Salam,there is a physical salat
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salam....kinda true..but that does not mean we cannot physically prostrate rite?
salam -
Peace be upon you Matinbhagat,
salam....kinda true..but that does not mean we cannot physically prostrate rite?
salamCorrect, you can get on the ground if that is your preference, all I am saying is that the God does not command anyone to physically prostrate, so if one does not get on the ground, there is no wrong. My only concern is that people prostrate physically because they think they are bowing to some "object out there" they call "God", while the God is not a physcal object, but the unseen Intelligence that created all objects. We prostrate truly to that Unseen God by doing what we were created to do.
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Salaam idolfree
What type of article do you plan on writing if you reject clear and obvious evidence in the Qur'aan that there is physical prostration as part of performing Salaat? What Qur'aan are you reading, a trick Qur'aan?
Salaam
Peace be upon you Matinbhagat,
salam....kinda true..but that does not mean we cannot physically prostrate rite?
salamCorrect, you can get on the ground if that is your preference, all I am saying is that the God does not command anyone to physically prostrate, so if one does not get on the ground, there is no wrong. My only concern is that people prostrate physically because they think they are bowing to some "object out there" they call "God", while the God is not a physcal object, but the unseen Intelligence that created all objects. We prostrate truly to that Unseen God by doing what we were created to do.
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Salam,
if God can speak to moses directly...then God is indeed seperate entity from us all,he is wherever we may be...but soem ppl have this idea the soul is a a part of God,hence we are a speck of GOd...that is not logical..then God would be speaking to himself...So God is distinct from us hence makes sense to prostrate to this distinct yet omnipresent entity,the only entity that never perishes,even the word entity is not sufficient...it is out of reverence that both mind and body prostrates..as prostration is as low a human can go to show his reverence and humbleness before the God whom no mind can grasp,just because we cannot grasp God does not mean we cant prostrate to him out of reverence,we know he is omnipresent hence we prostrate anywhere,and if we dunt have a compass,we dunt even need ot face the qiblah as God does not put our worship to waste..as the purpose of salat is his remembrance rather than absolute perfection in facing any direction whatsoever...salam
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Salam,
also when i read verses about the golden calf which the people of moses made,it refers to a physical object,which he burned and threw into the sea,and the word for worshipping of the Golden calf is from the same root word as ibadah.Hence, the word ibadah,can refer to worshiping/praying and also implies a physical act very clearly,contrary to a mental one.Salam.I am not saying mental one is not impt,i am saying both the physical and mental process are impt to help maintain focus and probabl its the best to affirm our faith psychologically through the physical aspect as well,and Gow knows best hence he deemed physical aspects too.Also,to take to words rukoo and sujood as bow and prostrating as submitting to the laws of God...God already uses aslamtu,for submit,hence the words rukoo and sujood were used to also point out physical significance besides the mental submission.even when sheba and sulaiman,they fell prsotrate saying i submit to the lord of the worlds!So it means 2 different things clearly in this verse yet reaffirming the same thing,they physically prostrate and submit to God's laws as well mentally,however if sujood here means submitting to God's law,then they fell prostrate would simply be God repeating himself..they fell prostrate(meaning submitted to God's laws) and they said they submit to God's laws...well why did they say?is not saying a physical thing?Salam
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
What type of article do you plan on writing if you reject clear and obvious evidence in the Qur'aan that there is physical prostration as part of performing Salaat? What Qur'aan are you reading, a trick Qur'aan?
It will be the kind of article that you certainly are not forced to follow.
But you have just made my job more tedious as I realize now that I must include an explanation of ruku and sujood, which I sometimes forget that many have not understood yet.
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Peace be upon you Matinbhagat,
if God can speak to moses directly...then God is indeed seperate entity from us all,he is wherever we may be
The God can speak to all os us directly, not just Moses, according to this reading(quran).
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..but soem ppl have this idea the soul is a a part of God,hence we are a speck of GOd...that is not logicalNot logical? It is VERY logical. Do you understand the God to be OMNIPRESENT meaning present at every possible location? Do you realize that all of the prophets FIRST message to mankind was that of ONENESS? There is no seperation in life, it is only an illusion. The spirit(soul) is no exception. We are told all Nafs come from ONE NAFS(spirit/soul). We are all manifestations of the One God. The One manifesting through the many. All of creation is made from protons, electrons and nuetrons. When you break it all down its all the SAME ENERGY ;D
..then God would be speaking to himself...
There is ONE BEING manifesting as many. Dont you talk to your own self? Isnt there a battle going on inside of you where you struggle(jihad) with yourself saying "I know I shouldnt eat that" or " I wonder what I will wear today, maybe this...no, this looks better", etc. We are always communicating with ourselves. And what we are being informed is that we can go even DEEPER WITHIN and communicate with the SOURCE of our BEING. The CORE of our BEING that is stable, while all else moves. The God speaks to you with "enlightened thoughts and images".
So God is distinct from us hence makes sense to prostrate to this distinct yet omnipresent entity
It makes sense to hear and obey the guidance of the God. It does not make sense to get on the ground as if the omnipresent suddenly manifested in a particular direction, distinct from all other directions. If you prostrate in one direction, arent you sticking your BUTT in the God's "face" in the other direction? (If taken literally of course). And how can we prostrate to THAT which is "closer than the jugular vein"? Thats some serious bending! ;D
the only entity that never perishes,even the word entity is not sufficient...it is out of reverence that both mind and body prostrates
Do you realize that YOU are not your body? Your physical body already prostrates(hears and obeys) to the God. It grows hair and nails, it digests food, the heart beats, the skin sweats when hot, it fights viruses, etc. The Body is already submissive. It is the WILL within the body that must prostrate to the God, so that behavior changing can take place. This is what we are talking about here, not placiing the already submissive physical body on the already submissive physical earth. In fact the physical body comes from the physica earth, both are already submissive. It is the WILL which we are here to awaken and prostrate to the plan of the God.
..as prostration is as low a human can go to show his reverence and humbleness before the God
Layimg flat on your stomach would be "lower" would it not? What about digging a hole in the ground and crawling in head first, that would be "more humble" according to your presentation.
whom no mind can grasp,just because we cannot grasp God does not mean we cant prostrate to him out of reverence,we know he is omnipresent hence we prostrate anywhere
Be careful not to stick your Butt in "His face".
,and if we dunt have a compass,we dunt even need ot face the qiblah as God does not put our worship to waste..as the purpose of salat is his remembrance rather than absolute perfection in facing any direction whatsoever...salam
The "qibla" is a spiritual focus that we use to keep our behavior correct WHEREVER WE ARE because we are told to face the qibla wherever we are. It is not some black cube or any physical object that we must always face, that is impossible.
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Peace be upon you,
also when i read verses about the golden calf which the people of moses made,it refers to a physical object,which he burned and threw into the sea,and the word for worshipping of the Golden calf is from the same root word as ibadah.Hence, the word ibadah,can refer to worshiping/praying and also implies a physical act very clearly,contrary to a mental one.Salam.I am not saying mental one is not impt,i am saying both the physical and mental process are impt to help maintain focus and probabl its the best to affirm our faith psychologically through the physical aspect as well,and Gow knows best hence he deemed physical aspects too.Also,to take to words rukoo and sujood as bow and prostrating as submitting to the laws of God...God already uses aslamtu,for submit,hence the words rukoo and sujood were used to also point out physical significance besides the mental submission.even when sheba and sulaiman,they fell prsotrate saying i submit to the lord of the worlds!So it means 2 different things clearly in this verse yet reaffirming the same thing,they physically prostrate and submit to God's laws as well mentally,however if sujood here means submitting to God's law,then they fell prostrate would simply be God repeating himself..they fell prostrate(meaning submitted to God's laws) and they said they submit to God's laws...well why did they say?is not saying a physical thing?Salam
Yes, they fell into obedience, its just a way of stengthening the image.
Regarding "ibadah", that means SERVING, not worshipping.
There are many old topics that we have discussed in detail on this forum that you need to research.
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brother i have read it means serve,but i dunt quite understand how ppl served the golden calf??They obviously worshipped it.....maybe worship is a horrible english word...lol....i mean its meaning is not very appropriate....i mean we adore and reverence God..thats what i mean by worship....though the word does not convey the idea well enuff..peace bro...still awaiting your article..
Salam
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Peace be upon you,
brother i have read it means serve,but i dunt quite understand how ppl served the golden calf??
Golden CALF. Calf is an animal and animals symbolize emotions. The Golden calf was the emotion they all served.
Like lust, people do not worship lust, the serve it by indulging in it.
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salam i disagree..the quran says the golden calf was burned and thrown into the sea....hence it is not an emotion but a physical object.Salam
7148
Khalifa
During his absence, Moses' people made from their jewelry the statue of a calf, complete with the sound of a calf. Did they not see that it could not speak to them, or guide them in any path? They worshiped it, and thus turned wickedclearly it is a statue...salam bro
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, that is to say they devised a firm belief. That is what the statue represents. Saying "It emitted sound" tells us of the ENERGY side of this equation (energy in motion/emotion). This "golden calf" was MOVING THEM to act in a certain way as all emotions do.
To clarify, a belief = though + energy. All thoughts are not beliefs. Beliefs MOVE YOU because there is energy involved.
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aslm brothers handshake
physical prostration helps u concentrate.
in quran also talks about bowing down and some translations on bowing says bending the knees or something similar. i have no doubts in this,there is a physical prostration.
all muslims do it,not the majority...and also,allah knows best,but salat might make u straighter,like exercise like,and maybe if scientists would put like electrode things those sticky things on the muscles and see how it reacts...
aslmualaykm handshake -
Salaam Kyle,
But you have just made my job more tedious as I realize now that I must include an explanation of ruku and sujood, which I sometimes forget that many have not understood yet.
I don't think you should put the non-physical explanation of these two concepts in detail. As I believe we already have abundant information in this forum and there's already an article in the main site about this. Just a simple explanation should do the job I think, then you can refer to another article for a full discussion.
I suggest you focus on the programming of the nafs. Because as the way I see it, that's the "meat" of your article.
Just a suggestion. I'm waiting ;D=adley=
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Peace be upon you Adley,
Yes, I will only briefly go over the prostration piece, give just enough to allow the reader to research it in detail. Thanks for the advice.
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Hence, the word ibadah,can refer to worshiping/praying and also implies a physical act very clearly
Not necessarily. People do speak to their statutes and ask them for help and mercy, and even present them with offerings. Remember the story of Abraham with the statutes? He put the hatch on the shoulder of the biggest and claimed to his people that he was the one who destroyed the others, just to show them that he could do nothing of what they were asking him to do. When you idolize something or someone, you do not necessarily prostrate physically, but you obey what your fantasies tell you he/it desired. This is completely different from 3ibaadati-llah. In fact 3ibaada is more of obedience than worship.
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Peace be upon you Samia,
In fact 3ibaada is more of obedience than worship.
Exactly!
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Salaam Idolfree
As Soon as you release your non-Islaamic article, twisting the clear meaning of Al Qur'aan, let me know so that I can analyze it.
Salaam
Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
What type of article do you plan on writing if you reject clear and obvious evidence in the Qur'aan that there is physical prostration as part of performing Salaat? What Qur'aan are you reading, a trick Qur'aan?
It will be the kind of article that you certainly are not forced to follow.
But you have just made my job more tedious as I realize now that I must include an explanation of ruku and sujood, which I sometimes forget that many have not understood yet.
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Salaam
That Arabic word means both "worship" and "serve" and "slave". Many people who know Arabic will agree with this. But of course they will disagree with it meaning worship because they are watering that tenant of Islaam down. Remember you are talking to a guy (such as idolfree) who does not see physical prostration in the Qur'aan, that alone should tell you something. When you get a chance if you haven't yet, analyze Ahmed's thread on physical Salaat, he provided some good info.
Salaam
brother i have read it means serve,but i dunt quite understand how ppl served the golden calf??They obviously worshipped it.....maybe worship is a horrible english word...lol....i mean its meaning is not very appropriate....i mean we adore and reverence God..thats what i mean by worship....though the word does not convey the idea well enuff..peace bro...still awaiting your article..
Salam