Salam,there is a physical salat
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Peace be upon you,
Yes, I also hold the understanding that there is a specific action to be done regarding "salaat". I do not agree with the traditional bowing down on the ground, but I understand salaat as meditating in order to reprogram your spirit(nafs), the part of your being that carries out automatically your thoughts. Therefore one must be STILL, not moving. Interestingly enough, the goal of life is to be at PEACE in the face of any situation. The Hindus call this NIRVANA , meaning not-moving.
Salams,
I would agree that aqimusalaat is an order to uphold and maintain our spirituality and link to Allah
and it is done via zikr...regards,
Khurram Chaudhry
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Peace be upon you Andy,
Just to clarify, I am not debating that salaat does not have a physical aspect to it, I am only saying that the traditional bowing and getting on the ground is not the physical part of it. Even with meditation, one must breathe in a slow rythmic manner, etc.
A lot of times we the discussion against the traditional salaat turns into "non physical", which is not really the argument. Just wanted to clarify that.
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
As Soon as you release your non-Islaamic article, twisting the clear meaning of Al Qur'aan, let me know so that I can analyze it.
Why would I bother myself with your arrogance and emotionality? No Thanks.
Peace to you.
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Peace idolfree1,
Peace be upon you Andy,
Just to clarify, I am not debating that salaat does not have a physical aspect to it, I am only saying that the traditional bowing and getting on the ground is not the physical part of it. Even with meditation, one must breathe in a slow rythmic manner, etc.
A lot of times we the discussion against the traditional salaat turns into "non physical", which is not really the argument. Just wanted to clarify that.
Thanks for the clarification. I would like to hear your understanding pertaining to the physical aspect of salat. Also the programming of nafs, it sounds interesting to me.
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Peace be upon you Andy,
Thanks for the clarification. I would like to hear your understanding pertaining to the physical aspect of salat. Also the programming of nafs, it sounds interesting to me.
I am glad that you are interested in hearing more about my position, I am working on an article that is taking me longer than expected, but once it is done I will put it here for all to view and debate.
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Salaam idolfree
You have said
"I am only saying that the traditional bowing and getting on the ground is not the physical part of it."
You still reject the main physical position of Salaat which is decreed by Allah.
It is true that your mind and spirit has to be intune when you perform Salaat. The position of prostration is one of the most important aspects of Salaat. Prostrating with your head to the ground before Allah with all sincerity is one of the humblest position one can be in before their Sustainer (Allah). We can see physical evidence of prostration as part of Salaat in Al Qur'aan and you will turn around and reject that and write it off as though its some aspect of traditional Islaam. Prostrating and the observance of Salaat goes all the way back to ancient times, thus, it did not begin with the traditional Muslims who call themselves Sunni & Shi'ite. This prescribed form of worship (Salaat) was decreed from the Source of all that exist, which is Allah. So Salaat and all its positions and the utterences we say and the decreed times or specific times we have to observe it is all from Allah and no traditionalist.
Salaam
Peace be upon you Andy,
Just to clarify, I am not debating that salaat does not have a physical aspect to it, I am only saying that the traditional bowing and getting on the ground is not the physical part of it. Even with meditation, one must breathe in a slow rythmic manner, etc.
A lot of times we the discussion against the traditional salaat turns into "non physical", which is not really the argument. Just wanted to clarify that.
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The word Allah is incapable of translation. It is not a common noun meaning a god or even God. It is a proper noun par excellence.
You just translated the untranslatable.???
The word connotes all the attributes of perfection and beauty in their infinitude, and denotes none but the One True and Unique God, the Absolute, Supreme, Perfect, Tender, Mighty, Gracious, Benign and Compassionate.
Holy Sh**!!! -* (http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzHlMs2rSIM)
The English word God, which is ?the common Teutonic word for a personal object of religious worship applied to all superhuman beings of heathen mythologies who exercise power over nature and man (EBr. X. p. 460), and which primarily meant only ?what is invoked? and ?what is worshipped by sacrifice? (SOED. I. p. 80, is hardly an approximate substitute.
The Arabic word illah or Allah applies to the same English connotation of a god or God, both denoting common and proper nouns. On the same lines I believe, allat or Allat is a goddess or Goddess (please correct me if I'm wrong). Although, it seems that we do have gender forms, I have not encountered the plural form of illah or allat in Arabic, as in gods or goddesses. Perhaps who knows that there does exist the Arabic plural form of illah or simply the lack thereof. I won't be suprised if all other languages carry both gender and plural forms of their deities.
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Qur?aan 5319
'Afara'aytumu Al-Lta Wa Al-`Uzz?
Have you considered Lat and UzzahRead Qur?aan 5319-23 and you will see that those are fabricated names created by the hands of men, which Allah never authorized.
?These are but names that you made up, you and your forefathers. Allah never authorized such a blasphemy. They follow conjecture, and personal desire, when the true guidance has come to them herein from their Lord.? - (5323)
Salaam Danish
You have said
?On the same lines I believe, allat or Allat is a goddess or Goddess (please correct me if I'm wrong?
I would love to have the honor to correct your misguided Christian self. When you mention the word ?allat? I believe you were referring to Qur?aan 5319. First of all that word there is pronounced in Arabic as ?Lat? not ?Allat?, the ?alif? in front of ?Lat? is silent when you recite it in Arabic-Tajwiyd beginners course 101. This right here sounds like your typical, misguided Christian argument. It is sad to say that your so-called pagan Christian authorities have lied and also brain washed you over the years. The name ?Lat? or as you want to pronounce it as ?Allat? does not predate the original name of the Creator ?Allah?, in other words Danish ?Allah?, the original name was here long long long long before the man-made concoction and manipulation of the Arabic word in your quote up above. The name Allah goes all the way back to the ancient Aramaic/Sytretic Arabic scriptures and this was long before the Qur?aan was revealed; this long before Muhammad was born. Danish how on earth can you take a Johnny-come-lately name to derive a feminine of Allah. It does not work that way. Every body knows that man has invented names, concocted names throughout history and example of this is ?GOD? & ?JEHOVAH?, just to name a few. Arabic was a dominant language during ancient times and yes men also have concocted/invented names of the Creator Allah in Arabic which has nothing to do with the original Arabic word ?Allah?. Danish you cannot use some term invented (after the name ALLAH) by the hands of men and apply that as some governing force of GRAMMAR over the original Arabic word ?ALLAH? again which predates or came before ?Lat or Allat as you say? to derive a feminine.
You have failed in your attempted to derive a feminine of Allah and you have not produced any evidence from Al Qur?aan to derive a plural of Allah, a masculine of Allah and this is a CHALLENGE to you!! This is what Allah tells us Muslim to say to you Christians
Qur?aan 2111
They said, ?No one will enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian!? Such is their wishful thinking. Say, ?Show us your proof, if you are truthful.?So Danish (the Christian) Produce your proof if you are truthful!!
Below is another one of your fallacies
?The Arabic word illah or Allah applies to the same English connotation of a god or God, both denoting common and proper nouns.?
This is not true, this is only your wishful thinking. We all know how the term ?GOD? can be and has been tampered with, diluted and altered and the GRAMMAR that governs the English language reinforces the fact that term ?GOD? is inferior in all respects to the original and pure language of Arabic. That bast_ _ _ language ENGLISH and its composition is not synonymous with the Arabic composition which goes back to ancient times. Arabic is original, English is made up of several languages and came into existence in recent times in terms of history if you know what I mean.
In English ?GOD? can be made a feminine, example GODDESS
In English ?GOD? can be made a plural, example GODS
In English you can change the letter ?g? into a capital or a small case
In English the term ?GOD? itself can be used in a masculine sense, it can be used for human beings, mythical gods, idols, just to name a few.
This cannot be done to the original name ALLAH, which all of the Prophets used. Danish for all we know ?GOD? may be an acronym for ?GOOD ORDERLY CONDUCT?. If you reverse the name you can spell ?DOG?. You need to research the history of this term ?GOD? to comprehend the greek pagan, atheistic origins and then you will see for yourself that such term could not be applied or used as a substitute for the original and proper name of the Creator ALLAH. There is no scripture in existence that even uses the word ?GOD?, the Prophets that walked the earth never heard of that term.
http//www.freewebs.com/suprememathematics/allah.htm
Salaam
The word Allah is incapable of translation. It is not a common noun meaning a god or even God. It is a proper noun par excellence.
You just translated the untranslatable.???
The word connotes all the attributes of perfection and beauty in their infinitude, and denotes none but the One True and Unique God, the Absolute, Supreme, Perfect, Tender, Mighty, Gracious, Benign and Compassionate.
Holy Sh**!!! -* (http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzHlMs2rSIM)
The English word God, which is ?the common Teutonic word for a personal object of religious worship applied to all superhuman beings of heathen mythologies who exercise power over nature and man (EBr. X. p. 460), and which primarily meant only ?what is invoked? and ?what is worshipped by sacrifice? (SOED. I. p. 80, is hardly an approximate substitute.
The Arabic word illah or Allah applies to the same English connotation of a god or God, both denoting common and proper nouns. On the same lines I believe, allat or Allat is a goddess or Goddess (please correct me if I'm wrong). Although, it seems that we do have gender forms, I have not encountered the plural form of illah or allat in Arabic, as in gods or goddesses. Perhaps who knows that there does exist the Arabic plural form of illah or simply the lack thereof. I won't be suprised if all other languages carry both gender and plural forms of their deities.
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Easy danish. The plural of ilah is alihatun...This word is used in the quran,as is ilahayn which means two gods...
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Peace be upon you Al Khidr,
You still reject the main physical position of Salaat which is decreed by Allah.
There is no physical position given as instruction excpet for stillness, unless you are in danger and must "salaat" while walking or riding. I'd like to see how you prostrate on your forhead while riding a horse or a Volvo
It is true that your mind and spirit has to be intune when you perform Salaat.
Salaat is the process of 'getting in tune' so you can reprogram your spirit.
The position of prostration is one of the most important aspects of Salaat.
Yes, prostration of your will to God's will.
Prostrating with your head to the ground before Allah with all sincerity is one of the humblest position one can be in before their Sustainer (Allah).
"before" Allah? Where is Allah? Please point to "Him". Also realize that if you take the God to be physical then while you are "bowing before" God, you are also sticking your butt in "His" face at the other end.
We can see physical evidence of prostration as part of Salaat in Al Qur'aan and you will turn around and reject that and write it off as though its some aspect of traditional Islaam.
I write off the traditional teachings because they are false. When one reflects on the signs as we are told to do, one gains insight and wisdom and will realize that one cannot physically prostrate to the UNSEEN. Especially when many verses are illogical if you make prostration physical.
Prostrating and the observance of Salaat goes all the way back to ancient times, thus, it did not begin with the traditional Muslims who call themselves Sunni & Shi'ite.
I dont care how far one might trace it back, its still not what is being shown to us. However, if you choose to get on the ground to meditate and reprogram your spirit, thats fine, but realize that the seated posture is better to align your respiratory system and that you are not bowing before the God who is not an object, but instead bowing to the SUN or MOON(physical objects representing day and night).
This prescribed form of worship (Salaat) was decreed from the Source of all that exist, which is Allah. So Salaat and all its positions and the utterences we say and the decreed times or specific times we have to observe it is all from Allah and no traditionalist.
You go right ahead. I am seeking the correct guidance. I will not stop you from what you want to do.
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Peace be upon you Andy,
Well ...I am here not to debate ...I am here to listen to all views and follow the best of it.
Agreed. That is what we must do. But in the process of listening to all views, we must bounce them off each other to weed out the truth from falsehood. Thats what hajj(debate) is all about.
There is a verse in this reading(quran) that says "there shall be no arguing(jidala) in the debate(hajja)".
So dont confuse the two concepts, arguing and debating We are here to debate so that we can rule out the different views and be able to follow the BEST of it, how wil we know which is BEST without putting it to the test? But when it goes too far and we argue, then we must back away and restore peace. Do you agree with that?
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Peace be upon you idolfree1,
Peace be upon you Andy,
Agreed. That is what we must do. But in the process of listening to all views, we must bounce them off each other to weed out the truth from falsehood. Thats what hajj(debate) is all about.
There is a verse in this reading(quran) that says "there shall be no arguing(jidala) in the debate(hajja)".
So dont confuse the two concepts, arguing and debating We are here to debate so that we can rule out the different views and be able to follow the BEST of it, how wil we know which is BEST without putting it to the test? But when it goes too far and we argue, then we must back away and restore peace. Do you agree with that?
Actually I don't quite understand what is the difference between arguing and debating but I think I have nothing to disagree with you at this point.
Do you mean verse 2197?
2197 The Pilgrimage is in the months which have been appointed. So whosoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage in them, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor vileness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage (jidaala fee alhajji). And any good that you do, God is aware of it; and bring provisions for yourselves, though the best provision is righteousness; and be aware of Me O people of understanding.
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Peace andy
Actually I don't quite understand what is the difference between arguing and debating
My 2 cents to debate would be to explain your viewpoint while staying open to its eventual reevaluation. to argue would be to engage in a discussion without the intention or possibility of changing your mind when substantial arguments against your points are presented. To argue would be just to defend your point of view for the sake of your own ego, not for a better understanding.
Sometimes the two are hard to tell apart though
lk
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Peace Elke,
Peace andy
Actually I don't quite understand what is the difference between arguing and debating
My 2 cents to debate would be to explain your viewpoint while staying open to its eventual reevaluation. to argue would be to engage in a discussion without the intention or possibility of changing your mind when substantial arguments against your points are presented. To argue would be just to defend your point of view for the sake of your own ego, not for a better understanding.
Sometimes the two are hard to tell apart though
lk
Thanks for your 2 cents Elke
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Peace be upon you Andy,
Yes that is the verse. And I agree with Elke's two cents as well
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From me, 2nd time
It is not Allah; it is allaha verb.
Reply, 2nd time
Alaha goes all the way back to Aramaic or Syretic Arabic and it is Allah, thus it?s the same word. Repeat Alaha is the same word as Allah. Remember the original Qur?aan that was revealed does not have vowel points and when you remove the vowel point like in the original Qur?aan Allah is spelled either Alaha or Alah, again it?s the same word. It does not matter if you use a capital ?G? for that Greek pagan term ?God?, its still not nor can be equal in no sense to ALLAH. Remember even if you use the capital ?G? that does not remove the pagan origins of the word and the word still can be altered and made into a feminimm, plural, etc. etc. regardless if you use the capital or not, unlike the original name Allah
brickwall
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Salaam
On the same lines I believe, allat or Allat is a goddess or Goddess (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Correction Allat is not derived from Allah, and thus it is not the feminine form, nor is it the feminine of anything. "ilaah" is god; "ilaaha" is goddess.
Why? The letter "haa" is original in ilaah or Allah, but does not show in Allat. Secondly, the "taa" at the end of Allat is not the feminine marker "taa marbuta" because this one is silent unless followed by a vowel (as in Samia ), which is not the case when Allat is pronounced, with the taa always pronounced as well.First of all that word there is pronounced in Arabic as ?Lat? not ?Allat?, the ?alif? in front of ?Lat? is silent when you recite it in Arabic-Tajwiyd beginners course 101.
In fact you do not need any Tajweed course to drop the alif from "al" in any Arabic word. This is an Arabic rule. If you want to say "and the university" you should say "wal-jaami3a" not "wa al-jaami3a". And it is Allat not Lat, in writing, and is pronounced Allat when not preceeded by any other word or preposition.
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Easy danish. The plural of ilah is alihatun...This word is used in the quran,as is ilahayn which means two gods...
Thanks enquirer. This will help me out in many ways discussing relevant "godly" issues. )
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Hello Samia,
On the same lines I believe, allat or Allat is a goddess or Goddess (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Correction Allat is not derived from Allah, and thus it is not the feminine form, nor is it the feminine of anything. "ilaah" is god; "ilaaha" is goddess.
Why? The letter "haa" is original in ilaah or Allah, but does not show in Allat. Secondly, the "taa" at the end of Allat is not the feminine marker "taa marbuta" because this one is silent unless followed by a vowel (as in Samia ), which is not the case when Allat is pronounced, with the taa always pronounced as well.If Allat is not a feminine form, then what form is it? How did Allat become a "daughter" of Allah and a "proper name" of a deity (a goddess)?
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Salaam Danish
Sorry if my sentence was not clear to you. I did not say it is not a feminine noun, but I said it is not the feminine form of Allah nor of ilaah. Not all feminine, or masculine nouns have a mirror form in the opposite gender. For example, "7ayaa(t) life" is not the feminine form of "7ay alive, masculine"; it does not have a masculine opposite. The feminine form for "7ay" is "7ayyia".
Allat, I suppose, is a proper noun, and I think it is known by other names in other regions.