality, he came to the conclusion that God is the only Rabb. As for societies who haven't had a scripture prophet, please read this
"The early man had little knowledge how nature worked and why, except what he himself could experience, out of this the feeling of mystery must have emerged. The feeling there is a true reality behind this life. This is how the concept of divinity, of the transcendent, a universal Good, bigger that the human and nature, a source of nurture, a ruler on destiny. This concept of power, of a Creator, in the sense of that is everything, a power of the higher and this reality must have come about. In our language it resembles the Transcendent and Immanent. If this can be seen as 1 God, as most researchers think, can not be proven of course. But it is certainly true, that in our days, with the cultures who don't use writing, and resembles early man in a lot of ways, like the use of oral tradition. That with these cultures, it is a common believe that there is only one highest god, one creator, and next to this god, they have to deal with lower spiritual beings as totems, cultural heroes, ancestors and local gods. But this god, sticks out with head and shoulders above all of these lower powers. For most it is a vague, and and incomprehensible power. That in their eyes doesn't intervene in daily life. So this is why they use their idols to ask help. When cultures grew, this aminism developed into polytheism. But in the background, this highest god always remained, although it was ignored. This faith, or rather understanding developed back in to monotheism as it is to be found in the scriptual faiths of today. So after a long route the highest power always prevailed. The concept of religion, has to be traced back in the faith of a holy power that goes beyond this universe, and supports it. It could be that this wasn't given no form, and stayed a vague term of providence, as a creating and recreating force, working in food, sex, fertility, birth, death and the changing of seasons. When this view, that this force exists, found it's own life in different aspects and functions, this developed into spirits, ghosts and idols, with each its own tasks.
It reappearing throughout the whole history of mankind. The remerging of faith in every fase of cultures and religions since prehistoric times, gives a clear indication that it is something that is a spontaneous part of man itself. It is an expression of a feeling and thinking man is born with, not so much an outcome of observation and knowledge of the universe and nature. Without a doubt did this develope into the monotheisms of today, in the God as only creator and sustainer of all things. Far from that polytheism developed into monotheism, does the evidence show that the concept and knowledge of the universe, while it grew developed different gods and powers over time, while the highest being turned into a vague figure, that didn't intervene, and was hidden in the mists of animism and polytheism and the absolutism of Hinduism and in the far east." Gerben J.F. Bouritius Lector in the fenomology of religions and faiths of the Theological Faculty in TilburgThe concept of one God can be found with 99% of all cultures on earth. Although His importance of position in their faith is different with every culture. He is acknowledged as the only true Rabb by almost all cultures on earth. When studying traditions of even the most remote culture, the Creator single over-all ruler God is always present.
As for the verses i gave from other scriptures, i just picked some here and there. I can look up many in the single person where God directly speaks to mankind. But it is not only through revelation. The universe itself is a conversation between God and mankind.