The non-muslims of the forum
-
Peace
I notice how Enquirer says we should all be allowed to say whatever we want on this forum and be anyone should be able to post whereever they want, and then says any ideas cited to help this forum would be used only to limit peoples freedon and create division, however Enquirers very first suggestion about this thread discussing this issue was" what a useless thread, i say to delete it" that sounds hypocritical to me.
We must say wathever we want if wathever we say respect our interlocutors. It's not always what we can see these last months.
Inch'allah tomorrow will be better group
Peace
-
Peace
Enquirers very first suggestion about this thread discussing this issue was" what a useless thread, i say to delete it" that sounds hypocritical to me.
that wasn't Enquirer's but another user.
Sometimes I've thought if I should have 'non muslim nor any other reliigon' or something like that as signature but I never decided it.
-
So, in conclusion, I once again would add, I know where you're coming from and hopefully these things will get resolved soon and for the better.
How do you think these things will get resolved?
Peace
-
How do you think these things will get resolved?
Peace
Well, if there is an destructive influence around the forum, the rules as they are, deal with them. It won't be as immediate as one would like but with some patience, those influences will get kicked out of the forum for good. Some learn quite quickly when just reminded and some just fade away from posting entirely. The ones that are a pain are the ones that consistently don't learn how, when or what to post and we do need a bit of patience for such types to enforce the rules fairly. Even if we know they are troublemakers, we can't pre-emptively jump the gun on them but go through due process and when the rules are well and properly breached. Some latitude is given in certain circumstances but the eventual end does tend to come about, either by their own choice (voluntarily accepting the rules and going by them or quitting) or by us (banning and the disciplinary process).
As for those that don't believe as you put it and still post, yet do so courteously and sincerely wanting to learn (it can be gauged with emperical evidence of their posting and that is a judgement we all can and most of the times do make regardless of the said/touted beliefs of the poster), I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to post their questions or viewpoints on different boards. If they are interfering inadvertently (without intending to), a polite reminder that it wasn't the point or direction of the thread (maybe another thread should be made for their queries) should be enough for them to take heed. Normally, such types do not interfere with discussions unless they think it's not unwelcome.
I would like to add another note to my paragraph above regarding believers etc. I do think that God is the ultimate judge but some people have an issue that they confuse. This issue is of someone being destructive and causing fasad and being censured for it mixed up with 'we must not judge people as only God judges'. Yes, God will judge what a person's intentions are and where/what he deserves etc etc. That is not to say that we should not judge the merits of a post and make a call based on that, that yes, someone is being destructive regardless of whatever they say their beliefs are. Parallels/analogies can be drawn up on these circumstances but they are besides the point. Everyone should say what they need to say, what they think is the truth with a caveat. It should be done so keeping the rules in mind which do not discriminate between people with differing beliefs as long as they back up their claims and post about them politely and respectfully. So what if someone telling us the earth is hollow and UFO's have their bases there, I still think they're loony but they should tell me so in a nice way and not push it in my face constantly and I will overlook their deficiences, maybe even agree with them that aliens can only be bald ;D
Peace
-
As for those that don't believe as you put it and still post, yet do so courteously and sincerely wanting to learn (it can be gauged with emperical evidence of their posting and that is a judgement we all can and most of the times do make regardless of the said/touted beliefs of the poster), I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to post their questions or viewpoints on different boards. If they are interfering inadvertently (without intending to), a polite reminder that it wasn't the point or direction of the thread (maybe another thread should be made for their queries) should be enough for them to take heed. Normally, such types do not interfere with discussions unless they think it's not unwelcome.
I agree.
see http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6933.msg104753#msg104753Peace
-
Advocating a different belief consistently coupled with breaking the rules, namely #2 and #7 shall be construed as destructive behaviour, just like anyone doing anything consistently while breaking the rules (calling people names while mocking their understanding of the quran and not being able to back up one's claims). I think the rules we have cover such destructive types. Since if a poster tries to advocate christianity like Apple Pie did while mocking other's beliefs and not being able to back up his claims (one can see the pages upon pages of threads in which he would refuse to acknowledge or answer rebuttals), they are going to be kicked or if a poster consistently uses fallacious logic in different threads and on top of that starts insulting the other's who disagree with him get kicked (case of #2, #3 and #7 used alternatively). Peace.
-
Peace of Allah be upon all of us..
What I would suggest is making this forum an open forum And Start another Censored forum which will evolve Progressively. Members of that forum can be Selected after Strict scutiny. That forum should contain only People who have accepted Quran Alone Islam. And Discarded the Ritualistic Traditional Ways.Members can be selected to that Forum only if Invited by an Already existing member.
Let the Discussions about Verses and Quan Run basically in that Forum without any interruption from distracting Posts. So that people interested in Reading and Understanding do not get Confused. about the View point of Freeminds.
Important Threads can be copied from this forum to that. But Subsequent Posts to that Forum should be done only by Selected Memebers.
Peace
Shabeer -
Salam all.
The people who register in this forum generally do that because they have liked the articles in the main page and want to know more.
But it the people they dial with in the forum do not subscribe to what is written in the main page, they can only be confused.
If they wanted to talk with atheists, they would have choosed another forum.Exactly.
-
Brother J.M,
With you're superb knowledge of the quran, I'm puzzled as to why you are suggesting this kind of segregation.
Yes, it does add to confusion, but that's the same kind of confusion we are taught to handle by the quran.
Suppose there is a discussion going on about what Al-Quran says about a particular topic, but what AQ(al-quran) says doesn't sit well with the non-believer, so he comes in and says "well, Koran isn't the word of God anyway". Now of course AQ teaches to handle this kind of confusion, but then the discussion will go off-topic.
Brother, this 'confusion' argument is the same kind of argument that get's us kicked out of secterian forums. And it's the same argument that got Aristotles killed! Brother, please reconsider.
JM wasn't asking to kick non-believers out of the forum, but instead to direct them towards the Critical Examination of Islam section where they can criticize and question AQ's divinity all they want, and don't do it all over the forum in irrelevant threads.
It is not the same with the sectarian forums. The sectarian forums don't want their members to know that the term "Quran alone" even exists, thats why we get kicked out of there. On the other hand, in this forum the non-believers have been provided with an entire section to post their questions and criticism.
-
peace
Suppose there is a discussion going on about what Al-Quran says about a particular topic, but what AQ(al-quran) says doesn't sit well with the non-believer, so he comes in and says "well, Koran isn't the word of God anyway". Now of course AQ teaches to handle this kind of confusion, but then the discussion will go off-topic.
True. BUT, sometimes the questioning of the Quran's "divinity" can be relevant to a thread not in the "appropriate" sections. It may be so that a certain passage might make more sense if looked at from a different point of view according to the poster. As long as it doesn't turn into a quran is from god vs quran is not from god argument.
The same goes for any sunnis or shias who decide to join.
If a person says "the quran isn't from god so everything you people are talking about is useless." that is irrelevant and stupid, not to mention disrespectful. But if a person says "if we assume for instance that the quran is not from god, this situation makes much more sense (followed by explanation)..." that to me is perfectly fine and constructive.What I would suggest is making this forum an open forum And Start another Censored forum which will evolve Progressively. Members of that forum can be Selected after Strict scutiny. That forum should contain only People who have accepted Quran Alone Islam. And Discarded the Ritualistic Traditional Ways.
That is a bit hypocritical if you are in favor of free and open minds. Why allow only people of certain beliefs into a forum? so much for "free minds" eh?
If your gripe is the lack of respect members show each other (almost all of whom are quran aloners of course), then we don't need another forum to do that.
You can request to have one-on-ones. Or request that only certain members post in the thread since their view is all you care about at the moment or you want to debate with them. Or you can ask one of our mysterious moderators to be extra strict with off topicness and rudeness (some of my posts would certainly get deleted then). I don't know why no one does that. -
Suppose there is a discussion going on about what Al-Quran says about a particular topic, but what AQ(al-quran) says doesn't sit well with the non-believer, so he comes in and says "well, Koran isn't the word of God anyway". Now of course AQ teaches to handle this kind of confusion, but then the discussion will go off-topic.
peace
True. BUT, sometimes the questioning of the Quran's "divinity" can be relevant to a thread not in the "appropriate" sections.If the discussion is about what Al-Quran is saying then questioning its divinity is NEVER relevant.
It may be so that a certain passage might make more sense if looked at from a different point of view according to the poster.
If members wanted to look from the different point of view, they would have joined some other forum or would have discussed it in the 'Quran Divinity' section.
As long as it doesn't turn into a quran is from god vs quran is not from god argument.
It always turns into that argument. In fact, that is what the "different point of view" actually is.
If a person says "the quran isn't from god so everything you people are talking about is useless." that is irrelevant and stupid, not to mention disrespectful. But if a person says "if we assume for instance that the quran is not from god, this situation makes much more sense (followed by explanation)..." that to me is perfectly fine and constructive.
That is just as irrelevant, stupid and disrespectful. Will Al-Quran only make "more sense" when assumed for instance that it is not from God? What after that instance? Al-Quran will not make sense anymore? Thats non-sense.
Besides that, assuming that the book is not from God will not change what it is actually saying.