Is the Salat physical?
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peace matinbhagat,
I never argued that salat is not physical. I just said we need not bow and prostrate to change ourselves for the better.
We do have empirical evidence of how people's behavior can change through hypnotism and meditation.
But then again, there is no "ritual" for salat because there is no one correct method. It is the EFFECT that counts. So as long as what you are doing as "salat" is making you a better person, then you are on the right track.
I believe that meditation fits the quran better than other understandings, but you see something different. And as long as your salat and my salat is accomplishing it's purpose, then obviously there should be no further arguments.
So is there something you want to change about yourself? of course.
So why don't you verify your version of salat? test it to see if it works. If it does, then great. If it doesn't, you need a better understanding of what the quran means by salat, or the quran itself is wrong.
We are to look at all views and follow the best. -
Mister noble,before you address folks as naive please understand that i am fully aware of the many different 'brands' of jihadists,you must also be aware that there are many jihadists who do pray physically five times a day as well and still maintain their misguided campaigns of violence...I suggest you look to your own insight before making apologist statements to defend the physical salat you hold so dear,which is in fact just a cult ritual for many muslims...
Phoenix is right,folks should do what works for them,but the powers that be in islam are not yet sufficiently evolved yet to understand this and so persist in their dogmas,fictions and meaningless rituals...
ps; i dont deny that some may get benefit from physical salat and rituals and thats perfectly fine for some,just dont expect everyone to do these rituals as a duty......No complusion in relgion hey??!! -
Peace be upon you Noble,
As a moderator I must ask you to refrain from statements such as "stupid" and "naive". That is not the character of one devoted to the God's path and I must warn you that it will not be tolerated. Lets please continue the conversation peacefully or end it peacefully.
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Peace idolfree1,
As a moderator, I think you are pretty biased as you deleted twice a comment I made that maybe you follow more the Bhagavad Gita than the Quran...
And naive is not derogatory at all...
I see that you feel very strongly about your interpretations, and I feel very strongly about the Truth...
Have a nice day
and please do not delete this again, thank you... -
Peace be upon you,
And you say I deleted them because? Sorry, I have not deleted anyones post. Just make sure you heed the warning.
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Peace idolfree1,
please dont hurt me
oki i edited out the "stupid" word from the post.
Mr enquirer
There is no compulsion in religion indeed, so conversely one also respects others' wishes to follow their understanding of the Scripture, also one does not over-indulge him/her/self into leading others to follow one's interpretation.
Astalasvegas as they say in Nevada whatever
Addendum And since when an atheist can give advice on what to follow in matters of faith? huh... -
I repsect anyones right to practice whatever faith they want as long as it doesnt infringe on my freedom or the freedom of others or cause harm...
ps; also,remember,you or anyone else dont have a monopoly on the interpretations or on the truth... ) -
Peace Phoenix1,
Have a look at two books written by a Dr Herbert Benson, "The relaxation response" and "Beyond the relaxation response". In these two books he demonstrates satisfactorily using scientific studies the benefits of Meditation, and in the second book he further demonstrates that ritual prayers are even more powerful to achieve long lasting changes in an individual.
May I also add that any prayer will only have beneficial effects if it is approached in the right frame of mind and mood.
I am very aware that within the muslim community people pray ritually just to be seen by their brethren as doing it, this defeats the purpose of it.
They might probably not even pray in private... -
Peace be upon you Noble,
Let me state that the power of BELIEF is indeed very powerful and can certainly make changes. Thats why there are some people in all "religions" that are successful, but it is Hit or Miss because they dont really understand the SCIENCE of behavior shaping. They just have times where one emotion is so strong that it allows them to change. Meditation is a system that one can cultivate to make the changes happen everytime, not hit or miss.
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Peace be upon you idolfree1,
I use meditation and have used it for over thirty years. The way the ritual Salat is conducted adds a physical dimension to it, not unlike tai chi.
May I also remind you that dhikr is meditation, where you use as mentra some scriptural wording which you repeat over and over, it is indeed very meditative in nature.
Allah has left it for us to decide what is most appropriate in our circumstances (as far as non ritual prayer is concerned).
In any event I have never seen someone approaching meditation who is not ready for a change...
You have to be ready for a change to be able to change. Like the alcoholic, if he does not acknowledge he has a problem, he will never be able to do something about it.
As for the ritual prayer, so many people have been brought up with it, so look at it as an imposition, so no wonder they will resist it.
They do not look at it as a device to get closer to their Creator, furthermore they do not know much about their Creator as they do not read the Quran...
Have a nice life dude -
I though only allah was master in islam mister!
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Peace be upon you Noble,
I use meditation and have used it for over thirty years.
Excellent. However many people when they speak of meditation only speak of going into a deep trance state for relaxation, lower blood pressure, etc. Most do not enter that state , then use the verbal thinking and imagination to run through scenarios that will change the automatic responses.
The way the ritual Salat is conducted adds a physical dimension to it, not unlike tai chi.
I wont disagree to that, but the God wants us to be STILL, because that will get us to the deepest trance. Thats why in emergencey when can do it while moving(walking , riding) , but ordinarilly we must be STILL. We cannot relax totally if we are still in motion.
May I also remind you that dhikr is mediation, where you use as mentra some scriptural wording which you repeat over and over, it is indeed very meditative in nature.
I agree.
Allah has left it for us to decide what is most appropriate in our circumstances (as far as non ritual prayer is concerned).
In any event I have never seen someone approaching meditation who is not ready for a change...
You have to be ready for a change to be able to change. Like the alcoholic, if he does not acknowledge he has a problem, he will never be able to do something about it.
As for the ritual prayer, so many people have been brought up with it, so look at it as an imposition, so no wonder they will resist it.
They do not look at it as a device to get closer to their Creator, furthermore they do not know much about their Creator as they do not read the Quran...
Have a nice life dudeI didnt understand what you were saying here at the end. It is not necessary to keep ending posts with "have a nice life" if we would not be talking anymore. Please refrain from getting angry, this is only a discussion between us to see if we can come to a better understanding. As moderator I had to give you a warning about he words you were using. Do not let that build a barrier between us where we cant continue to discuss.