Is the Salat physical?
-
Peace Ahmed, Samia
Yes indeed I second that, but I do not think metaphorists (whatever that means because I do no yet figure out what the word really means to them) will ever be close to Allah to feel what you are talking about (Khushu'u), and unless you feel it, you will not be compelled to totallly submit, which includes prostrate to the Most High... -
Peace Bro (or Dude?) FJ
I am an educator, so I try to find any resource to help me in my profession.
Unfortunately I also suffer from a mental illness (manic-depression) so my interest in psychiatry and neurology.Read bro read and I hope God helps you with your suffering.
Smile dude (bro?), its good for your health sun yay rotfl
Well, I am the kind of a person that burst into laughing very easely, so I smiled and laughed very much throughout my life. Yesterday I had a my imune system tested and it turned out weak
Everyone of you here is making sense but I cannot tell which one of you is right ???
... I incline a little bit towards physical explanation and, knowing the scientifically proven benefits of meditaion, I also like the non-physical.... whatever ??? ??? ???Peace
FJ -
Peace FJ
Yes laughter is good for your immune system. I also suggest (if you can afford it) Selenium supplements and Vitamin C.
I never said do not Meditate. But we cannot just live in our head. Worship is both mental and physical.
Now who are we worshiping? Allah.
Who revealed the Al-Quran? Allah.
We claim that we follow the Al-Quran alone? Yes.
So let us do it, how? Follow the instructions in the Quran.
Salat is well explained in Quran? Yes.
Do what we are told, perform Salat? Yes.
Is Salat physical? According to Al Quran, Yes...
Do It!
Salam -
... I incline a little bit towards physical explanation and, knowing the scientifically proven benefits of meditaion, I also like the non-physical.... whatever ??? ??? ???
Peace
FJHello mate
But the meditaion is already ordered to us many times in the Quran, why you are mixing it with Salat?
Cheers
-
Salaam Phoenix1
Can only true believers feel this? if so, what about the rest? what are we supposed to do to feel that?
For your first question I would say yes. It is an active action, just like the reading/reciting during salaat, it has to be active and you should understand what you are saying. God forbids us from salat if we are in a state in which we cannot comprehend what we are saying. i understand from this that He does not want mechanical uttarance (or movements).
What I said above would cover your second question. No one can tell you what to do in order to "feel" in a specific way.
Salaam FJ
knowing the scientifically proven benefits of meditaion, I also like the non-physical
How is meditation "not physical"? I do not find it very different. Strangely enough, you have to wash before it and even wash your mouth and nostrils to prepare for that (from a book I read to learn how to meditate). You have to stay still, control your thoughts and concentrate on what you are doing. Stay still is physical, isn't it?
I am not a refernce in meditation, but I used it for sometime and I would sleep half an hour through it!! Was I doing it the wrong way? At the time it was very good for me, as I was very stressed, and it offered me extra hour or two of calm sleep.
-
I thought they mean by meditation, the rememberance of Allah
well, if not then the Quran didn't order us to meditate
-
Peace all
This is why it is important we know what each other means, because we might be at each other's throat for no reason, or the opposite we should be at each others throat for a good reason rotfl yay
Anyways to be serious, yes indeed meditation has not been ordered by Allah. However it intersects with remembrance of Allah if your focus while you meditate is Allah. You might call it an improved state of remembrance in this case, as you focus your attention solely on dhikr - (probably what Muhammed (pbuh) was doing just before he received the first revelation).
Meditation is about calming the mind by focusing on something, such as your breathing... You also let go of your inner voice and judgements by just letting thoughts and noises wash over you... You could also repeat a word to yourself that soothes you such as "Calm" or "Peace".
It has been found scientifically that there are numerous health benefits mental and physical for doing that.
It has also been found that Prayer is even more powerful in these matters!
I use meditation to regulate my breathing, especially when I am on the verge of having an anxiety attack, and it usually works for me, the word I use is "Astaghfiru Allah"... while I am exhaling and "Alhamdulillah" while I am inhaling....
By the way, Samia, you do not need to wash to perform meditation as it is not a religious ceremony...
But the origin is religious from Buddhim and Yoga...
Salam -
Peace FJ
Yes laughter is good for your immune system. I also suggest (if you can afford it) Selenium supplements and Vitamin C.
I never said do not Meditate. But we cannot just live in our head. Worship is both mental and physical.
Now who are we worshiping? Allah.
Who revealed the Al-Quran? Allah.
We claim that we follow the Al-Quran alone? Yes.
So let us do it, how? Follow the instructions in the Quran.
Salat is well explained in Quran? Yes.
Do what we are told, perform Salat? Yes.
Is Salat physical? According to Al Quran, Yes...
Do It!
SalamVery well said brother... My eyes are opening but very slowly. .
Ahmad wrote
Hello mateBut the meditaion is already ordered to us many times in the Quran, why you are mixing it with Salat?
Cheers
Bro AB I know the meditation is mentioned in Quran but isn't Idolfree sugesting that Salat is Meditaion?
Samia wrote
How is meditation "not physical"? I do not find it very different. Strangely enough, you have to wash before it and even wash your mouth and nostrils to prepare for that (from a book I read to learn how to meditate). You have to stay still, control your thoughts and concentrate on what you are doing. Stay still is physical, isn't it?Stayin still is physical but I think what we are talking here is about body movements, not stillness. What about sleep is it physical because one lays down and closes the eyes?
Peace
FJ -
never said do not Meditate. But we cannot just live in our head. Worship is both mental and physical.
Now who are we worshiping? Allah.
Who revealed the Al-Quran? Allah.
We claim that we follow the Al-Quran alone? Yes.
So let us do it, how? Follow the instructions in the Quran.
Salat is well explained in Quran? Yes.
Do what we are told, perform Salat? Yes.
Is Salat physical? According to Al Quran, Yes...
Do It!peace Noble,
I disagree with FJ here. Not very well said at all. You are assuming that salat is perfectly clearly described as a ritual. It's not. You said "Do It!" My question is, do what???
No one is living in their heads.
What I'm saying is that the PHYSICAL (our actions) are a result of our SPIRITUAL state. A person cannot ride a bicycle unless one first LEARNS to ride one. A goalie cannot dive for the ball instinctively unless he has learned and practiced it. A person who thinks cockroaches are gross will never eat one.
What we do is a reflection of what is inside us.
So first, we must change what is inside us to change what we do. That's a fact.
How do we change ourselves? how do we go from bad to good, rejector to believer? we observe SALAT.
We do not worship anything. God is not a person who wants to be loved and have his ego stroked.metaphor
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
metaphor /mtfr, -fr/
noun- a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in A mighty fortress is our God.
- something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.
"prostrate" is a metaphor in the quran
124 LO! Thus spoke Joseph unto his father "O my father! Behold, I saw eleven stars, as well as the sun and the moon I saw them prostrate themselves before me!"
suns and moons prostrating?? wtf?? please explain.1315 And before God prostrate themselves, willingly or unwillingly, all that are in the heavens and on earth, as do their shadows in the mornings and the evenings.
all things and their shadows too?1649 For, before God prostrates itself all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth - every beast that moves, and the angels these do not bear themselves with false pride
2218 ART THOU NOT aware that before God prostrate themselves all that are in the heavens and all that are on earth the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and the beasts? And many human beings , whereas many will inevitably have to suffer ; and he whom God shall scorn will have none who could bestow honour on him for, verily, God does what He wills.
556 prostrate themselves the stars and the trees
and look at this
62 He it is who has created you out of clay, and then has decreed a term - a term known to him. And yet you doubt
CLAY?????????
Humans are definitely NOT made of clay. Is the Quran wrong, or worse, a metaphor o????? -
peace AB,
I will skip the questions you asked of me that can be easily answered by actually reading the article I referenced.
There are very few things that dont have a physical dimension considering our body is the vehicle that we use to do stuff. For example, in that case I could say "physical ibadah", "physical zakat", "physical sadaqat"... it just doesn't sound right, or at least not to me.
Great, for many it sounds perfect sense according to the Arabic Quran
For many it sounds perfect? I have never heard someone say "physical zakat" or "physical sadaqat". Perhaps you can provide evidence for this apparent perfect sounding phrasing.
I didn?t use 2945 to prove that salat is physical, I only used it to prove that it is something else to Zikr Allah
Let me quote what you said after referencing 2945 (emphasis mine)
Therefore Salat is a physical action and includes Sijood
Please bro, be straightforward and explain to me, I know the story well, what is your point?
My point is that the references I cited are examples of those younger than 40 (although no specific age is given for Joseph, its unlikely he was older than 40).
And lastly, if you wish to accuse me of twisting signs/ayatin, at least have the courtesy to point out exactly what I apparently "twisted" rather than making a vague reference.
Wakas
-
peace Samia,
For your first question I would say yes. It is an active action, just like the reading/reciting during salaat, it has to be active and you should understand what you are saying. God forbids us from salat if we are in a state in which we cannot comprehend what we are saying. i understand from this that He does not want mechanical uttarance (or movements).
so you are saying that we are to say nothing during salat? maybe I didn't get you.
What I said above would cover your second question. No one can tell you what to do in order to "feel" in a specific way.
Let's go by the rule that if we do good, we feel good.
what if we aren't used to doing good? how do we change ourselves? I think that's where salat comes in. For us to change what is in our hearts so that we can change our actions and thus our self. -
phoenix1
I would appreciate that when we quote thw Quran, we dont use rude words, your wtf is disrespectful...
It would have been much nicer if you used your own words to define a metaphor, as I am still very unclear by what you mean.
All the verses you quoted are not metaphorical, even the one where Joseph made a dream, because he did see exactly that in his dream. But Joseph asked his father the meaning of the dream. If his father were to give him the meaning, and if it were used in a conversation as an example of what it means then it would have become a metaphor in the conversation exchange.
See how I am nice to you, explaining to you what you yourself are not wanting to clarify.
So again what do you mean by metaphor?
And everything that is in the heavens and the earth prostrate to Allah willingly or unwillingly. That was stated as a fact and is a fact.
I am not giving any more hints.
Have a nice day... -
peace Noble,
It would have been much nicer if you used your own words to define a metaphor, as I am still very unclear by what you mean.
I think dictionary.com was pretty clear. I'll give you an example. If I say "the sun and moon prostrate to God."
Now you can take that literally. But it doesn't make sense since we have already verified that the sun and moon do not prostrate literally to God. So the only possibility is to take "prostrate" as a metaphor. The phrase can mean that the sun and moon obey God's laws. As you already know, people use metaphors all the time to explain things. The quran does the same.
The dictionary definition also had an example. "A mighty fortress is our God." Some people will take that literally and start worshipping a fortress. But I, and other sane people, would take that as a metaphor to mean that a mighty fortress is very important/helpful/necessary for survival/a 'must have.'All the verses you quoted are not metaphorical, even the one where Joseph made a dream, because he did see exactly that in his dream.
But Joseph asked his father the meaning of the dream. If his father were to give him the meaning, and if it were used in a conversation as an example of what it means then it would have become a metaphor in the conversation exchange.
See how I am nice to you, explaining to you what you yourself are not wanting to clarify.reading things like the above is what makes me say words like what the fuck!!!!!!!!
just kidding, of course.
What you are doing above (and I'm sure that you are aware of this) is twisting the meaning to make it seem "literal."
But please explain what the description of the sun and moon literally prostrating to God (no matter how ridiculous that may seem) teaches us? what is the message? what is the lesson? (please don't avoid this question too, it is important)
Is the quran just a bunch of non sensical stories (invisible beings made of smokeless fire?), scientifically incorrect information (clay, anyone?), made up historical accounts (solomon), wierd rituals (prostrating, reciting magical incantations, starving yourself, etc),
or is it a book of GUIDANCE with examples and metaphors to help us understand?And everything that is in the heavens and the earth prostrate to Allah willingly or unwillingly. That was stated as a fact and is a fact.
I am not giving any more hints.what fact??? what does that mean? heavens and earth prostrating? Please explain how the "heavens" and earth prostrate to God. Please.
The real fact, and we all know this, is that the earth cannot possibly prostrate literally to God. But I'll be happy to hear your explanation.
And please don't give me any more hints. I didn't ask you for any. I just asked you, with respect and sincerety, to answer my questions and explain your position.
So no more hints, if you want to give me answers, just give them to me clearly.
